Who Really Are The 144,000?

[Earburner]

I'm not sure what you mean by "immortal earthen vessel". But yes, I agree with all of this.

I would add that at the end of the age when Jesus returns, all of surviving Israel - the people, descended from Jacob - will come to faith in Christ and will enter the new covenant, and at that time He will restore His redeemed chosen nation to their promised homeland.

Much love!

Jesus, who was only Spirit with His Father, before He was made to be flesh, is now permanently a New Creature (creation) Himself, being that of Spirit and Immortal flesh, of which had never been before.

 

[Earburner]

Are you saying that those created on the 6th day were literal "gods" on earth, all Father, Son, and Holy Spirit living on the earth?

Otherwise you saying that the robe of white is the permanency of the Holy Spirit does not make sense. Either we are gods or we are the image of God: soul, body, and spirit. That white robe is just God giving us back our spirit we should be in, instead of in Adam's dead corruptible image, just a soul and dead flesh.

God did not create us to be god's, but rather to be innocent "earthen vessels" for His indwelling.
Through the temptation of satan, by which we fell, we lost the opportunity of eternal life, by choosing the wrong tree first!

In our fallen state, we now have the knowledge of both good and evil, which is to be as "a god", having within us our own self wills only, of which caused it to be that we forfeited the Gift of Eternal Life.
Gen. 3:22-24
22. And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

 

[Timtofly]

God did not create us to be god's, but rather to be innocent "earthen vessels" for His indwelling.
Through the temptation of satan, by which we fell, we lost the opportunity of eternal life, by choosing the wrong tree first!

In our fallen state, we now have the knowledge of both good and evil, which is to be as "a god", having within us our own self wills only, of which caused it to be that we forfeited the Gift of Eternal Life.
Gen. 3:22-24
22. And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

No, that is not Scripture. God created humans in the image of God to be sons of God in the express image of Jesus the only begotten son of God.

We are not vessels. We are creations with a direct ability to communicate with God. God did not come down and dwell in Adam. He walked and talked with Adam as a separate created entity apart from God. God came and went as He pleased. He was not constantly indwelling Adam.

Being a vessel for the Holy Spirit to dwell in us, was a condition, because now Adam's offspring were totally alien and foreign to God in a state of death. Adam and Eve stopped being sons of God. They had a totally different and dead physical body. They no longer had their spirit, as that was removed and they were spiritually in blindness. All they retained is who they are, a soul. Now God could only communicate with the soul. This flesh body was abhorrent to God, and has to be replaced to enter God's presence.

They literally died as God said they would. Their eyes being opened did not give them knowledge. It removed them from God into death, and they now saw what death was. The knowledge of the contrast of good and evil. The difference between obedience and disobedience. You are falling into Satan's deception thinking that knowledge made them a "god". Disobedience removed them from being sons of God, into bodies of death. Just the opposite as you claim.

Of course God knew what good and evil was. God knew what the entire creation would be like from beginning to end. God already knew that billions of humans would die separated from God. God already planned the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. That did not make Adam and Eve as God. That act of disobedience totally separated them from God. Having knowledge of something is the point. That was the name of the tree.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Pathetic. The Seed is Christ. The Seed of Salvation. Not national Israel. Christ's Church only represents Himself, the Seed, in the New Testament. Not national Israel. You shall see.


LOL!! You are so stuck with geographic and people and yet do not spiritually understand who Seed is and the spiritual tribes of Israel are. :)


Even the Jewish leaders quoted Scripture and Christ said they do NOT understand it because they have carnal minds...like their cousins, the Dispensationalists. :)


The Lord Judges and I am comfortable with it. :)


It's you who is having a reading issue. Read verse 26 carefully. It said, "And so" which means "thus" or "in this way". Not, "and then." You are trying to declare that it says "and then" all Israel "will" be saved, it doesn't really say that at all!! Speaking of Israel it says part of it is blinded until the fullness of Gentiles come in (to Israel), and so all Israel shall be Saved. This is another very important distinction that is often merely glossed over by those who do not want to accept what is written here. Sorry, dude, you are wrong with your interpretation.



Again, The Lord Judges and I am comfortable with it. :)

Romans 11 blows your entire theory out of the water.
You and all the replacement extra biblical adherents.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I don't dispute that.

But neither do I dispute this:

Jeremiah 31:31-37 KJV
31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Of course this will be fulfilled through Christ, to those redeemed by Christ. And in this instance, it will be towards His elect nation Israel. He will save them, and fulfill His promises to them.

Maybe you think God cannot save His chosen nation? Is that the issue?

Much love!

yep
So basic
There are reasons why the replacement doctrine adherents modify the bible.
The 144k are a huge setback to their folly.
They have embraced a doctrine that can not tolerate their existence
So they get real creative of how Rom11 and the 144k are Gods mistake when he vividly declared to be the opposite of their crafty bible switcheroo

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus, who was only Spirit with His Father, before He was made to be flesh, is now permanently a New Creature (creation) Himself, being that of Spirit and Immortal flesh, of which had never been before.

the bible explains how The Jews come in last after the gentiles.
And that re-grafting is through Jesus.
Truly impossible to miss.

