Why are some interpreters not being honest with the text involving Daniel 9:27?

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jeffweeder

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Jesus became the Perfect Sacrifice for the remission of sin, for all time. But that is ONLY for those who believe on Him, and NOT for the non-believer.
Of course.
Time is running out for the unrepentant.

Acts 17
30 Therefore God overlooked and disregarded the former ages of ignorance; but now He commands all people everywhere to repent [that is, to change their old way of thinking, to regret their past sins, and to seek God’s purpose for their lives], 31 because He has set a day when He will judge the inhabited world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed and destined for that task, and He has provided credible proof to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”
 

Eternally Grateful

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Jesus has already atoned for their sins and the rest of the worlds.
Many Israelites have already repented and had their sins washed away.
The very foundation of the church is Israelite.

Acts 17
30 Therefore God overlooked and disregarded the former ages of ignorance; but now He commands all people everywhere to repent [that is, to change their old way of thinking, to regret their past sins, and to seek God’s purpose for their lives], 31 because He has set a day when He will judge the inhabited world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed and destined for that task, and He has provided credible proof to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

Rev 21
9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven final plagues came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a vast and lofty mountain, and showed me the holy (sanctified) city of Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, 11 having God’s glory [filled with His radiant light]. The brilliance of it resembled a rare and very precious jewel, like jasper, shining and clear as crystal. 12 It had a massive and high wall, with twelve [large] gates, and at the gates [were stationed] twelve angels; and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were written. 13 On the east side [there were] three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb (Christ).

Heb 12

18 For you have not come [as did the Israelites in the wilderness] to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to gloom and darkness and a raging windstorm, 19 and to the blast of a trumpet and a sound of words [such that] those who heard it begged that nothing more be said to them. 20 For they could not bear the command, “If even a wild animal touches the mountain, it will be stoned [to death].” 21 In fact, so terrifying was the sight, that Moses said, “I am filled with fear and trembling.” 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels [in festive gathering], 23 and to the general assembly and assembly of the firstborn who are registered [as citizens] in heaven, and to God, who is Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous (the redeemed in heaven) who have been made perfect [bringing them to their final glory], 24 and to Jesus, the Mediator of a new covenant [uniting God and man], and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks [of mercy], a better and nobler and more gracious message than the blood of Abel [which cried out for vengeance].

The Unshaken Kingdom​

25 See to it that you do not refuse [to listen to] Him who is speaking [to you now]. For if those [sons of Israel] did not escape when they refused [to listen to] him who warned them on earth [revealing God’s will], how much less will we escape if we turn our backs on Him who warns from heaven? 26 His voice shook the earth [at Mount Sinai] then, but now He has given a promise, saying, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth, but also the [starry] heaven.” 27 Now this [expression], “Yet once more,” indicates the removal and final transformation of all those things which can be shaken—that is, of that which has been created—so that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, and offer to God pleasing service and acceptable worship with reverence and awe; 29 for our God is [indeed] a consuming fire.
Non of this proves your point

Your like the others. You have your context all screwed up.. it’s not about Jesus, it never was. Read daniels prayer, you will get the context..
 

Eternally Grateful

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There's only one individual identified as a prince in Daniel 9.

He is Messiah.

He came, more than 2,000 years ago.

His Everlasting Covenant began with those who believed on Him in Israel, for seven years.

The abomination of desolation was the Roman armies. Luke 21:20. Yes, Messiah did commit them, to be His servants of judgment and destruction upon Israel in 70 AD. You've got that right.

There's no antichrist to be seen. The word does not exist in OT Hebrew.

Except via imagination or hallucination.

Like yours and Davy's.
Lol

You just proved my point for me

Good day..

Continue in your Belief system (or shoudl I call it unbelief?)
 

covenantee

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Lol

You just proved my point for me

Good day..

Continue in your Belief system (or shoudl I call it unbelief?)
Glad we agree on something. :laughing:

Recognizing Christ in prophecy is unbelief?

Only in an antichrist unbelief system.

Still waiting for one name from the historic orthodox true Christian Church who denies that fulfillments by Christ at Calvary are in Daniel 9:24.

Why the delay? :laughing:
 
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jeffweeder

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You have your context all screwed up.. it’s not about Jesus, it never was. Read daniels prayer, you will get the context..
Who else can bring atonement and right standing with God? Is there any other way?

God answered Daniel's prayer in the most wonderful way imaginable by promising them Jesus who bore their sins once and for all and brings them into a right standing with himself.
 

jeffweeder

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Who else can bring atonement and right standing with God? Is there any other way?

God answered Daniel's prayer in the most wonderful way imaginable by promising them Jesus who bore their sins once and for all and brings them into a right standing with himself.

