Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life
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Nah, anyone can read what you have done. You don't quote me, and then you proceed to go off on a tangent not addressing specific claims I've made--that's why I want you to quote me, so we can know you are addressing my claims head-on!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Been there done that
Don’t say you will accept it. You have not..
proven by the fact of your last sentence. We are not burying truth. Show us where we erred..
We do not agree with you. And we have shown you why..
You can either respond to us and show us how we erred. Or we will continue
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I spoke of being born again, of how we recieve eternal life. And what abiding in God is
I was not going off tangent, thats the SUBJECT OF YOUR THREAD.
I can see this is a waste of time again..
If you don't abide in Christ, you aren't supplied with the Spirit (1 Jn 3;23,24), because the eternal life/Spirit is only located "in His Son" (1 Jn 5:11).
If you want to call not having eternal life "not an issue of salvation", anyone will be able to recognize you don't have a clue.
Disagree however much as you want, but QUOTE ME and then get into specifics on what I've said, don't just go on tangents, and "high fiving" other users, suppressing the information I've set forth.
You haven't disproven anything, you've gone on tangents. The only times you've directly addressed my points, you've been soundly disproven, like the post you just made denying that abiding in Christ is an issue of eternal life.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Yeah, again : branches that don't abide don't bear fruit and are thrown in the fire, but you say abiding and bearing fruit isn't an issue of salvation, so you're saying that being thrown in the fire isn't a salvific issue. If being thrown in the fire isn't a salvific issue what can be!?
To be clear, I'm not saying YOU don't abide in Christ, or condemning you, I'm just saying I disagree with your approach to explaining Scripture.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Abiding in Christ
John 15:5
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
As we can see, Abiding in Christ is not to be saved, it is about doing AFTER we are saved.
if we abide in him, we will bear much fruit.
If we do not, we can not DO nothing.
its about doing, not earning or becoming
1 John 4:13
By this we know that we abide inHim, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit
@Ritajanice mentioned receiving the spirit. This is why she said it. Because it is through recieving the spirit. That we KNOW we abide in him
Abiding in him has another purpose. So we are not ASHAMED when he comes
1 John 2:28
And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming
Why? Again it is doing.
what do we do when we abide in him?
1 John 3:24
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us
its not about being saved, or keeping our salvation
it is about doing good works. bearing fruit. Being confident when we see Christ. And it is ALL based on the spirit GIVEN To US.
John 15:5
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
As we can see, Abiding in Christ is not to be saved, it is about doing AFTER we are saved.
if we abide in him, we will bear much fruit.
If we do not, we can not DO nothing.
its about doing, not earning or becoming
1 John 4:13
By this we know that we abide inHim, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit
@Ritajanice mentioned receiving the spirit. This is why she said it. Because it is through recieving the spirit. That we KNOW we abide in him
Abiding in him has another purpose. So we are not ASHAMED when he comes
1 John 2:28
And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming
Why? Again it is doing.
what do we do when we abide in him?
1 John 3:24
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us
its not about being saved, or keeping our salvation
it is about doing good works. bearing fruit. Being confident when we see Christ. And it is ALL based on the spirit GIVEN To US.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
To review what we saw from John 3, 4 5 and 6
We recieve eternal life. When we like look up to the cross. As moses lifted the serpent, so to must the on of man be lifted up. That is how we are born again, Raised from death to life. And this life God calls eternal
We receiving living water when we ask for it. Those who drink this water will NEVER THIRST.
We recieve eternal life by hearing the words, and believing in him. Once we do this, we have passed from death to life, and we will never perish but live forever
We need to eat the spiritual food that endures forever. Once we do, we will never hunger, never thirst, never perish, Live forever, Never be lost, have eternal life, And have Gods promise he will raise us..
We recieve eternal life. When we like look up to the cross. As moses lifted the serpent, so to must the on of man be lifted up. That is how we are born again, Raised from death to life. And this life God calls eternal
We receiving living water when we ask for it. Those who drink this water will NEVER THIRST.
We recieve eternal life by hearing the words, and believing in him. Once we do this, we have passed from death to life, and we will never perish but live forever
We need to eat the spiritual food that endures forever. Once we do, we will never hunger, never thirst, never perish, Live forever, Never be lost, have eternal life, And have Gods promise he will raise us..
