Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,901
50,670
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No,

its not about salvation. Its about fruit bearing
The WORD of GOD is the TESTIMONY of JESUS CHRIST , the glorious gospel that saves .
IF one believeth not that , it is because there is NO truth in them .
IF any comes and brings not the true gospel , the BELIEVE YE IN JESUS , HEED not a word they got to say .
Many now come who often use the name of JESUS , yet are brining in a go spell that is contrary to the ORGINAL one .
THESE wont be heeded peroid . IF a man cometh and is teaching that it is not necessary to believe on
JESUS to be saved , then that is a liar . If one comes in under the guise of what he or she calls love
and yet that love DONT REJOICE IN THE TRUTH but rather in a lie that has made the way to GOD broad .
THEN only the lake of fire awaits . Lest they repent of it . For all those who LOVED a lie .
WE SHOULD have LOVED THE TRUTH . CHARITY REJOICES IN TRUTH , not inquity and lies .
Even now there are many anti christs who are not OF US but are amongst the realm of christendom
to lead christendom and all religions of the world and the world to gather as one under what they believe is GOD
and is LOVE . ONLY ITS Neither
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marvelloustime

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,901
50,670
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Fruit comes from the spirit. It's all I know.
Well lets give the biblical defintion of what the FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT ACTUALLY IS AND DOES .
FOR the FRUIT of the SPIRIT is in all righteousness , godliness and truth
PROVING what is Acceptable to ................................drum roll ............................................
.............................................................................to men , NOPE .
OH wait is it to the generation at hand and what it thinks is right .....................NOPE .
TO GOD .
YEAH ITS BIBLE TIME . cause the fruit of many seemth to pander to the changing generations views of what it finds acceptable .
BINGO .
Would you like the actual BIBLICAL defintion of what GRACE DOES .
take note these are BIBLICAL DEFINTIONS and not feelings and emotions or opininos of men .
FOR the grace of GOD that brings salvation has appeared
TEACHING US TO ........................to what ............
TO DENY all ungodliness and worldy lusts
to be living soberly ,righteously and godly as we await the coming of the KING .
OOPS cause this too is not the version of grace i see most embracing today . FOLKS need BIBLE
FOLKS NEED to read BIBLE . TO LOVE BIBLE and know exactly WHAT god or GOD what jesus OR JESUS
they been following . cause satan can use that name too . only beware the version of god or christ or love or etc
HE GONNA SELL YA ON .
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marvelloustime

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,901
50,670
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Fruit comes from the spirit. It's all I know.
Not all fruit . but YES TRUE GOOD FRUIT does .
but always remember
the FRUIT of the WICKED , IS TO SIN . seems to me in these days
that a lot of folks who cliam to have the FRUIT of the SPIRIT , THE LOVE of GOD
, the GRACE of GOD , sure seem to be accepting and supporting sins . HOUSTON , WE GOT A PROBLEM IN CHRISTENDOM
cause the many i am specifically talking about are within that HOUSE . I mean we KNOW the rest of the world is in darkness and sin
but when its taken over much of christendom , WE GOT A MASSIVE FALLING AWAY occuring
and guess what its being done under the guise of being , LOVE . OOPSY me smells poopsy in much doctrine and fake love within
churches themselves . Its a hogs trough of a mess of doctrinal dung and slop shovled out of the troughs and feces of hogs
and yet called doctrine and love by the church . what wicked days we are in .
WE SHOULD have BEEN LIGHT to the world , NOT darkness portraying itself as light .
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marvelloustime

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
5,443
1,108
113
Southwest, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You need to realize that in this very large group of Hebrews that God delivered out of Egypt and not all of them were genuine believers. Hence, later destroyed those who did not believe, so of course immorality and idolatry would have been a manifestation of their unbelief. This is not talking about the righteous falling into immorality and idolatry and losing their salvation. That is your eisegesis.
At the outset, I want to remind everyone that your view was unknown, it is foreign to, historic Christianity. The early Church did not hold to it. It is a recent innovation, and that is why it runs in to problems with every Scripture.

