Do you believe this is...

[MA2444]

And as I've asked you twice now what would you like to know about my God!

You're really going to make me repeat it again? I have asked you and asked you over and over and you dodge the question, by faking that your obtuse.

Jesus was raised up out of flesh - His mum was Mary and his Father, Yahweh. He was given life by the Holy Spirit ( Gods Power) and was born into the condemned line of Adam, hence why he is called the Second Adam.

Geez comes from a shortening of Jesus, which makes it a euphemism—a milder way of saying something that may be considered offensive, blasphemous, or harsh. Many other words like this (often called mild oaths or minced oaths) are formed in a similar way. The word gosh, for example, is an alteration of the word God.

So you would not answer the question. Not answering the question put forth to you is in fact an answer in itself. You wont say it. You can't say it. ou have proven the bible to be true.

Scripture tells us how to test the spirits to see if they are from God or not. SO I asked you a very specific question (3 or 4 times now, right?) and you have refused to give a direct answer to the question but instead try to go off on a tangent and tell stories and hope that will satisfy my curiosity. You dodged answering the question! Over 400 keystrokes to dodge a question that could have been answered with 2 or 3 keystrokes? That's quite the subtle effort on your part to play stupid, lol.

So if you're not stupid, then you're willfully evil. And make no mistake about it, that was an answer to me. So I got my answer and so did everyone else on this thread.

Firstly many Christians know and understand the OT does not teach fallen angel theology so that's a massive red flag to start with - you only have half a Bible lol - then you need to find an origin story for your fallen angel which we know isn't there.

So many scriptures have been posted which prove you are a liar. Genesis 6:1-4
And this:
2 Peter 2:4
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;.../KJV

Maybe you refuse to pick up your bible and read it for yourself, but your readers can sure read about it, lol!

You say there's no such thing as a Fallen Angel or an Angel who ever sinned. 2 Peter says they did very clearly. Go read it for yourself, or is theat book made of a substance that you dont like to touch? (Truth).

A lot of words here with little value to the OP? You write a lot but say little - do you know you do this?

Stop projecting yourself onto me, lol. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WROTE A 400 LETTER DIATRIBE TO DODGE ANSWERING A SIMPLE QUESTION!

I'm interested in your tone and implied use of bad language...do you swear in public? Do you find controlling the tongue a struggle and if so, what measure have you used to try and cease this bad habit? I can help here - I once cussed a lot before I came to my Lord.

Ohhh! Are you going to play the victim card now. like a woman? Can't you talk to a man like a man or does there have to be womanly games? The cracks are showing when a (supposed) man plays a victim card to another man he is talking to. No sale Boi.

Go cry to the Mods if you want. With luck they'll close down your crappy thread. Lol. Do it! I dont care. Play your victim card Lol. "He offended me sir, please help!"

before I came to my Lord.

Who is your lord? You havent told us. We already know because your words reveal the truth to us. But can you speak the words? I dont think you can...

 

[face2face]

I recall that identity being that of Morningstar .

I don't recall any reference to Daystar except for an American Christian broadcast station by that same name.

Or daystar similar meaning.

Lucifer [loo-sih-fer] (Latin for “Lightbearer”; Vulgate translation of hilel, הילל, “Daystar”)

Richard R. Losch, All the People in the Bible: An A–Z Guide to the Saints, Scoundrels, and Other Characters in Scripture (Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge, U.K.: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2008), 524.

 

[face2face]

To the extent how it matters if eternal life loses value. You might lose few because of that, but it would still be the most valuable thing you could have. Therefore nearly all would still do good and seek glory, honor, and eternal life.

Well if angels could sin, which we know they cannot then yes eternal life would hold the same value as mortal flesh - wages of sin is death.

Do you see how immortality is something we seek and not in possession as commonly held by Christians?