Without Jesus once and for all Atonement, there would come a time of falling away from the Lords favor yet again under the old arrangement with more exiles to follow probably. Year after year the merry go round. When will it ever end?

Thanks be to God through the Lord Jesus for a new covenant in his own blood once and for all, for his everlasting righteousness for those who believe.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Not at all, because the idea of Matthew 7:1 is about us NOT judging anyone to 'condemnation' in the future "lake of fire". I didn't judge you in that, and have never done that to anyone.
Yes, it is about that because He is talking in terms of condemning someone. This is just another in the long list of verses that you misinterpret.

And, you have done that. You said there was "another spirit" in me besides the Holy Spirit. Only non-Christians would be described that way. So, you ARE judging me in that way by saying things like that to me.

You simply don't understand the idea of Biblical judgment and no doubt think judgment is always a dirty word when it used both ways, condemnation of the wicked, OR the rewards handed out to Christ's servants at His future return.
Clearly, Jesus is not talking about rewards in Matthew 7:1-2.

So don't think for one moment that I cannot tell if you have actually studied God's Word for yourself by The Holy Spirit or instead just follow men's word.
I know for sure that you can't tell that because I have studied God's Word for myself by the Holy Spirit extensively for many years. Who are you to say otherwise?

Those of us that have studied God's Word and listen to The Holy Spirit can easily tell when someone like you comes along pushing men's doctrines.
You spew nothing but hot air. Again, stop judging. You are clueless.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I have been called to preach and to prophesy for nigh 40 years, it always amuses me when a "Christian" calls a brother a liar, especially when he is also in error. Jesus died after 62 plus 7 weeks or 483 years, just like the wall was finished after 7 x 7 or 49 years not sometime in INFINITY !!
It amuses me that someone who has preached for 40 years can't even acknowledge that the text indicates that the Messiah would be cut off some time after the first 69 weeks ended.

The Prophesy is about Israel repenting, not Jesus dying for all mankind's sin.
I completely disagree. The prophecy specifically mentions the Messiah being cut off. What do you think that refers to if not Jesus's death on the cross? Also, Daniel 9:24 mentions making reconciliation for iniquity. How else can that be done besides by way of the blood of Christ?

Abraham was already forgiven because he BELIEVED in the Promise (of the lamb to come). So, forgiveness was already in the cars to all who believe. You need to check yourself about calling brothers liars, what good is it (even if you were right on something, unlike this) when you come off more like unto a worldly man. Do you realize Jesus could have called all men liars? Instead when Peter cut off the ear, Jesus rebuked Satan the liar.

Chill out man, be Christ like first, that is our first calling, to be like our Master.
I'm quite chill, man. I don't need you to lecture me. You need to finally learn the truth of this matter after preaching false doctrine for 40 years.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Who else can bring atonement and right standing with God? Is there any other way?

God answered Daniel's prayer in the most wonderful way imaginable by promising them Jesus who bore their sins once and for all and brings them into a right standing with himself.
lol

Again, You have context messed up

Daniel was praying for God to remember his covenant with Israel and Abraham. By confessing his sins and the sins of the people. and asking God to not forget his people or his city

Gods answer was that 70 weeks are given to his people and his city..

Thats context.

Not jesus
 

Eternally Grateful

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I have been called to preach and to prophesy for nigh 40 years, it always amuses me when a "Christian" calls a brother a liar, especially when he is also in error. Jesus died after 62 plus 7 weeks or 483 years, just like the wall was finished after 7 x 7 or 49 years not sometime in INFINITY !!

It amuses me that someone who has preached for 40 years can't even acknowledge that the text indicates that the Messiah would be cut off some time after the first 69 weeks ended.
It amuses me that someone reads someone who stated Jesus died AFTER 62 plus 7 weeks..then accuses them of not saying Jesus died after the 69 (62 plus 7) weeks.
 

Davy

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Yes, it is about that because He is talking in terms of condemning someone. This is just another in the long list of verses that you misinterpret.

And, you have done that. You said there was "another spirit" in me besides the Holy Spirit. Only non-Christians would be described that way. So, you ARE judging me in that way by saying things like that to me.
Now you are just making up more... LIES. I have never... said anyone is going to perish at the "lake of fire". So go find evidence you white-washed wall.

As for the idea of "another spirit", that is not a condemnation to the "lake of fire". Haven't you ever read when Jesus told Peter He would be delivered up, and Peter tried to rebuke Jesus saying that, and Jesus said for Satan to get behind Him? It was because Satan was influencing Peter.


Here... you obviously have not read what Paul said here either:

2 Cor 11:2-4
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
KJV

Wow! You mean even the minds of a believer on Christ can be corrupted away from the simplicity that is in Christ? Yes, IF... they listen to false prophets.