Now, deliverance from slavery in Egypt by the blood lambs is itself a type of salvation from slavery to sin, so it corresponds to Christians saved by the blood of the Lamb--since there is no "false deliverance from slavery in Egypt by the blood of lambs" in view (either you're in Egypt, or delivered/saved from Egypt), there is no "false believer" in view.

Yes, those who do not continue in faith, who do not continue to walk in faith, will, as you say, be cut off--precisely what I said Paul was saying in 1 Co 9:26-1 Co 10 (if he doesn't make his flesh his slave, and instead lives as a slave of his flesh, if he lives in the sins he mentions, he will be "disqualified" for the prize of continuing in faith, walking in faith, running the race of faith, which is eternal life, as he says, "fight the fight of faith, lay hold on the eternal life to which you were called"--we know that sin can "harden the heart" so that it becomes "an evil heart of unbelief" leading one to "fall away from the living God" (Heb 3:12,13), so, yes, "disqualification" refers to falling into unbelief/not being in the race of faith, thus loss of eternal life).
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 is describing the sinful lifestyles of the unrighteous.
In context, he is shocked by, responding to, the Corinthian church's own unrighteous behavior.
In Galatians 5:19-21, these are the same unrighteous people who practice such sins.
He's responding to their own departure from God through following a false Gospel (Gal 1:6-9, 3:1-3, 5:8), and their no longer running the race of faith (Gal 5:7).
No one who is born of God practices sin (1 John 3:9) so these are not genuine believers who lost their salvation.
1 John addresses Gnostic heresy, which teaches all matter is evil, and, because of that, among other things, a) Christ didn't incarnate (bc He'd had been sinful), and b) Christians will continue in grossest sin.

Clearly, that's what John is addressing.

Now, did the Judaizers deny that Christ was incarnated? (I think even Muslims agree with that.) No. Yet we would not agree that, based solely on that, their spirit is "of God". So, we know that that statement was made particularly against Gnostic heresy, and it doesn't apply in every instance.
So, the statement that "no one who is born of God continues in sin" is specifically about the gnostic heresy.
Not only that, but notice he adds the stipulation "because His seed abides in him"--but we know that not all remain in Him and His Word (seed) in the (1 Jn 2:28), they are drawn away by "idols" (1 Jn 5:21).
If someone falls away from faith in a way that is irreversible (God is just, and He knows there are different reasons why people err from the faith, and treats cases differently, like with the ones in Hebrews 6 versus the audience written to in the epistle--"we are persuaded of better things concerning you, though we speak this way", or the Galatians), God "forgets" their righteousness (of faith--faith is counted as righteousness) as Ezekiel says (Ez 3:20), so that it is as though they were never saved at all. When they blotted out, their name is not visible, so it's not in the Book. There is no memory of them, hence, "they were never of us", "I never knew you", etc.
Interestingly, this exposes another deficiency of your view: Christ is "the same yesterday today and forever", yet, in your view, Christ doesn't blot names out His Book (and specifically for sinning against Him), as He had already shown He does in the past (Ex 32:33).
The righteousness you are talking about is 'self-righteousness' which is in contradiction with (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
No, it's God's righteousness that is "revealed from faith to faith" (Ro 1:5,16,17, 14:5,23; Php 3:9).
There are multiple crowns in scripture which are imperishable.

1. The imperishable crown
2. The crown of rejoicing
3. The crown of righteousness
4. The crown of glory
5. The crown of life

Do you believe that all of these crowns are synonymous with receiving eternal life and all believers will receive them?
These are all one and the same. Righteousness is what results in eternal life.
Because Christ loved righteousness, God anointed Him with oil of gladness.
The Spirit of Glory rests on the righteous.
"Imperishable" is merely a juxtaposition to the "perishability" of the wreath which winners of the earthly race are crowned with, it's not a "special crown" that is separate from some other "crowns".
In Revelation 19 we read about the coming of Christ and in verse 12, we read - His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns... So, what do those crowns represent? Are they all synonymous with receiving eternal life as well?
He is King of kings--the saints, who are "a ROYAL priesthood", all cast their crowns at His feet, and He is apparently wearing them.
Scripture cannot contradict itself. Paul is on record all throughout the New Testament stating that salvation is by grace through faith, apart from works. (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). It would make no sense for him to be saying we work hard for and earn eternal life in a race just like we would work hard for and earn a gold medal in an Olympic race when salvation is a free gift that is not based on works.