F2F

 

[face2face]

For 35 years I did not have a relationship with Christ. I was not interested, not drawn to Him in any way. I was on my own throne, lost. Them I was found, drawn to Christ through events and people that I realized were planned, not coincidence. I was a divine appointment, as awareness that God existed, that He loved me and had been there all along. These eye opening expereiences: being drawn to God, the Bible, a church, fellowship, prayer, were all ordered, authored by Christ. I received knowledge and faith in Christ and the Holy Spirit, Who confirmed His presense within me communing with my spirit, which was new. Fellow Christians told me in the beginning, it's like you are in a Honeymoon, wonderful and amazing things happen, prayers are answered, change within yourself becomes evident, you experience and are aware of His love _ everyday. We see the world and ourselves differently. That's the special essence of the new self, the new creature, who is like an infant that grows. We become hungry for milk, then later meat. We become aware of sin in others and our own life - we hate it, avoid it and render our old selves crucified with Christ.
To die to selve is spiritually instant as we are born again, which then requires a daily denouncement of sin, with this new direction, following Christ, growing spiritually, making righteous decisions to love God and one another.

Hi Ronald, all of these experiences speak to an enlightened mind or as James puts it "the implanted Word" which taken root and changing us slowly into the image and likeness of Him Who sent that Word into our hearts. Though nothing written above seems to indicate a "special essence" which is why I am being careful not to make assumptions to soon in our discussion. Christians typically believe they have something eternal in them, a "Divine Essence" which is a false understanding as we have already proven these things are sought by a believer and not in their possession. Romans 2:7 has already been discussed and is plainly clear on the matter.

Getting back to our OP you can immediately see the problem -

eternal life to those who by perseverance in good works seek glory and honor and immortality Rom 2:7.

Now if that eternal nature is capable of sin - what value would you ascribe is?
If the quality of God's Divine nature can and does sin what quality would you ascribe His Honour & Glory?

Tough questions. The answer should force a believer to examine the subject of satan, devil etc with great care!

F2F

 

[marks]

Praise the Lord, you angels of his, you powerful warriors who carry out his decrees and obey his orders! 103:21 Praise the Lord, all you warriors of his, you servants of his who carry out his desires! Ps 103:20–21.

Don't overlook the qualifier. This is speaking of obedient angels, not disobedient angels.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Well if angels could sin, which we know they cannot then yes eternal life would hold the same value as mortal flesh - wages of sin is death.

Do you see how immortality is something we seek and not in possession as commonly held by Christians?

F2F

Angels and men are different creatures, you realize. What is true for one is not necessarily true for the other.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

You're really going to make me repeat it again? I have asked you and asked you over and over and you dodge the question, by faking that your obtuse.

Here's what I think...you have something in your mind, its like a destiny you want to arrive at but you are lousy as providing the directions.

So you would not answer the question. Not answering the question put forth to you is in fact an answer in itself. You wont say it. You can't say it. ou have proven the bible to be true.

Wow, you would make a poor co-pilot!

Scripture tells us how to test the spirits to see if they are from God or not.

Very true...the Lord did this many times with the Pharisees - I can show you if you want?

SO I asked you a very specific question (3 or 4 times now, right?) and you have refused to give a direct answer to the question but instead try to go off on a tangent and tell stories and hope that will satisfy my curiosity.

Post one of those many questions in a separate post and lets try and get what you want!

You dodged answering the question! Over 400 keystrokes to dodge a question that could have been answered with 2 or 3 keystrokes? That's quite the subtle effort on your part to play stupid, lol.

This question must have great importance in your own mind for surely by now the urge to spit out your answer is irresistible lol.

So if you're not stupid, then you're willfully evil. And make no mistake about it, that was an answer to me. So I got my answer and so did everyone else on this thread.

Well if you got your answer the nature and depth of the question must have profound MA!

So many scriptures have been posted which prove you are a liar. Genesis 6:1-4
And this:
2 Peter 2:4
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;.../KJV

Did you answer the questions on this?

If this is speaking to divine angels sinning which is out of context with the overall chapter which is dealing with humans - they are chained reserved for judgement - they are powerless!!!

If powerless whats all the fuss MA?

Here deal with these points in your reply.