Idk if people are under God's wrath or not at this very moment because I do not believe that God's wrath abides on anyone anymore. However, if a person who does not abide in Christ, they can end up quenching the spirit if they are not careful.
19 Do not quench the Spirit. 1 Thessalonians. There are people who do believe people abide under God's wrath still today, however from my point of view the cup has done been poured out. However, that doesn't mean a person who follows after Yeshua, can not be ungraft from the vine, and thrown into the fire to burn.
John foretold Jesus baptizes with holy spirit and fire, and that fire can affect people who are Yeshuans and follow after him, perhaps that burning is from guilt, that leads them to going back to Yahava and telling him what is going back on, and become regrafted in.
All depends on how you look at it.
19 Do not quench the Spirit. 1 Thessalonians. There are people who do believe people abide under God's wrath still today, however from my point of view the cup has done been poured out. However, that doesn't mean a person who follows after Yeshua, can not be ungraft from the vine, and thrown into the fire to burn.
John foretold Jesus baptizes with holy spirit and fire, and that fire can affect people who are Yeshuans and follow after him, perhaps that burning is from guilt, that leads them to going back to Yahava and telling him what is going back on, and become regrafted in.
All depends on how you look at it.
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The eternal life is only found "in His Son" (1 Jn 5:11).
Therefore, only those who abide in Christ are eligible for receiving the eternal life/Spirit (1 Jn 3:23,24).
Only those who obey Christ--1) believe in the Name of God's Son, and 2) love one another--can abide in Christ.
Some Christians do not abide in Christ (1 Jn 2:28); they are drawn away by idols (1 Jn 5:21).
Actions you take AFTER being saved can result in your falling under God's wrath according to 1 Co 9:26-1 Co 10.
This is, again, why abiding in Him--by obeying His Commands 1) believe in the Name of God's Son, and 2) love one another--is a matter of eternal life, because branches which do not abide in Him do not bear fruit and are thrown in the fire.
Again, if "being thrown in the fire" is not a matter of salvation, WHAT CAN BE? If you're selling someone a brochure for a vacation, and you're telling them they're going to be thrown into a fire, do you think you're going to sell a lot of vacation packages? No, no one wants to go to a fire--Biblically, "the fire" refers to the place of torment Jesus is supposed to save us from.
Only those who abide in Christ, by obeying His Commands--1) believe in the Name of God's Son, and 2) love one another--are being given His Spirit, but if we do not abide in Him, we are not going to be given His Spirit, because the eternal life is only "in His Son" (1 Jn 5:11).
This is why Paul warns, "Whoever disregards this [prohibition on immorality] disregards not man but God Who gives you His Spirit" (1 Th 4:8): God gives His Spirit to the person who is abiding in Christ by obeying His command to "love one another", but the Christian who commits immorality does not abide in Christ, since they are not "walking by faith" (and "faith works by love": walking in faith is walking in love--keeping Christ's command) (Gal 5:6), therefore God will not continue supplying His Spirit to them, just as David said, "Do not take your Holy Spirit from me" after he committed immorality.
Taken
Well-Known Member
In brief ~
#1 Sorry for having not believed.
(Called repentant)
#2 Works of God.
(Called Belief in your heart’s thoughts)
(Heart’s thoughts are mans natural spirit.)
(Man’s natural spirit is mans natural Truth)
#3 Service unto God.
(Called Confession unto the Lord God OF your Heart’s True Belief.)
(Called your reasonable Service)
(Called your living sacrifice.)
UNDERSTANDING ~ in brief ~
# 1 How a person IS believing…
(By Hearing/Receiving Gods Word)
#2 Why a person IS believing when Hearing.
(By God Gifting them with measures of FAITH, FOR Hearing/Receiving)
#3 Knowing what IS Faith.
(Gods Power WITH the person, so they CAN Believe, CAN trust their Belief)
#4 Man learning, recognizing they were naturally born of a mans SEED, Against God, Not naturally born IN Belief, and DISBELIEF IN God, IS SIN AGAINST God.