Nothing of what you say makes any sense.

In 1 Corinthians 9:27, Paul is talking about being disqualified for the prize (NIV) and not disqualified for the gift of eternal life. In context, Paul has been discussing preaching the gospel. In verse 18 he says, "What is my reward, then?" In verses 24-27 he illustrates this thought of his reward by the picture of a race run for the prize. Salvation is a gift that we receive by grace through faith, (Ephesians 2:8,9) and not a prize that we race for, win and earn.
1. Again, the logical conclusion of your view is that Christians can commit the sins he covers in what follows (1 Co 10) and still have eternal life, whereas he already said you don't inherit God's Kingdom if you commit those sins.
2. Eternal life is both a gift (and it comes about through the gift of slavery to righteousness actually if you read Ro 6) and a repayment to doers of good at the future judgment (Ro 2:6-16) or a harvest you reap in due time from doing good deeds (Gal 6:6-10). Again, I don't believe just one sliver of Scripture, I believe it all.
The reason it's both a gift and a repayment is because it's given to us by faith, but we also retain it by remaining in Christ by walking in faith ("in Christ" there is "no condemnation" (Ro 8:1), but the believer who does not walk in faith is "condemned" (Ro 14:5,23)--ie, he's not remaining in Christ, and is "storing up wrath").
3. Same goes for salvation--we WERE saved, we ARE BEING SAVED, and WILL BE SAVED. All are in Scripture.
Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. That does not sound like a free gift to me. (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8) 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 mentions - If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, (of reward) though he himself will be saved.

1 Corinthians 9:24 - "Do you not know that those who run in a race ALL run, but ONLY ONE receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it." In an Olympic race, all runners run but only one receives the gold medal. So, what happens to the runners that receive the silver medal or bronze medal or finish the race with no medal? Are they disqualified from the Olympics or for the prize? Everyone who falls short of winning a gold medal is not disqualified from the Olympics.
Lol Paul said he could be disqualified from the race of faith, so it refers to falling away from the faith, and it's specifically about sin--which can "harden the heart", causing a believer's heart to become "an evil heart of unbelief", whereby they "fall away from the living God"--so, yes, it's about eternal life.
Paul does not seem to indicate any insecurity about his position - Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. (2 Timothy 4:8) Do you believe that the other 4 crowns were laid up for Paul as well?
No, I don't believe in different crowns, just the one crown referred to in various ways.

Because Paul lived the right way--as he said, "my conscience is clear"--he had "confidence", as 1 John 3 says.
 
Last edited:
  • Sad
Reactions: mailmandan

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
5,443
1,108
113
Southwest, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You turn everything into 'works salvation' and 'losing salvation.' Brings back painful memories for me of how miserable I was when I believed that as well, prior to my conversion while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago. :(

