7 Common Errors of Interpretation for Chapters 4-6 of Revelation

[Ronald D Milam]

And yet here I am showing the errors of this theory you follow which has only led to confusion.

You can't do that, I actually understand that which I speak about. You conflate everything all because someone fed you bad info long ago on the timing of the rapture and you now HAVE TO SEE everything through those tainted lenses. Thus you have a blind spot my friend.

Why can't those killed at the 5th seal be raptured?

Watch........these scriptures explains itself brother.

Revv. 5:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held(Remember, this is the HEREAFTER or 70th week): 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

{{ So, remember, this is Jesus FORETELLING things soon to come, so Jesus knows the hearts of these Martyrs before they even die, he knows their hearts are crying out for Justice & Vengeance, and below we see what he has to say on this. }}

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

See it now? So, these Martyrs who die in the Hereafter (70th week) are told SPECIFICALLY that they MUST WAIT, until the Beasts 42 month rule is finished (Little Season) and all his handiwork of KILLING their fellow servants and fellow brothers has been "FULFILLED". So, in other words Jesus just told these 70th week Martyrs they will only get Vengeance when the Beasts 42 month reign of terror is over, and not until, so they must wait. Then in Rev. 20:4 we we see only at that time do the Martyrs get raised and Judged, the ones who refused to take the Mark of the Beast are judged ONLY AFTER Jesus' 2nd coming. There souls are under the Altar, meaning they will be judged later on. So, those seen in Rev. 4 and 5 can not be from the 70th week, thus they can ONLY be the pre 70th week Raptured Church.

No where is God's wrath mentioned in Trump 1. God's wrath does not begin until after the GT has ended. The GT is not shown until Trump 6.

No, you confuse the text, it says God's wrath is FINSHED OFF in Rev. 15, so an Asteroid that kills billions is not wrath. Seal #6 is Prophetic, and it is called the Lambs Wrath, because when the 7th Seal is loosed God's Wrath starts at that point in time.

AC's 42 ,month rule is the GT. God's wrath is then poured out; all 7 vials.

No, they run parallel, the A.C. is a part of God's Wrath.

Rev 14:6-7
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
These verses occur between the firstfruits of the resurrection seen in heaven (Rev 14:1-5, aka the 2 witnesses) and Jesus' second coming. (Rev 14:14)
The 70th week ended when the 2 witnesses/144,000 were raised into heaven.
Then the everlasting gospel was preached.
Then comes Jesus.

There are Three Harvests, the Barley (Church) seen in a FLASHBACK in Rev. 14:14 the Barley is always harvested first and each crop has a First-fruits. Then we see Israel as the Wheat. and the world as the Wicked Grapes (Tares). This is where you get off-tracked brother.

Only the 7th trumpet describes God's wrath. Show me God's wrath in trumpets 1-6.

Its all 7. Think about the 7 Thunders in Rev. 10, you see there are no 21 judgments, there are only 7. Thus when John heard the 7 Thunders it was both sweet and sour unto him. Why? Because Judgment brings everlasting life with God (Sweet) but billions of Deaths to human beings (Bitter/Sour). All God's Wrath is in the 7 Trumps (Divine Completion).

Daniel's 70th week is comprised of 1260 days under a new Roman Empire. 1st half of 70th week.
Daily sacrifice removed and AoD is set up. 1260 days with Roman Empire ruled by Seleucid king. GT. Days of AC and FP and 2 witnesses.
From the end of Daniel's 70th week until day 1335 is the period of God's wrath.
The GT and God's wrath are 2 distinct period of time.
Note: Authority of AC ends at end of Daniel's 70th week, but he is not destroyed until the period of God's wrath.

The 70th week has 2520 days, the AoD is the 1290 not the 1260. The 1335 is the Two-witnesses showing up 1335 before the 2nd coming ENDS ALL THESE WONDERS, so they show up first to get Israel to repent. The 1290 is the False Prophet (a Jewish High Priest like unto Jason under Antiochus) who forbids Jesus Worship in "his" temple as per instructions of the E.U. President (IMHO, by this time Israel has joined the European Union), you see the Two-witnesses A-I job is to get Israel to repent as Malachi 4:5 says. This AoD event happens 1290 days before the 2nd coming ENDS ALL THESE WONDERS Daniel saw in Da 11:36-45 and that happens 45 days after the 1335 and 30 days BEFORE the Anti-Christ conquers Israel at the 1260 which happens (of course) 1260 days before ALL OF THESE WONDERS END !! This gives the 1/3 of Israel who repents (5 million Jews not 144,000) 30 days to flee Judea.