"The wages of sin is death." (Rom. 6:23).
If divine angels were sinners, then they would die.
But Jesus said angels do not die. (Luke 20:36).
Therefore, the angels which sinned were human, not divine angels.

Deal with Romans 6:23 and Luke 20:36; if you cannot speak to the text forget having anything of value to offer - just empty words in a screen!

Maybe you refuse to pick up your bible and read it for yourself, but your readers can sure read about it, lol!

See last comment!

You say there's no such thing as a Fallen Angel or an Angel who ever sinned. 2 Peter says they did very clearly. Go read it for yourself, or is theat book made of a substance that you dont like to touch? (Truth).

And again!

Stop projecting yourself onto me, lol. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WROTE A 400 LETTER DIATRIBE TO DODGE ANSWERING A SIMPLE QUESTION!

Moving right along....

Ohhh! Are you going to play the victim card now. like a woman? Can't you talk to a man like a man or does there have to be womanly games? The cracks are showing when a (supposed) man plays a victim card to another man he is talking to. No sale Boi.

No humility here.

Go cry to the Mods if you want. With luck they'll close down your crappy thread. Lol. Do it! I dont care. Play your victim card Lol. "He offended me sir, please help!"

Awkwardly emotional here.

Who is your lord? You havent told us. We already know because your words reveal the truth to us. But can you speak the words? I dont think you can...

Yahweh Elohim of Israel - The God & Father of the Lord Jesus Christ and His Son.

Amen!

 

[face2face]

Don't overlook the qualifier. This is speaking of obedient angels, not disobedient angels.

Much love!

We have well and truly established there are only obedience angels - that's the point of the OP Marks.
F2F

 

[face2face]

Angels and men are different creatures, you realize. What is true for one is not necessarily true for the other.

Much love!

Ah, interesting, so you believe in a God Who has different standards.

You believe the divine decree only applies to humans.

Tell me more!

Consider:

If the wages of sin is death, you must also understand the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now, correct - because of sin on Earth?

You must also then believe ALL Heaven is groaning and that God's very throne and house in Heaven is divided and in turmoil. Sin rampant in Heaven?

So when Christ prayed "May your Will be done on Earth as it is done in Heaven" must be a lie!

Marks, you cannot have it both ways.

F2F

 

[marks]

Ah, interesting, so you believe in a God Who has different standards.

And you are interested in having a conversation with yourself, since that's what you are doing when you put words into my mouth.

Life is too short.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

And you are interested in having a conversation with yourself, since that's what you are doing when you put words into my mouth.

Life is too short.

Much love!

It intrigues me how sensitive you are when the conversation moves into truth and away from your beliefs.

I interpreted what you said "What is true for one is not necessarily true for the other"

This must mean you believe God has different standards in dealing with sin - does it not?

F2F

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Well if angels could sin, which we know they cannot then yes eternal life would hold the same value as mortal flesh - wages of sin is death.

Do you see how immortality is something we seek and not in possession as commonly held by Christians?

F2F

Who do you say the Sons of God were in Gen 6:1-4?

 

[marks]

It intrigues me how sensitive you are when the conversation moves into truth and away from your beliefs.

Wisdom is justified by her children.

Now you seem to feel free to share your negative opinions of me, based on your perceptions, and cognitive bias, and to support your argument. It does nothing to prove your point, and only justifies my choice to not continue.

Projecting emotionalism, projecting motives, there are far better discussions to be had. Wading through all this stuff, like I said, life is too short. So I hope this explains myself to you to your satisfaction.

Getting personal with each other.

I believe we have all done it. Out of curiosity , do you think it is a learnt behaviour from childhood? IE....Parents getting personal with each other, wouldn’t that rub off on their children? Just interested in other members feed back...I find it very childish.... Maybe we are ignorant to...

www.christianityboard.com

Much love!

 

[face2face]

Who do you say the Sons of God were in Gen 6:1-4?

A number of ways of approaching this question Rella.