James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
Justification is by the righteousness of faith--and we're to not only live by the Spirit but also walk by the Spirit, as Paul says--and God's assessment of us is ongoing, as Romans 14 says the Christian who doesn't walk by faith is condemned not justified. See how that interlocks with James 2 perfectly? Both refer to the believer needing to walk by faith, not only have faith.
In regard to Romans 1:5, although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God.
Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. (Romans 5:2) not faith "and" obedience/works.
Yes, "believe in the Name of God's Son" is one table of the Law of Faith, but, since I try to believe in all of Scripture, not just slivers of it, I also recognize the second table of the Law of Faith, which is "love one another", and, since "faith works by love" (if he is not walking in faith, he is not walking in love, thus he is breaking God's Law, the whole of which is "fulfilled in one word: love your neighbor as yourself" (Ro 13:8-10; Gal 5:14)), when the Christian doesn't walk in faith, he is "condemned" for "sin", not "justified" (coalescing with the teaching that some do not abide in Christ: there is no condemnation for those who are "in Christ" (Ro 8:1), because "in Him there is no sin" (1 Jn 3:5), but the Christian who does not walk in faith is not remaining in Christ, since remaining in Christ is by keeping the TWO laws of faith (1. believe in the Name of God's Son, and 2. love one another/walk in faith (1 Jn 3:23,24)), so he does experience condemnation (Ro 14:23) for not remaining in Christ but sinning).
The works Paul refers to are works wrought by sinful flesh (Ro 8:3; Gal 3:3), not "God's righteousness" "revealed from faith to faith" (Ro 1:16,17; Php 3:9).
Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who (works hard enough for and earns it? NO) believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. (Also see 1 Corinthians 1:18-21; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4)
"Revealed from faith to faith"--hence the condemnation on the believer who doesn't walk in faith.
In regard to Romans 14:23, being uncertain about eating a particular thing yet eating it anyway is not the unpardonable sin. That is ludicrous and is not what Paul meant by condemned here. Noticed that in multiple translations, verse 22 says "condemn himself, self-condemnation, judging himself, passing judgment on himself" etc.. so condemned in that sense but not condemned in hell.

Some people tend to get carried away with certain obscure passages of scripture. Scripture must harmonize with scripture. Jesus clearly drew the line in the sand on condemnation in John 3:18. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
If so, God doesn't condemn sin. It doesn't say he thinks he sinned, and he thinks he's condemned, it says he did sin and is condemned. Sins are committed against God first and foremost. If he sinned, he sinned against God--and God condemns that. It even says that the effect of his sin is he is "destroying" his brother, and "destroying the work of God" (which, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you believe can even happen!).

The issue of "bringing condemnation on himself by what he allows" is saying "don't bring condemnation on yourself by destroying your brother by practicing what you have faith to do in front of your brother if it destroys him (because it may make him go against his own, faith, making him sin, and you will be complicit)".
 
Last edited:
  • Sad
Reactions: mailmandan

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
5,443
1,108
113
Southwest, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
More eisegesis on your part. Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) In a race you run in such a way to win a prize and salvation is described as a gift, not a prize. (Romans 5:15,16,18; Ephesians 2:8) 1 Corinthians 9:27 says "disqualified for the prize" and not disqualified from the race of faith. Nowhere is the word "unbelief" mentioned in 1 Corinthians 9:24-27.

In regard to Romans 11:17-23, the Israelites (Jews) were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored - Romans 11:24-26). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not become arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Jews lost the goodness and blessings of God.

Professing Christians, who are Gentiles, are corporately in outward covenant with Christ so, it would appear that Romans 11 is speaking about the question of collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology. I see the warning to this collective body, which is corporately joined to Christ and is in a covenant relationship, but how could this mean that every individual in it is in saving union with Christ? Hence the "cut off." Union with Christ applies to the elect, and only for the elect are, "the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." (verse 29) But since non-elect covenant members are mixed in, Christ clearly appears to have non-elect branches, like Judas Iscariot (John 15:1-8) and while they may be joined outwardly in covenant with Christ, since they have professed faith in Jesus, the faith of some of them is spurious because they were never truly saved to begin with, even though they were among genuine believers. (1 John 2:19)
The, text neve says "outwardly corporately in, Covenant", it simply says you're included with God's people by faith, and you're excluded from God's people by unbelief. Simple. The Gentiles who believed are warned that there is no partiality: the same rule that the Jews were cut off for breaking also applies to them. Simple.

If "the gifts and callings of God are irrevocable" applied to being part of God's people, the Jews wouldn't have been cut off--and the Gentile believers, who "stand by faith", wouldn't have been warned that they could be cut off from God's people, too.
 
  • Sad
Reactions: mailmandan

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
5,443
1,108
113
Southwest, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith
What it seems you're not appreciating is justification by faith is not arbitrary, it's based on righteousness, specifically "righteousness of faith", "God's righteousness revealed from faith to faith"--a righteousness which is by abiding in Christ by obeying the twofold Law of Faith (1. Believe in the Name of God's Son, and 2. Walk in faith/love one another) based upon which righteousness we are justified--hence the one who does not remain in faith in his walk is "condemned" (Ro 14:5,23).