 

[Davy]

1 Cor. 15 is "The Rapture" those who are Dead in Christ will be raised and those who are alive will be CHANGED (this means we shed or flesh sins, in simple terms, we DIE and our spirit man goes straight to heaven because no sin flesh can enter heaven).

But of course that does not happen until AFTER... the coming great tribulation, like Jesus showed in Matthew 24:29-31.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The 7th trump is the last trump in prophecy.

It is the last of the 7 trumpets, but that does require it to be the last trump Paul spoke of.

Remember Paul wrote about the last trum over 3 decades before John wrote about the 7 trumpets.

There is a trumpet that is actually called the "last trump", that Paul and the Jewish believers would know about commonly. At the feast of trumpets (which symbolize the rapture) there are 100 trumpet blasts of the shofar. 90 soundings, then 3 sets of three staccato blasts, then the trumpeter would take the deepest breath he could and blow the final blast which is called in Hebrew the "tekiah gedolah" which translated means the great trump or the last trump.

Teh rapture takes place at teh trump of God, not the 7th trumpet of revelation.

 

[marks]

COMMON ERROR 1 Rapture takes place in the twinkling of an eye. Everyone disappears instantly. (The "Left Behind" Theory)
NEW THEORY 1 The Change from mortal to immortal takes place in the twinkling of an eye. Nobody becomes invisible.

You are comingling two passages.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 KJV
51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Our transformation takes place in the twinkling of an eye.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJV
16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Being caught up to meet Jesus, there is no timeline in this passage. It could happen slowly or quickly.

Much love!

 

[marks]

COMMON ERROR 2 "Hereafter" is after the church is gone.
NEW THEORY 2 Daniel's "Hereafter" began with the kingdom in which he lived (Babylon). Revelation: "Hereafter" is 1st century Rome.

I don't know what you are referring to here. Which passage in particular do you have in mind?

Much love!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You are comingling two passages.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 KJV
51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Our transformation takes place in the twinkling of an eye.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJV
16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Being caught up to meet Jesus, there is no timeline in this passage. It could happen slowly or quickly.

Much love!

There doesn't have to be a timeline. Paul gave the timeline in 1 Cor. Not all will die, but all will be transformed. How quickly? IN the twinkling of an eye.

So unless you have multiple resurrections of the church dead, this is the rapture.

 

[marks]

COMMON ERROR 3 John is raptured into heaven after the church age.
NEW THEORY 3 John sees the arrival of Jesus into heaven after he rose from the dead around 32 A.D.

Personally, I don't see the rapture of the church pictured in the Revelation in John's calling into heaven.

Concerning Jesus' arrival into heaven, this is a detailed discussion, there is a lot to it. I see certain difficulties if this is in circa AD 32, Jesus ascent to heaven. I see this debateable whichever view one holds.

Much love!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Personally, I don't see the rapture of the church pictured in the Revelation in John's calling into heaven.

Concerning Jesus' arrival into heaven, this is a detailed discussion, there is a lot to it. I see certain difficulties if this is in circa AD 32, Jesus ascent to heaven. I see this debateable whichever view one holds.

Much love!

I agree John called "up hither" is not symbolic of the rapture. John has never been symbolized as the church. If he was then we get the RCC doctrine that Mary as the Mother of the church because Jesus gave Mary to John at the cross!

 

[marks]

COMMON ERROR 4 24 Elders symbolically are the Church which has been raptured into heaven. (Song 2) proves Church as 24 elders.
NEW THEORY 4 24 Elders are angelic creatures who have worshipped God since creation. (Song 2) Cherubim sing this song.

I seen no reason to think these 24 elders are symbolic of the raptured church. Personally I think the raptured church are described just as they are, an innumerable multitude.

Whether they are angelic creatures or not isn't specified, however, in that they are "elders" indicates to me a creature having aged, indicating other than an angel.

I happen to think the Majority Manuscript to be the most definitive, which reads, "has redeemed us", indicating to me that these are redeemed men.

