What Is "Predestination"? How Does It Shape Your Daily Life?

[GracePeace]

Actually, the NT Christian is never never called the bride of Christ. We are compared to a bride in several places, but those are similies, all of them. Meanwhile, we are specifically told we are His bone, flesh of His flesh, bone of His bone. And again, we are called His body in several places.

Now, God was married to Israel, and will be again, but now we're back into that pesky dispensationalism.

Much love!

John asserts Christ has a bride.

The idea of being Christ's body, His flesh and bone, cannot be divorced from Scripture--these are Adam's words about his wife, Eve (and the Church is compared to Eve in 2 Co 11:3).

James accuses individual believers of being "adulteresses".

 

[marks]

So, for you, predestine is about securing conditions that would inevitably lead to your justifying faith? How is that different?

No, that is not correct. You still put "foreknowledge" as causative. That's not what the Bible says.

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

The effect of predestination in my life:

When I was 17, I was suicidal, and made several attempts, including slit wrists, the freight train, I think there was one I don't really remember, and then a 4X fatal drug overdose. I did not die. God wasn't going to allow it, because He knew that when I would be 19, I would be born again.

Much love!

I've always heard OSASers reject what this view might be saying--ie, on the grounds that "I didn't choose Christ, Christ chose me"--it seems youre saying God foreknew that you would choose Him? Am I wrong?

 

[marks]

I've always heard OSASers reject what this view might be saying--ie, "I didn't choose Christ, Christ chose me", yet it seems youre saying God foreknew that you would choose Him? Am I wrong?

Doesn't God know everything that will happen?

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

Doesn't God know everything that will happen?

Much love!

Well, yeah, God foreknows, and, in my mind, He foreplans His responses to what He foresees people will do. He has already been here in that sense. He saw it all, and also already formulated responses to it. Since He is from eternity past, it would be impossible to say "when" He came to "know", but, also, Christ is God's "Son", which would infer He was "born", yet, since He has no beginning, but existed in eternity, it's not a unique problem.

 

[GracePeace]

Doesn't God know everything that will happen?

Much love!

My point was it seems you're saying God saw that you would choose Him...?

 

[marks]

John asserts Christ has a bride.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Israel. The Bible says God wed Israel, divorced her, and will marry her again.

The idea of being Christ's body, His flesh and bone, cannot be divorced from Scripture--these are Adam's words about his wife, Eve (and the Church is compared to Eve in 2 Co 11:3).

2 Corinthians 11:1-3 KJV
1) Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2) For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3) But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Yes, there are comparisons, similies, the like. Meanwhile, we are specifically called His body, not His bride.

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Israel. The Bible says God wed Israel, divorced her, and will marry her again.


2 Corinthians 11:1-3 KJV
1) Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2) For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3) But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Yes, there are comparisons, similies, the like. Meanwhile, we are specifically called His body, not His bride.

Much love!

Eve was Adam's body and bride.

Israel was God's people--whoever His people are, He is married to them.

 

[marks]

Well, yeah, God foreknows, and, in my mind, He foreplans His responses to what He foresees people will do. He has already been here in that sense. He saw it all, and also already formulated responses to it. Since He is from eternity past, it would be impossible to say "when" He came to "know", but, also, Christ is God's "Son", which would infer He was "born", yet He has no beginning, so it's not a unique problem.

Yes. I believe He planned ahead that I wouldn't die even though I did all those things.

As for, how long before creating did God know He would create, I don't see any real meaning to that question being as that is entirely an human distinctive. As @ScottA is correct in reminding us, God is completely outside our frame of reference in this way.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Eve was Adam's body and bride.

Israel was Gods people, so whoever His people are He is married to them.

Israel is a certain people group, the descendants of Jacob. And . . . the second marraige hasn't taken place yet. Israel is still currently divorced from God.

Much love!

 

[marks]

My point was it seems you're saying God saw that you would choose Him...?

And I'm saying yes, of course, as He knows everything that has and will happen.

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

Yes. I believe He planned ahead that I wouldn't die even though I did all those things.

As for, how long before creating did God know He would create, I don't see any real meaning to that question being as that is entirely an human distinctive. As @ScottA is correct in reminding us, God is completely outside our frame of reference in this way.

Much love!

I'm saying that some people object to the idea that an all knowing being could "learn" anything--and the "mysterious" solution is that all occurs as a result of His sovereign decrees.

 

[GracePeace]

And I'm saying yes, of course, as He knows everything that has and will happen.

Much love!

So, the objection would go, "Christ chose you, you didn't choose Christ".

 

[marks]

Eve was Adam's body and bride.

Eve was taken from man, flesh of his flesh, bone of his bone.

The reason they were to be married was to show our relationship with Jesus, now being bone of His bone, flesh of His flesh. And in the very passage that explains this, God calls us the body of Christ, and compares this to human marriage. Yet does not call us His bride.

Ephesians 5, already posted I believe.

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

Israel is a certain people group, the descendants of Jacob. And . . . the second marraige hasn't taken place yet. Israel is still currently divorced from God.

Much love!

Again, at some point, God said "You are not My People and I am not your God"--but there are those who do qualify as God's People today.

 

[marks]

I'm saying that some people object to the idea that an all knowing being could "learn" anything--and the "mysterious" solution is that all occurs as a result of His sovereign decrees.

It sounds like you are back to calvinism here.

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

Eve was taken from man, flesh of his flesh, bone of his bone.

The reason they were to be married was to show our relationship with Jesus, now being bone of His bone, flesh of His flesh. And in the very passage that explains this, God calls us the body of Christ, and compares this to human marriage. Yet does not call us His bride.

Ephesians 5, already posted I believe.

Much love!

Literally, the Church is called His bride in John's Gospel and in John's
Revelation.

It's one of the ways He relates to His People

Anyway, I've put my info out, you've put yours out--I don't want to keep on with this particular tangent.

 

[GracePeace]

It sounds like you are back to calvinism here.

Much love!

Yeah, I was answering their objection.

 

[marks]

So, the objection would go, "Christ chose you, you didn't choose Christ".

You seem to still be equating knowing what will happen with making it happen.

I seem to spend a good part of our time together trying to convince you of the things I don't believe . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

Literally, the Church is called His bride in John's Gospel and in John's
Revelation.

The church didn't exist in John's Gospel. Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel.

I suggest reconsidering exactly whom this future wedding will involve. The bride has made herself ready. That applies to Israel, according to the prophecies, not to the church.

Much love!