There is no false faith in view--he doesn't mention a "mannequin" faith when he compares faith to a body; he only refers to a complete body (with its spirit), corresponding to a complete faith (with works), and to an incomplete body (without its spirit), corresponding to an incomplete faith (without works).
No false body is in view, thus no false faith is in view.
 
Last edited:
  • Sad
Reactions: mailmandan

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
5,443
1,108
113
Southwest, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@mailmandan I hope, even though you disagree (based on your "frown" reactions), you can see that I'm just trying to follow Scripture. I have to believe what I read.
 

Peterlag

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2022
3,325
964
113
New York
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Not all fruit . but YES TRUE GOOD FRUIT does .
but always remember
the FRUIT of the WICKED , IS TO SIN . seems to me in these days
that a lot of folks who cliam to have the FRUIT of the SPIRIT , THE LOVE of GOD
, the GRACE of GOD , sure seem to be accepting and supporting sins . HOUSTON , WE GOT A PROBLEM IN CHRISTENDOM
cause the many i am specifically talking about are within that HOUSE . I mean we KNOW the rest of the world is in darkness and sin
but when its taken over much of christendom , WE GOT A MASSIVE FALLING AWAY occuring
and guess what its being done under the guise of being , LOVE . OOPSY me smells poopsy in much doctrine and fake love within
churches themselves . Its a hogs trough of a mess of doctrinal dung and slop shovled out of the troughs and feces of hogs
and yet called doctrine and love by the church . what wicked days we are in .
WE SHOULD have BEEN LIGHT to the world , NOT darkness portraying itself as light .

The Catholics took the Apostles ministry over pretty early. It did not get big and popular until the second century. But for it to be that big then it must have took roots much earlier. I read historians writing about holy water as far back as the year 80 or 90. They may have been around starting up even when some of the Apostles were still alive and if so they probably helped to kill them. So they got it early with the help of the Roman King and corrupted the thing so that even today there's a whole bunch of people even on this form that believe what the Catholics taught them and think it's from Jesus. You want examples? Here's a few...

Much of the Roman Catholic doctrine was assimilated into Protestantism and is still being passed along as Christian groups continue to split off from one another. In a nutshell that is why even the independent church in your neighborhood today most probably believes that there is a trinity, dead people are alive, God is in control of everything that happens, the Four Gospels are written to Christians, and water baptism is relevant. And then there's everything that you know about our sin nature was taught to you by them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eternally Grateful

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
5,443
1,108
113
Southwest, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No he did not take the cup of wrath. He took the cup of suffering which is different. IT doesn't make sense for the Father to pour out his wrath on his son. What was he angry about with him?
Isaiah 53
4However, it was our sicknesses that He Himself bore,
And our pains that He carried;
Yet we ourselves assumed that He had been afflicted,
Struck down by God, and humiliated.
5But He was [c]pierced for our offenses,
He was crushed for our wrongdoings;
The punishment for our [d]well-being was laid upon Him,
And by His wounds we are healed.
6All of us, like sheep, have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the LORD has caused the wrongdoing of us all
To [e]fall on Him.
7He was oppressed and afflicted,
Yet He did not open His mouth;
Like a lamb that is led to slaughter,
And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers,
So He did not open His mouth.
8By oppression and judgment He was taken away;
And as for His generation, who considered
That He was cut off from the land of the [f]living
For the wrongdoing of my people, to whom the blow was due?
9And His grave was assigned with wicked men,
Yet He was with a rich man in His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.
10But the LORD desired
To crush Him, [g]causing Him grief;
If He renders [h]Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the [j]good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
11As a result of the [k]anguish of His soul,
He will [l]see it and be satisfied;
By His knowledge the Righteous One,
My Servant, will justify the many,
For He will bear their wrongdoings.
12Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great,
And He will divide the plunder with the strong,
Because He poured out His [m]life unto death,
And was counted with wrongdoers;
Yet He Himself bore the sin of many,
And interceded for the wrongdoers.