David appointed 24 "courses" of priestly families to serve in order in worshiping God, I wonder that this may be an heavenly continuation.

Much love!

 

[marks]

COMMON ERROR 5 Antichrist is rider on the white horse.
NEW THEORY 5 Rider on the white horse is any leader who wants to rule the world (Nero, Hitler). Seal 4 limits death to 1/4 of the earth.

This rider is not identified, however, it seems you are positing numerous riders over the course of time, is that your thinking?

Revelation 6:1-2 KJV
1) And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
2) And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

In the simplest reading, this is a single rider on a single horse, released at a given time, along with the other horsemen. For myself it make the best sense understood as "the beast".

Much love!

 

[marks]

COMMON ERROR 6 "Tribulation Saints" (martyrs) die during 7 years of Tribulation. (After Church is raptured)
NEW THEORY 6 "Tribulation Saints" is a term made to fit a Common Theory. The martyrs pictured during the fifth seal died during the 1st century.

I'm seeing how you are interpreting this now, as previously fulfilled.

Are you thinking these who died during the 1st century were Christian or Jewish martyrs?

Much love!

 

[marks]

COMMON ERROR 7 The events of the sixth seal will occur near the beginning of the 7 years of great tribulation.
NEW THEORY 7 The six stories of chapters 6-19 all end when the throne of God shakes the earth and/or when Jesus returns.

I'm not sure what your "6 stories" are, though I see that's your screen name, so I'm guessing you are invested into it.

A great deal of the Revelation is Prophetic Narrative, that should be understood in that way. That means we are bound to the timing words, the sequencial language, just like in the Olivette Discourse.

I'm guessing you are overlapping portions of these chapters, perhaps as some do matching seal to trumpet to bowl all showing a different aspect of the same thing. However, I find the language used does not allow that interpretation.

I think that as we understand the prophecies accross Scripture, there is a certain end times scenario that will occur, with a certain result. This is detailed in a great many places.

Much love!

 

[marks]

There doesn't have to be a timeline. Paul gave the timeline in 1 Cor. Not all will die, but all will be transformed. How quickly? IN the twinkling of an eye.

So unless you have multiple resurrections of the church dead, this is the rapture.

I think this happens with the rapture. He says, we won't all die, but we will all be changed, indicating that the dead as the dead are raised, the living are changed, both happening, just like in 1 Thessalonians 4.

Much love!

 

[ewq1938]

It is the last of the 7 trumpets, but that does require it to be the last trump Paul spoke of.

It does because there are only 7 trumpets. Paul spoke of the last trump for when Christ returns and that matches the time frame of the Coming in Rev. The 6th trump is the GT and when it ends, the two prophets resurrect and go to heaven and the 7th sounds and all kingdoms become the kingdom of Christ. It's obviously the same trump.

Remember Paul wrote about the last trum over 3 decades before John wrote about the 7 trumpets.

Two prophets can speak of the same thing decades apart. John didn't invent the 7th trump.

There is a trumpet that is actually called the "last trump", that Paul and the Jewish believers would know about commonly.

Paul was a Christian prophet not a Jewish/Judaism prophet.

Teh rapture takes place at teh trump of God, not the 7th trumpet of revelation.

Same trump.

 

[ewq1938]

There doesn't have to be a timeline. Paul gave the timeline in 1 Cor. Not all will die, but all will be transformed. How quickly? IN the twinkling of an eye.

So unless you have multiple resurrections of the church dead, this is the rapture.

The rapture is not the resurrection. The resurrection happens first, then after it is fully completed the rapture takes place.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Rev 8:5 "And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake."

As can be seen this Rev. 8 mention has an Earthquake, you do understand an IMPACT of an Asteroid will have more explosive power than all the Nuclear Weapons in the world going off in one place right?

Lightnings, thunderings and voices represent the throne of God. When the throne of God comes to earth, there is an earthquake just as there was in Ex 19 when God gave the 10 commandments.

The Thunder, Lightening, and voices are indeed representing the actions of heavenly beings on God's behalf. What Rev. 8 has that Rev. 4 doesn't have is an ACTION, an Angel took a censor filled with fire from the altar (which is God's wrath, it comes from God as shown in this very verse) and this is what causes these fires: SEE BELOW:




Before the impact an Asteroid is breaking apart, slinging hot sulfur balls to earth that will not stop burning until they burn completely up, that is what destroyed the wicked cities in the Sodom days. They have found intact sulfur balls in the Dead Sea close to where Sodom was at.

