For those "in Christ", there is "no condemnation", but even if someone slips and does not remain in Christ, they're "condemned", so how are those who are not even in Christ at all not also "condemned"?
Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life
- Thread starter GracePeace
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If God has "faith", it is in His Word, and His Word tells us that only those who believe see life, whereas those who do not believe will not see life but remain under God's wrath. They "do not know God".
Revelation 22:14-21
King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
I am not against people being resurrected of condemnation as promised by Jesus, however what do you believe God is gonna do to them, is my question. I believe personally people have the choice to go through the lake of fire, they live outside the gates of the city.
Revelation 22:14-21
King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Yeah, Isaiah 66 says "they will go forth and look upon the corpses of those who transgressed against me for their fire will not be quenched and their worm will not die"--they're "outside", too, and they're under God's wrath.
A promised by JEsus - about both faithless people and faithful people being resurrected, and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
Is God resurrecting these people a bad thing or a good thing?
Is God resurrecting these people a bad thing or a good thing?
When you do wrong, are you under God's wrath? You do love to talk about it and make sure it is known.
In my view, which I have not completely worked out, those who do not accept and walk by Christ will have to pay for their own sins. They owe God a debt of glory. "We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Jesus says "you will not get out of there until you have paid the uttermost farthing", and "it will be more tolerable for Sodom on that day"--this infers gradations of penalty based upon severity of the crime/sin. If this is true, then people will have to "glorify God" (pay their debt of glory) by revealing God's wrath, which glorifies God, by being objects of wrath, until they finish "paying" what they "owe".
Some cannot ever get out because their sins are unpardonable--there is no end to God's offense with them.
Everything God does is good. Existing is not living. Just because the men are "existing" doesn't mean they have "eternal life", since "life" is a quality and "death" is a quality--today, men are "dead in sins", yet they are "existing", so "existing" in "torment" is not "life" (even if it was eternal torment, it would not qualify as "eternal life").
How could they pay for their own sins though if Jesus paid for the sins of all people already? What are your thoughts about the lake of fire? God is a God of love... consuming fire. How you you patch that into your belief?
There are two "wrongs" a person can do:
Not believe God forgives them for Christ's sake
Not walk in love
If I confess my sins God is faithful and righteous to forgive me and cleanse me of all unrighteousness.
I would say that God gives them life from himself, to be able to live in the heavenly realm. And that the gates of the city never close. Perhaps they are happy with what they receive, they didnt want to be with God anyway, but perhaps there is a loss and a torment that they hear the voice of God calling from far away, but perhaps they do not want it yet, or have yet to desire the truth?
The "payment" is only in Christ because Christ already endured the punishment--everyone outside of Christ is not enjoying that reality.
The payment made them blank slates. Whether they enjoy God or not, is up to them. Not up to me, or you, or anyone else.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Paul is talking to Jewish believers, or proselyte believers who have decided to be circumcised.
So, they are thinking that way, because someone who is a Teacher of Moses Law.... has told them, "you need to do this"..
PETER did this same thing one time.. .He got caught up in Jewish'ism, and Paul corrected him to his FACE and told Him He was out of order,.. that he was not obeying the Truth., that is found "in Christ".
And Peter was still born again, just like he is right now.
So, Paul is explaining that ... "if you keep some of the law, you have to keep it all"....>"you are putting yourself back under the law"... and in that place, Christ is not found. = "Of no effect".
Yet, at the same time..>"Christ IN YOU< the hope of Glory" is still their eternal reality.
These Galatians never stopped being "'the temple of the Holy Spirit".
So, this is the same as we find today, when you have people on forums who are probably a real Christian, telling you that you have to keep the law, keep the commandments, do works of righteousness"..
What is all that?
its LEGALISM, and its the enemy of the Cross, .. .however. to "fall from Grace" into that "self saving" mentality, has no effect on your Born again Status...as all that is happening, is that the mind in the believer has become, as Paul said to the Galatians..
= "WHO has bewitched you, so that you no longer obey the Truth".
They were still born again.
Well, I would just follow the Scripture and see that they are raised to be thrown into fire.
May Yahava, help you come to what is to be true at least. God is a consuming fire, and he burns out the darkness of the faithless that becomes faithful. They are not thrown in the lake of fire forever... not like the devil, the false prophet, and the beast. They have a part in that fire, and it's Yeshua that will became known to them or the Lord God Almighty, I believe in a God that is good, and that is not mad or angry with anyone anymore... he will do rightly placing people where they will be, from that resurrection they recieve but idk what else you could tell me really yet, you are still working out your own beliefs.
That is good, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. I am not gonna save you.
So... just to clarify, so we don't get lost, the issue was that people can be drawn away from abiding in Christ by "idolatry" of a false Gospel spoken by a demon, and this is not a good position to be in because Christ can avail them nothing and they're not in a position to continue receiving the Spirit if they continue in their departure from God by disobeying the command to believe in the Name of God's Son.
Also notice Paul's "antidote" for their falsehood: it isn't "Christ alone", it is "serve one another through love". He is telling them to walk by faith and love and serve one another by the grace of God (faith and love) God is working in their hearts, and not to serve by the Law of Moses. It is never "Christ alone", because the command is twofold "believe in the Name of God's Son and love one another".
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