2 Corinthians 5
21For our sake He made Him to be sin Who knew no sin, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.


Our sins were placed on Jesus, therefore, it pleased God the Father to crush Him.
 

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
5,443
1,108
113
Southwest, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Not all fruit . but YES TRUE GOOD FRUIT does .
but always remember
the FRUIT of the WICKED , IS TO SIN . seems to me in these days
that a lot of folks who cliam to have the FRUIT of the SPIRIT , THE LOVE of GOD
, the GRACE of GOD , sure seem to be accepting and supporting sins . HOUSTON , WE GOT A PROBLEM IN CHRISTENDOM
cause the many i am specifically talking about are within that HOUSE . I mean we KNOW the rest of the world is in darkness and sin
but when its taken over much of christendom , WE GOT A MASSIVE FALLING AWAY occuring
and guess what its being done under the guise of being , LOVE . OOPSY me smells poopsy in much doctrine and fake love within
churches themselves . Its a hogs trough of a mess of doctrinal dung and slop shovled out of the troughs and feces of hogs
and yet called doctrine and love by the church . what wicked days we are in .
WE SHOULD have BEEN LIGHT to the world , NOT darkness portraying itself as light .
Are you talking about the gays? Yeah, God calls that an abomination.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amigo de christo

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
5,443
1,108
113
Southwest, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Amen, We abide after we have been attached to produce fruit, not to stay saved
Incorrect: the Christian who does not abide in Christ (1 Jn 2:28) by breaking the second table of the Law of Faith, "love one another" ("walk by faith" + "faith works by love" + "God is love" + "God writes His laws on our hearts and minds" (Jer 34:31-34; Ro 2:14,15) + "let every man be fully convinced in his own mind" (Ro 14:5) + "what ever is not of faith is sin" (Ro 14:23)) (1 Jn 3:23,24), because he's led away by idolatry (1 Jn 5:21), is "condemned" for "sin" (Ro 14:23), and if we continue that way, we will die and not live just as Adam died for sin (Ro 8:12,13; Hebrews 10:26).

You also already know that the branch that does not abide and bear fruit is cut off and thrown in the fire (Jn 15)--if being cut off from Christ and being burned in the fire doesn't mean "going to hell", if it doesn't mean "loss of salvation", I don't know what could. The fact is that you are wedded to a theology that disallows for this reality, so, even when you read it being explicitly taught you can't accept it.
 

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
5,443
1,108
113
Southwest, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The spirit in a Believer is "born again" as "One with God" "in Christ".

That is eternal..

But what can become confused and faith ruined is....related to losing the TRUTH that is... "Christ KEEPS you SAVED, exactly like He saved you"..

So, the born again, always ABIDE, in Christ, as they are joined to Him, Spiritually.
THe born again, are always "the Temple of the Holy Spirit".
Some do not remain in Christ (1 Jn 2:28), but break His commands, which, if kept, make a believer abide in Christ (1 Jn 3:23,24), because they're led away from Christ by idolatry (1 Jn 5:21)--eg, "I am astonished you are so quickly deserting Him Who calls you in the grace of Christ and are going after another Gospel" means that they were breaking the first table of the Law of Faith, which is "believe in the Name of God's Son".

But their understanding of Salvation, can become lost, ruined, confused.. and once that happens, they start talking about trying to maintain relationship with God by SELF Effort.

= That's Broken faith.

= Legalism.
To be clear, are you agreeing that a believer can break the Law of Faith by misunderstanding salvation, and, therefore, not be abiding in Christ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: amigo de christo

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
5,443
1,108
113
Southwest, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Some people tend to get carried away with certain obscure passages of scripture. Scripture must harmonize with scripture. Jesus clearly drew the line in the sand on condemnation in John 3:18. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Actually, the correct translation is "He who IS BELIEVING"--ongoing believing in the present tense--which is exactly in keeping with the "abide"/"remain" doctrinal concept.