#5 Man learning, recognizing their own will-Power is weak, easily distracted, confused, wishy washy, while Gods POWER is Supreme, and ONCE Gods Power is WITH a man…
~(a) a man (of his own volition) CAN TRUST, his “good” fortunes (blessings) come from God…
And
~(b) his “hardships”, will exist, yet TRUST, God WITH them, God will COMFORT THEM, through their “hardships”.
OR …
Man can ENJOY the “good” fortunes (blessings) from God being WITH them…
And
Ignore Gods Comfort, and Become mad, doubtful, challenge, question, WHY God did not Prevent, Quickly stop, their “hardships”…
And
Man CAN Freely decide to no longer be WITH God,
(which IN TURN, God will NO LONGER be WITH them).
(Called the man having TASTED (experienced) God WITH them, having RECEIVED “good” fortune/blessing From Gods Holy Spirit….
Then the man freely deciding to REJECT being WITH God, and He WITH them.)
A man ENJOYING Gods Holy Spirit being WITH the man…
The man Receiving “good” fortune/blessings AND “Comfort” during “Hardships”…and TRUSTING in BOTH…
IS a man becoming PREPARED, to VOW by His WORD, COMMITMENT to the Lord God, and DOES SO…
By the Word of His Mouth;
From the Thoughts IN his spirit in his Heart;
A VOW from his spirit to Gods spirit, his desire to FOREVER be “WITH” the Lord God, and FOREVER the Lord God be “WITH” that man.
** As God IS Spirit…all communication, prayers, requests, OF a man…TO God
IS Always…
Via…spirit to Spirit.
A man MAKING a VOW of Confession (spirit to Spirit) to BE WITH God Forever…
IS ALSO UNDERSTOOD…
The VOW of Confession of TRUE BELIEF…
The DESIRE of the man to FOREVER have God WITH him, and the man FOREVER BE WITH God…
INCLUDES ……
The MANS WILLINGNESS to …… WHAT?
The man SIGNING his signature on a piece of Paper….like agreements made between a mans spoken word and a mans confirming word TO another man; by the proof of him having signed his signature on a contract?
No. Then What? What does God Require, and a man MUST be WILLING to Give God, by Vow, by Promise……if NOT the mans signature on an Agreement Contract?
** The VOW, the PROMISE, of the mans True Word of his spirit…TO GIVE TO GOD…
His bodily Life unto Death.
(Understanding…the Service of the Living sacrifice)
WHY? What is God going to DO with a mans DEAD BODY?
Forgive it, Cleanse it, Cover it, Sanctify it, Separate it from Un-cleansed Body’s, Seal it, Keep it WITH Him Forever, Justify it, Redeem it, Change it……TO WHAT?
A sinless, holy, glorified body, suitable (Having been Given Gods TRUTH), to Forever Be WITH God……AND…..made with the ability TO SEE God.
The Living Sacrifice…is a man while still ALIVE in his Flesh Body…is Vowing a promise for God to HAVE his Physical Dead Body…
Man waits for the manifestation of his Physical Body to DIE.
God does NOT have to wait to SEE. God accounts, what man can not see, as ALREADY Accomplish-ED.
So how does an ALIVE man, in his corrupt living body, have an accounted DEAD body, while being “treated” as though he is LIVING IN a new glorified body?
Understanding ~
The clause, the perk, the offering, IS FOR such a man TO LIVE IN Christ Jesus’ risen Living Glorified Body….until his own BODY is Glorified.
(simply called…crucified WITH Jesus…and IN Christ)
Understanding ~
The Process is ALL effected, by a mans Freewill, to hear, to believe, to confess, to willingly give his life to God, (agreeing to Gods WAY) to receive Gods Offering…..
OR NOT.
And a man WHO freely exercises his will to DO SO…..
Processes….from hearing, to believing, to confessing, to giving his life, to forever being with God…
The Process moves along…from..
With-OUT God, to With God, to WITH-IN God, to WITH God forever.
WITH God Forever is called; saved, born again, converted, made whole…
Body, soul, spirit.
Forever God will be your God, and you his son, and Forever His word shall be your word, He will give you, knowledge, understanding, counsel, wisdom, power, rest, peace, joy, perfection….which IS His Love….Forever….Amen.
