OSAS doesn't necessarily teach against sanctification--that's not my gripe with it.
Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
No one can lose their first Love, if they have been birthed in the Spirit.
Yet...they never bring that into the conversation,about abiding in Christ....all they do is quote scripture.
Yet...they never bring that into the conversation,about abiding in Christ....all they do is quote scripture.
Revelation 2
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
"Forgive" me for quoting Scripture in a discussion about Scripture!
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Counterfeits never want to discuss this, Living words from God.
(Ezekiel 36:16–38; Galatians 5:16–26) 1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.a2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set youb free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.c He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace,7because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the fleshd cannot please God. 9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alivee because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the deadf will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you. Heirs with Christ 12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him. Future Glory (2 Corinthians 5:1–10) 18I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently. 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words. 27And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. God Works in All Things (Ephesians 1:3–14) 28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. 31What then shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also, along with Him, freely give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us. More than Conquerors (Psalm 44:1–26) 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written: “For Your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”g 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. |
Nothing can separate us from the love of God that is "in Christ", but that assumes that we are remaining "in Christ"--and we can know that that is not the case for all, because some are led away by idols (1 Jn 2:28, 5:21).
@mailmandan @Ritajanice @Eternally Grateful I think someone could say that part of "abiding", which is by "obeying" (part of which command is to believe in the Name of God's Son--ie, Jesus means "God is Salvation" or "God saves"), would be believing that Christ saved them, and that they are going to remain until the end.
This seems paradoxical, because it is also true that some fail to abide, and can be removed, but, when they fall away, they are blotted out, accounted as having never been saved, since "if they were of us they would have continued with us", so this could be, at least in part, because they disobeyed the part of the command that says to believe God saves, because of idolatry (1 Jn 5:21)--eg, the Galatians were led away from abiding in God (Gal 1:6) by a persuasion that did not come from God (Gal 5:8), which, therefore, must have come from demons (1 Ti 4:1), and Paul stipulates that "the idols the nations worship are demons", thus unbelief (or belief in a lie) would qualify as an example of the "idolatry" (1 Jn 5:21) that may lead the "little children" away from abiding (1 Jn 2:28).
This seems paradoxical, because it is also true that some fail to abide, and can be removed, but, when they fall away, they are blotted out, accounted as having never been saved, since "if they were of us they would have continued with us", so this could be, at least in part, because they disobeyed the part of the command that says to believe God saves, because of idolatry (1 Jn 5:21)--eg, the Galatians were led away from abiding in God (Gal 1:6) by a persuasion that did not come from God (Gal 5:8), which, therefore, must have come from demons (1 Ti 4:1), and Paul stipulates that "the idols the nations worship are demons", thus unbelief (or belief in a lie) would qualify as an example of the "idolatry" (1 Jn 5:21) that may lead the "little children" away from abiding (1 Jn 2:28).
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
A Born Again has been birthed into Christ, lots of us have posted his living word confirming his truth, to his Born Again Children.
We always stand on his word and will continue to do so....as we are led by the Spirit....and not the self.
A Born Again, can never ever lose their salvation...God never lies.....deceivers and liars of God Word, will be dealt with accordingly by Him....
They live all day every day in sin,darkness, lies, deceit and much unrest...Praying that you bring them to your truth Lord...In Jesus Name...Amen!!
I too once was an unrepentant sinner and know only too well the depths of despair they are in.
We always stand on his word and will continue to do so....as we are led by the Spirit....and not the self.
A Born Again, can never ever lose their salvation...God never lies.....deceivers and liars of God Word, will be dealt with accordingly by Him....
They live all day every day in sin,darkness, lies, deceit and much unrest...Praying that you bring them to your truth Lord...In Jesus Name...Amen!!
I too once was an unrepentant sinner and know only too well the depths of despair they are in.
You reject His Word that says some don't abide because they are led away by idols (1 Jn 2:28, 5:21).
I'm on topic. You write in the first post "So, what makes the little children not abide in Christ?" And I'm saying there's a difference between being in Christ and Christ in us. The reason the church today does not abide "in Christ" is because it's not taught. Instead what is taught is we are to walk in our flesh to try to be more like Jesus. Or obey the Bible and then you will be In him. Those are Catholic concepts and that's why I'm posting these comments here.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
In regard to the church in Ephesus in Revelation 2, the Lord wanted the members of that church to repent (change their minds) about their attitudes regarding their works. "You have left your first love/repent and do the first works." (Revelation 2:4-5) Works of love no longer characterized the church as a whole at Ephesus. The preceding and following verses make it clear that the church at Ephesus was not totally displeasing to the Lord. He commended that church for maintaining doctrinal purity in the face of false teachers, yet that is still not a substitute for love.