Had He said "He who believes", someone might be justified if they (despite all the rest of the Bible's testimony) construed that as referring to a one-time event, but that is not what Jesus is saying there.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: amigo de christo

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
5,443
1,108
113
Southwest, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I do not agree. Those in Christ abide because they already have the spirit. Nobody can try to be good and get the spirit.
Interesting opinion, but I read...

1 Thessalonians 4
3For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;
4that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor,
5not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God;
6that no one transgress and wrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you.
7For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness.
8Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but disregards God, Who gives his Holy Spirit to you.

I also read...

Psalm 51
11Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.

It's not mere coincidence that David said this after having "wronged his brother", Uriah, by having slept with his wife, Bathsheba.

So, yes, the Spirit/eternal life/knowledge of God's glory is a gift we receive upon being justified by the righteousness of God of hearing with faith (eg, Gal 3:1-3), but, no, just because it is a gift doesn't mean He can't withdraw His Spirit if we displease Him (eg, justification is compromised by not walking in faith (Ro 14:5,23), since it is by righteousness that we are justified, but God's righteousness that justifies us is only revealed "from faith to faith" (Ro 1:5,16,17)--we abide in Him by both having faith in the Name of God's Son and by walking in faith, and those who abide receive the Spirit)--and, no, it doesn't mean people don't continue to merit more and more of the Spirit when they are walking in faith. The more and more steps that are taken in faith the more and more the Spirit is dispensed--and the Spirit is withdrawn to the degree that we are not having faith in God's Son and walking in love/faith (1 Jn 3:23,24).
 
Last edited:

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
16,575
5,513
113
34
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Isaiah 53
4However, it was our sicknesses that He Himself bore,
And our pains that He carried;
Yet we ourselves assumed that He had been afflicted,
Struck down by God, and humiliated.
5But He was [c]pierced for our offenses,
He was crushed for our wrongdoings;
The punishment for our [d]well-being was laid upon Him,
And by His wounds we are healed.
6All of us, like sheep, have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the LORD has caused the wrongdoing of us all
To [e]fall on Him.
7He was oppressed and afflicted,
Yet He did not open His mouth;
Like a lamb that is led to slaughter,
And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers,
So He did not open His mouth.
8By oppression and judgment He was taken away;
And as for His generation, who considered
That He was cut off from the land of the [f]living
For the wrongdoing of my people, to whom the blow was due?
9And His grave was assigned with wicked men,
Yet He was with a rich man in His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.
10But the LORD desired
To crush Him, [g]causing Him grief;
If He renders [h]Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the [j]good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
11As a result of the [k]anguish of His soul,
He will [l]see it and be satisfied;
By His knowledge the Righteous One,
My Servant, will justify the many,
For He will bear their wrongdoings.
12Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great,
And He will divide the plunder with the strong,
Because He poured out His [m]life unto death,
And was counted with wrongdoers;
Yet He Himself bore the sin of many,
And interceded for the wrongdoers.

2 Corinthians 5
21For our sake He made Him to be sin Who knew no sin, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.


Our sins were placed on Jesus, therefore, it pleased God the Father to crush Him.
Yep. But he didn’t take on Gods wrath.
 

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
5,443
1,108
113
Southwest, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yep. But he didn’t take on Gods wrath.
Why not if our sins were on Him--and "the wrath of God is revealed from heaven on all the unrighteousness of men" (Ro 1:18)?

What has happened that men pass from death to life, and are no longer abiding under God's wrath when they're in Christ--no longer dead in sin--when they're "in Christ"?

Is God happy or wrathful when He curses people for sinning? Yet Christ was "cursed"--"cursed is He Who hangs on a tree"--when He bore our sins.

Of course He endured God's wrath--He endured what men would otherwise have to endure for their sins when our sins were on Him. That's how He's able to save us from that wrath--He endured it Himself.

Yes, He didn't deserve it--that's precisely the point. Had He deserved it, it wouldn't have merited anything for us, but He willingly laid His life down to become the object of God's fury when He bore our sins. Like a lightning rod attracts lightning to spare others.
.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.