Glory to God,
Taken
Ritajanice
Born-Again
We have been baptised into Christ....plus there is only one baptism......a Born Again learns to walk in the Spirit.....they learn that from the Spirit.....we don’t instantly walk in the Spirit...well, I certainly didn’t.
Amen.....that can also happen to a new babe....I knew I was Born Again, when I was baptised in the Spirit....that’s all I knew, period.
It’s the Holy Spirit who is Living in our spirit....he is the only one who can speak to us through the Living word of God and it can take year to understand this.
How does he do this....he speaks directly to our spirit....he’s always giving me the words to say....how would I know what to say, without the Holy Spirit, who lives in my spirit?
Why, because it’s a Living relationship between Father and child....we came from the depths of sin into his light.
Now, we are to be taught anew, which can only come via the Holy Spirit, when we feed on his word....a Born Again needs that spiritual food....that’s what we feast on....
Pray that God removes the scales from their eyes and births them in the Spirit
Amen!.....as we have found on another thread that you started.
Amen!!
Abiding in Christ for me, took years to understand...my heart had to be open and in the right place to understand “ abiding “ ..only the Holy Spirit could do that and thankfully he has.....he keeps me abiding in Christ, I have that total security in him, knowing this.....therefore have no, worries over it.
If I kept thinking or saying, I must do this or I must do that.....then it would be me, trying to abide in him......I can’t do that.....I rely solely on the Holy Spirit, to keep me abiding in Christ.
After all, God’s word says, we can do NOTHING without the Holy Spirit.......I have received and believed that...in Jesus Name!!...Amen!!
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
More on Eternal life
1. We have it,
1 John 5:11
And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this lifeis in His Son
1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God
Notice also.. it is knowing we have eternal life that encourages us to continue to believe inthe name of Christ. Which encourages to continue to ABIDE IN HIM (as we saw earlier, to abide in him is to believe)
It is the promise of God. And he gave it to us
1 John 2:25
And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.
And this is the basis of our faith, our hope
Titus 1:2
in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,
remembering that faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen Heb 11: 1
you see. It is the hope of eternal life. And the fact God gave it to us that keeps us believing in that hope. Which enables us to continue to abide. It’s not abiding in Christ that gives or allows us to keep eternal life. That is backwards
1. We have it,
1 John 5:11
And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this lifeis in His Son
1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God
Notice also.. it is knowing we have eternal life that encourages us to continue to believe inthe name of Christ. Which encourages to continue to ABIDE IN HIM (as we saw earlier, to abide in him is to believe)
It is the promise of God. And he gave it to us
1 John 2:25
And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.
And this is the basis of our faith, our hope
Titus 1:2
in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,
remembering that faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen Heb 11: 1
you see. It is the hope of eternal life. And the fact God gave it to us that keeps us believing in that hope. Which enables us to continue to abide. It’s not abiding in Christ that gives or allows us to keep eternal life. That is backwards
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
Ritajanice
Born-Again
A Born Again is not under God’s wrath.
(Colossians 2:6–23) 1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath. 4But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.a One in Christ (Philippians 2:1–4) 11Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. 14For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has torn down the dividing wall of hostility 15by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace 16and reconciling both of them to God in one body through the cross, by which He extinguished their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through Him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Christ Our Cornerstone (Isaiah 28:14–22; 1 Corinthians 3:10–15; 1 Peter 2:1–8) 19Therefore you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of God’s household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone. 21In Him the whole building is fitted together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord.22And in Him you too are being built together into a dwelling place for God in His Spirit. |
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Yes, John gives us confirmation in 1 John 3:19-24 how we can know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence. Now he who "keeps" (guards, observes, watches over) His commandments (descriptive of genuine believers) abide in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
Just like in 1 John 2:3, we read - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. (This is descriptive of genuine believers) 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (This is descriptive of unbelievers)
So, to abide, remain, not to depart, continue to be present, is not something that only super saints do but all genuine born-again Christians. Failing to abide (continue) demonstrates that such people who went out from us were not of us. If they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. (1 John 2:19)
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