1st answer:

Luke 20:35 & 36 is 100% conclusive - angels do not marry!

20:35 But those who are regarded as worthy to share in that age and in the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage. 20:36 In fact, they can no longer die, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, since they are sons of the resurrection

Luke 20:35–36.

For some reason the Christians in this forum don't believe the Words of their Lord here? Has me baffled!

If you would like more let me know...we can look at the chapter and context also which I believe informs us plainly who they were.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Wisdom is justified by her children.

Now you seem to feel free to share your negative opinions of me, based on your perceptions, and cognitive bias, and to support your argument. It does nothing to prove your point, and only justifies my choice to not continue.

Projecting emotionalism, projecting motives, there are far better discussions to be had. Wading through all this stuff, like I said, life is too short. So I hope this explains myself to you to your satisfaction.

I'm actually more interested in how you define your God who treats sin differently with angels than He does with us?

It's your conundrum not mine.

If you cant answer simply say so, but don't play the victim please.

F2F

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

A number of ways of approaching this question Rella.

1st answer:

Luke 20:35 & 36 is 100% conclusive - angels do not marry!

20:35 But those who are regarded as worthy to share in that age and in the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage. 20:36 In fact, they can no longer die, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, since they are sons of the resurrection

Luke 20:35–36.

For some reason the Christians in this forum don't believe the Words of their Lord here? Has me baffled!

If you would like more let me know...we can look at the chapter and context also which I believe informs us plainly who they were.

F2F

No. No need to.

I believe they were the fallen angels that married and mated with women and produced the Nephilim.

It is not debatable to me.

 

[face2face]

Who do you say the Sons of God were in Gen 6:1-4?

I'll leave you with this also

Christians for decades have held false notions that only angel-human offspring could produce "nephilim" (mighty ones or giants, see Gen 6:4). But the sons of Anak in Numbers 13:33 were also giants, ("nephilim") and these were certainly not angel-human offspring, as they existed long after the flood.

I can keep going if you like but the more light I shine on this chapter and text the more problems you have.

As I've shown Divine angels cannot sin. They are "ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who will be heirs of salvation". Heb. 1:14. These angels are not rebels, but do Yahweh's commandments, "hearkening unto the voice of his word . . . ministers of his, that do his pleasure." Psa 103:20, 21

For all the fluff and noise some are making in this thread we are yet to see any real honesty on this subject with many coming and going and adding little substance to the study (not directed at you).

The truth of the above forces the Christian to rethink their entire approach to the Word of God and questions the mental images they have allowed to conjure in their own minds of the unthinkable!

I know its ironic but Percy Jacksons Movies which is based on Greek Mythology is actually more aligned to Apostate Christianity than even Christians care to admit.

Staggering

F2F

 

[face2face]

No. No need to.

I believe they were the fallen angels that married and mated with women and produced the Nephilim.

It is not debatable to me.

So you reject your Lord's words - interesting.

Force man-made notions on Gen 6 and reject the words of your Lord.

Not debatable you say

 

[face2face]

Who do you say the Sons of God were in Gen 6:1-4?

Answer 3

1. The phrase "Sons of God" can refer to angels as it may in Job 38:7.

But

2. The expression is also used of men in Deut. 14:1 ; Hosea 1:10; Luke 3:38; John 1:12; 1 John 3:1.

You have chosen to force 1. without considering 2?

Why do you think that is?

F2F

 

[face2face]

Who do you say the Sons of God were in Gen 6:1-4?

Answer 4

Can you stay within the Genesis story? What is meant by this is are you able to provide a contextual explanation to what has already been revealed in the first 6 chapters of Genesis?

I get you want to import these notions to the text, however you don't have an origin story! To mean you have nothing in the text to help you form those beliefs.

I believe Genesis 6:2 the "sons of God" were the righteous line of Seth (as per Genesis 4:26) intermarrying with evil Cainites.

It's the most plausible connection and speaks to the story as a whole. The two lines i.e seed of the woman VS. seed of the serpent continues...right through to the Revelation.

Thanks
F2F