The question in the verse before us is the warning which follows the Lord's command to repent. What did the Lord mean when He spoke of removing the church's candlestick or lampstand if they did not repent? The removal of the lampstand is figurative language. This does not mean that individuals in that church will lose their salvation, but the church can forfeit its place of light bearing and witness. Ephesus is a city which is now overrun by Islam, so the light of that church has been removed there. Go figure.
Christ is the Word. How can we be in Christ but Christ not be in us?
"If you abide in Me, and My Words in you"
Ritajanice
Born-Again
They post all day every day.....because of their unrest in God’s word....
That’s an awful place to be....the enemy has them in his hands....God’s allowing it...everything happens for a reason...only God can draw them to Jesus and open their heart to receive his word...
Praise you Lord for showing us, your mercy and grace and thank you for delivering your word of truth, that penetrated our heart, when you birthed us in the Spirit and thank you Father God for giving us your precious Holy Spirit.....who keeps us abiding in the true vine...Jesus.
in Jesus Name....Amen!
That’s an awful place to be....the enemy has them in his hands....God’s allowing it...everything happens for a reason...only God can draw them to Jesus and open their heart to receive his word...
Praise you Lord for showing us, your mercy and grace and thank you for delivering your word of truth, that penetrated our heart, when you birthed us in the Spirit and thank you Father God for giving us your precious Holy Spirit.....who keeps us abiding in the true vine...Jesus.
in Jesus Name....Amen!
She had denied that anyone could lose their first love, but we saw it was possible. That was my point.
You don't struggle with God's Word because you don't even know it.
"Ignorance is bliss" as they say. You rest in ignorance. That's fine, too.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
You will know them by their fruit.
A bad tree will never bear fruit, because they aren’t Born Again...they can only bear their own fruit....which is rotten.
Just as ours was, before we became Born Again!....Praise God for his fruit.....fruit that will last.....not counterfeit fruit, that rots.
Matthew 7:15-20
New King James Version
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
A bad tree will never bear fruit, because they aren’t Born Again...they can only bear their own fruit....which is rotten.
Just as ours was, before we became Born Again!....Praise God for his fruit.....fruit that will last.....not counterfeit fruit, that rots.
Yeah, they bear fruit if they abide, and they're cut off and thrown in the fire if not. That's my point. LOL
See... you are not understanding what I'm saying.
The topic is "abiding is necessary for eternal life", and that some do not abide, which debunks OSAS.
HOW to abide is tangentially related, but it's not the topic, and I may decide not to address it if it is raised, because I see that someone wants to import an entire new discussion (eg, Catholicism, Original Sin, Carnal Nature, etc).
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
THERE is only TWO kinds of fruit and YE SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS .
We have the FRUIT of the wicked
and then we have the FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT . AND beleive you me the two are contrary to the other
though both do speak of doing some good works .
THE TRUE and i do mean TRUE BELIEVER and not mouth only believer
HAS THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT
the false convert well they have not the fruit of the SPIRIT but rather the fruit of the wicked .
NOW the true believer has CONFESSED BY MOUTH JESUS IS CHRIST and believeth from the heart that GOD has rose HIM from the dead .
LETS establish that first .
YES false converts can mouth that , but then their fruits will also prove them false .
Lets take a real good peek at what THE BIBLE calleth the FRUIT of the SPIRIT
and what THE BIBLE calleth the fruit of the wicked .
THE FRUIT OF THE WICKED IS TO SIN ...................................................................................................
THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT is in all righteousness , truth and godliness
proving that which is acceptable TO GOD . sin aint , nor are other religoins or paths to GOD .
YE SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS INDEEED .
NO LAMB is gonna deny JESUS CHRIST by mouth and try and teach OH if you just have love it didnt matter what path you followed .
NOR IS ANY LAMB gonna WALK IN SIN , JUSTIFYING IT , TRYING TO MAKE IT SEEM GOOD either .
OOPSY WE GOT BIG PROBLEMS IN THE HOUSE .
A TRUE LAMB is gonna HAVE CONFESSED JESUS AS THE ABSOLUTE ONLY WAY TO BE SAVED and THAT YE MUST BELIEVE TO BE SAVED
and , AND THEY GONNA BE WALKING BY THE SPIRIT and that FRUIT dont honor sin , EXACTLY .
I SHUN the all inclusive social gospel to HADES IF I COULD . I SHUN IT , I REFUSE ITS LOVE , ITS LOVE IS FALSE
ITS GOSPEL IS NO GOSPEL and i SHUN IT and i will warn against it WHETHER I BE BANNED OR EVEN KILLED .
WE NEED TOGET IN THE BIBLE and learn that JESUS . THAT DOCTRINE . MANY MANY MANY decievers do abound .
AND THEY ARE EVERYWHERE in these last hours .
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