Rev 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."
This earthquake ends the GT. This is also the earthquake of Rev 6:12, again, the last thing to happen in the GT, which is followed in Matt 24 by the signs immediately after the GT, the dark sky.
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll

Rev 11:19 " And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."
This is the same earthquake as Rev 8 and 16. All appear during the wrath of God which is the time following the GT.

No it does not, the 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe, the 3rd Woe is all 7 Vials, thus the 7 Vials finish up God's Wrath, and it emits from the 7th Trump. The 7 Vials are the 3ed Woe to come.

The Asteroid Impact in the 2nd Trump is seen as an Earthquake by John. The Rev. 11 Earthquake happens during the 2nd Woe or 6th Trump. The Two-witnesses are only on earth preaching to the Jews and praying down God's wrath for 1260 days, thus when they get killed at the end of the 2nd woe the troubles of Jacob do not end, the Beast is not on his 1260th day, we know this because he dies at the 7th Vial. So, that should clue you in that the Two-witnesses must show up before the Beast goes forth conquering for 1260 days, because they die first. These earthquakes ate different events.

1260 days of the 70th week under Rome. AoD and removal of sacrifice, 1260 days of 70th week under Seleucid AC. Last 1260 days is GT. This is followed by the time of God's wrath.

2000 years off

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I think this happens with the rapture. He says, we won't all die, but we will all be changed, indicating that the dead as the dead are raised, the living are changed, both happening, just like in 1 Thessalonians 4.

Much love!

Yes it happens at the rapture.

Paul in Thessalonians defines what the rapture is, and in Corinthians tells how quick the rapture will take place and when (the last trump). As all feasts of Israel were literal but also types of either Jesus and the church, the feast of trumpets is typological of the rapture.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It does because there are only 7 trumpets. Paul spoke of the last trump for when Christ returns and that matches the time frame of the Coming in Rev. The 6th trump is the GT and when it ends, the two prophets resurrect and go to heaven and the 7th sounds and all kingdoms become the kingdom of Christ. It's obviously the same trump.

Sorry but after the seven trumpets are the seven bowls. the 7th trumpet does not bring Jesus return. He comes after teh seventh vial not the 7th trumpet.

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Same trump.

nope. Paul declared in Thessalonians that the church is to be delivered from the wrath to come. The rapture is pretrib.

Two prophets can speak of the same thing decades apart. John didn't invent the 7th trump.

Now just ashow that Paul knew of the 7 trumpets. don't just assume. Making a doctrine on an assumption is foolhardy.

Paul was a Christian prophet not a Jewish/Judaism prophet.

But we know the feasts were literal and typological of events in the life of Jesus and/or the church. And Paul wrote of Passover, Firstfruits, unleavened bread, etc and relating them to Jesus and/or the church. You have to assume Paul knew 3 decades before God revealed to John the 7 trumpets that Paul knew of those trumpets, while we do know He knew of a last trump and knew the feasts were types of events for Jesus and the church.

We also know that Paul knew a temple would be standing at the time of the end for He told us the antichrist would enter the temple and declare himself God. the last trump was blown on the ledge of the entrance gate of the temple.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The rapture is not the resurrection. The resurrection happens first, then after it is fully completed the rapture takes place.

So you believe the rapture happens after jesus returns or after the millenial kingdom.

Revelation 20:5-15

King James Version

​

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[ewq1938]

Sorry but after the seven trumpets are the seven bowls. the 7th trumpet does not bring Jesus return. He comes after teh seventh vial not the 7th trumpet.

Nope. Scripture says he comes at the last trumpet, not last vial.

nope. Paul declared in Thessalonians that the church is to be delivered from the wrath to come. The rapture is pretrib.

It is about being delivered from God's wrath. Rev 12 states Christians are intended to receive the wrath of satan.

Now just ashow that Paul knew of the 7 trumpets. don't just assume. Making a doctrine on an assumption is foolhardy.

He said last trumpet not last vial and the only last trumpet in any Christian/NT prophecy is the 7th. You are inventing an unknown amount of more trumpets to have a false last trumpet other than the 7th.