Did you actually think that you could never be DECEIVED just because you have believed on Jesus Christ? Do you realize that Lord Jesus' first warning SIGN in His Olivet discourse to His Church was to not allow any man to deceive us?

So when I say a believer has "another spirit", what Paul warned in 2 Cor.11 is what I'm referring to. And the false pre-trib rapture theory is from "another spirit". That's why it is nowhere written of in God's Word.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Whatever . Its obvious you do not care what the word says.
Oh, really? Is that why I'm here discussing His word with people? Because I don't care what it says? Any other ridiculously immature comments you'd like to make?

I did not make anything up. My interpretation flows with the passage and the rest of scripture.
And, yet, you can't come anywhere near supporting that claim.

Yawm.. I feel like I am talking to a child.
LOL. Says the guy who foolishly claims that I don't care what the Word says. I would never say that about you because that is foolish and judgmental like a child would do. Everyone here cares about the Word says, but some here, like you, are mistaken about what the Word says.

You keep making things up in order to remain in your belief like your buddies do.
What did I make up? Nothing. Interpreting something differently than you is not making things up. Making things up is when someone denies what the word "after" means and tries to say that the Messiah would be cut off at the end of the 69th week instead of after the 69th week ended.

It says, FOR YOUR PEOPLE AND YOUR HOLY CITY.

It does not say for the messiah.
Right. It's about what the Messiah would do for Daniel's people and city. As I already pointed out.

Messiah is part of the prophecy. but he is not the purpose of the prophecy.. Thats where you make a left turn and get away from what the prophecy means
Pathetic. The prophecy is all about the Messiah. It is unbelievable to me to see any Christian not recognize that. Terrible. Please ask God for wisdom about this (James 1:5-7).

Who said they would be?

What was their sin, what was David praying for? What was he confessing?

You need to start at verse one. Not verse 24.
Daniel 9:24-27 is its own prophecy.

No it is not.. But if you want to believe that way feel free
I will. I certainly don't need your permission.

When Payul said that All Israel would be saved, that the redeemer would come out of Zion. Had not Jesus already died?
He was not saying that all of the nation of Israel would be saved at some point in the future. He was saying that all of Israel would be saved in the manner prophesied in Isaiah 59:20-21, which he referenced and paraphrased.

Romans 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27 And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”

What other covenant beside the new covenant is the one by which people's sins are taken away? There is none.

Matthew 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

People have been getting saved under the new covenant for almost 2,000 years now. So, what Paul was describing was the way in which all Israel was being saved and how all Israel will be saved going forward. Eventually, all Israel from all-time will be saved by way of the new covenant of Christ's shed blood.

But, the Israel Paul was talking about there was not the nation of Israel, but rather Spiritual Israel (the Israel of God - Gal 6:15-16).

He described Spiritual Israel here:

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Being part of Spiritual Israel has nothing to do with being physically descended from Israel or Abraham, but rather consists of the spiritual children of Abraham. The spiritual children of God. The spiritual children of the promise. All believers, whether Jew or Gentile, fit that description (see Galatians 3:26-29).

When Abraham indicated that Spiritual Israel are those who a reckoned "through Isaac", he was talking about this:

Galatians 4:25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written: “Be glad, barren woman, you who never bore a child; shout for joy and cry aloud, you who were never in labor; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband.” 28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise.

Do you see what I did here? I'm interpreting scripture with scripture. I'm allowing other scripture to dictate what Paul was talking about in Romans 11. You are not doing that. Your interpretation contradicts other scripture.

He spoke of a future event in romans 11.

Again, Your stuck on your belief system and can not open your mind..
You can make baseless accusations like this all you want, but they mean nothing. One of us is using scripture to interpret scripture and one of us is just interpreting scriptures in isolation without taking any other scriptures into consideration and without any care if you are contradicting other scripture or not.

Everlasting righteousness is speaking of the 1000 years where the world will worship him..
So, you are equating 1000 years with EVERLASTING righteousness? I think you need to learn what everlasting means.

BUT HE IS NOT SITTING ON DAVIDS THRONE!!

Davids throne is not in heaven.
Peter said Jesus is sitting on David's throne in Acts 2:29-36. Is that passage in your Bible? Should we let Peter explain how that prophecy was fulfilled or insist that it has to be fulfilled the way you want it to be?

Jesus has not yet been anointed king
Scripture says otherwise. You don't have any scripture to back up anything you're saying in your post.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Ephesians 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,

Colossians 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

He was anointed savior. the lamb of God who takes away the sin.

Learn the difference.

Non of that says he was anointed king.

Next!!!!!!!
Read the scriptures I posted above and learn. And then there will be no excuse for your ignorance.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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It amuses me that someone reads someone who stated Jesus died AFTER 62 plus 7 weeks..then accuses them of not saying Jesus died after the 69 (62 plus 7) weeks.
It amuses me that you can't see what he is actually saying, as a few others have said the same as well. He is not saying that Jesus died some time after the 69th week ended. He is saying that Jesus died at the end of the 69 weeks (placing His death within the 69th week at the very end of it) and that saying He died after the 69 weeks is a way of saying the same thing (which it is not). Just ask him and he will confirm that.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Now you are just making up more... LIES. I have never... said anyone is going to perish at the "lake of fire". So go find evidence you white-washed wall.

As for the idea of "another spirit", that is not a condemnation to the "lake of fire". Haven't you ever read when Jesus told Peter He would be delivered up, and Peter tried to rebuke Jesus saying that, and Jesus said for Satan to get behind Him? It was because Satan was influencing Peter.
If you can't see how that came across then you have even less discernment than I thought. Try to find a way to communicate more clearly if that isn't what you meant.

Here... you obviously have not read what Paul said here either:

2 Cor 11:2-4
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
KJV

Wow! You mean even the minds of a believer on Christ can be corrupted away from the simplicity that is in Christ? Yes, IF... they listen to false prophets.

Did you actually think that you could never be DECEIVED just because you have believed on Jesus Christ? Do you realize that Lord Jesus' first warning SIGN in His Olivet discourse to His Church was to not allow any man to deceive us?

So when I say a believer has "another spirit", what Paul warned in 2 Cor.11 is what I'm referring to. And the false pre-trib rapture theory is from "another spirit". That's why it is nowhere written of in God's Word.
LOL. Why are you saying something to me about the false pre-trib rapture theory? Do you think I believe in that nonsense? I have said NOTHING whatsoever at any time to indicate as such.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Who else can bring atonement and right standing with God? Is there any other way?

God answered Daniel's prayer in the most wonderful way imaginable by promising them Jesus who bore their sins once and for all and brings them into a right standing with himself.
Amen! Well said, Jeff.
 

Davy

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If you can't see how that came across then you have even less discernment than I thought. Try to find a way to communicate more clearly if that isn't what you meant.

It's not ME... that is not communicating clearly. It is YOU that is lacking in your Bible study which is why you've not understood that The New Testament gives the Church warnings against being deceived. So don't try to correct me for your lack of Bible understanding.

Mark 13:5
5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
KJV


And by the way -- those who believe man's false pre-trib rapture theory ARE... being deceived by "another spirit", just like Apostle Paul taught in 2 Cor.11.

2 Cor 11:4
4 For if he that cometh preacheth
another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
KJV
 

Spiritual Israelite

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LOL all you want, but that's not going to make your theory correct.

I'm thinking SDA holds to the theory you are trying to show that Jesus' Ministry included the final 70th week, so are you SDA?
LOL. Are you serious? You are unbelievably ignorant. Many Christians have believed that Jesus's ministry occurred during the 70th week. Not just SDA. You have a lot to learn.

SDA believes in a post-trib rapture just as you and I do. Does that makes us SDA? Of course not.

I've already shown how it is impossible for the Daniel 9 Scripture to be about Christ when it mentions the prince that shall come who destroys the city and temple, that being the Roman general Titus. From that point and to include Daniel 9:27 is all about Antichrist, Titus as a little antichrist, and the main Antichrist that's to come at the end who will place the "abomination that maketh desolate."

Thus saying that is Jesus Christ Who fulfills that latter part is truly something to LOL about, because that idea is so false, and is from the "synagogue of Satan" that hates Christ.
No, it's definitely your false interpretation that is worthy to LOL about. Or maybe to cry about. You are taking a reference to Jesus Christ confirming the new covenant by way of His death in the 70th week and making it about some future Antichrist instead. I can't even imagine a worse interpretation of scripture than that.

You've shown nothing except that you are ignorant about what that prophecy is about.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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It's not ME... that is not communicating clearly. It is YOU that is lacking in your Bible study which is why you've not understood that The New Testament gives the Church warnings against being deceived. So don't try to correct me for your lack of Bible understanding.
When did I say it didn't give warnings about that? Never. So, stop making things up.

Mark 13:5
5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
KJV


And by the way -- those who believe man's false pre-trib rapture theory ARE... being deceived by "another spirit", just like Apostle Paul taught in 2 Cor.11.

2 Cor 11:4
4 For if he that cometh preacheth
another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
KJV
Again, why are you saying this to me as if I believe in the false pre-trib rapture theory? Is that what you think I believe? Far from it.