 

[rebuilder 454]

And how does this mean God took back His promises? I don't understand that. I realize that generation was to be punished, the Bible speaks about that. But taking back His promises? I don't see that.

Much love!

Yep
The Jew is the "wife gone awhoring"
The gentile church is the bride.
Rom 11 can not be changed
Nor the 144k
The Jews grafted back in.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Here is a bonus for no extra charge;

In fact, the first miracle of Jesus is the vivid illustration of the Jewish gathering after the gentile church;

Wedding
Jewish
6 earthen vessels
Wine produced supernaturally OUTSIDE FERMENTATION.

Then the pivot point;
"....you saved the best for last"
Last is first/first is last in the kingdom
Over and over we see the SECOND BORN male recieve the blessing of the first.
Jesus to his Kewish didciples;
" i will not drink of the fruit of the vine until i drink it anew with you in my fathers kingdom."
Rev 14 is the Jew gathered after the church, to the wedding in heaven
Hidden....but so obvious.
The Jew is dealt with last.
They preceded us.
They follow us.

 

[Earburner]

the bible explains how The Jews come in last after the gentiles.
And that re-grafting is through Jesus.
Truly impossible to miss.

You are misunderstanding the two views of how all of Israel of faith came to have faith in Jesus.
1. Under the OC, they who were of faith, looked for "the Promise to come", but had died in faith believing centuries past, before Jesus was made to be flesh. Though longtime dead, on Pentecost they also are given the permanent indwelling seal of God's Holy Spirit, to all who were written in the book of Remembrance. Malachi 3:16.
They are the symbolic 144,000, as seen in Rev. 6:9-11.

2. Under the NC, Jews who are of faith in Jesus Christ since Pentecost, do know that the Promise did come, and it is they who are being grafted in now.
They will be among the great multitude, whereby there is no difference between Jew and Gentile.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Romans 11 blows your entire theory out of the water.

How?? Explain this yourself. Prove it to see if your understanding of Romans 11 warrants it. Take your time.

You and all the replacement extra biblical adherents.

You do err, not knowing the Scripture.

Replacement Theology is not a phrase that is in the Bible. It is a phrase conjured up by those opposed to the truth of God's very own words concerning the Church and Israel, and it's meant to obfuscate the "real" issue. God is talking about YOU who falsely accused us of "antisemitic" or "replacement theology." God clearly said:

Hebrews 8:9-10

• "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
• For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"

The New Covenant with Israel. What Israel? It is NOT with a physical Nation, but with a spiritual people whom God has put His laws into their mind and written them in their hearts. It never was an everlasting Covenant with a physical nation (nor could it be), and so your false accusation of replacement of a nation is null and void. The nation only outwardly "represented" God's people, and clearly, according to God's word, that was subject to conditions. Far from being blessed people, God has pronounced judgment upon the Nation of Israel.

Matthew 21:42-43

• "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
• Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

Clearly, those are the Lord's words, not mine or someone else's private interpretation. The Kingdom representation has been taken from the nation of Israel. Selah! Therefore, how can YOUR theology teach that the Nation of Israel is STILL God's chosen people? Clearly, God has chosen to remove the kingdom or reign from them, and give it to another that will bring forth fruit which obviously the holy nation, the Church! What you falsely label Replacement Theology is Christ's Theology. Haven't you heard that Christ said there would be no fruit come from "the nation" Israel ever again? The "restoration of Israel," which is the real Biblical phrase, is accomplished in the rebuilding in Christ: the CHURCH! That is who the kingdom was given to and empowered to go forth to the whole world to preaceh the Gospel! Not in the heresy of physical governments/kingdoms or Temples or Blood Sacrifices in your pipe dream of Jewish fables or nation called "Israel". But in Christ, "The True Israel of God!"

Get it? I would not be surprised if you didn't or resisted this truth.

 

[TribulationSigns]

yep
So basic
There are reasons why the replacement doctrine adherents modify the bible.
The 144k are a huge setback to their folly.
They have embraced a doctrine that can not tolerate their existence
So they get real creative of how Rom11 and the 144k are Gods mistake when he vividly declared to be the opposite of their crafty bible switcheroo

You are so wrong on many levels.

The 144,000 is the spiritual number, not head count, representing ALL God's elect that John "HEARD". And then look around and saw the great multitudes of all same God Elect. God was talking about the same people, all of them from the Old Testament and the New Testament. But you are the one who tried to divide it into two groups with different salvation plans, one for Jewish 144,000 and one for Gentile great multitudes. There is only ONE WIFE, the bride of Christ which is New Jersualem. Read carefully:

Rev 21:9-17
(9) And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
(10) And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
(11) Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
(12) And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
(13) On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
(14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
(15) And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
(16) And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
(17) And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

See? This is 144,000 representing both the Old Testament saints (twelve tribes of the children of Israel) and the New Testament Saints (twelve apostles of the Lamb) BEING ONE GREAT CITY, New Jersualem, the BRIDE of Christ! In God's eyes, they ALL are basically "spiritual Jews" in Christ! That is what the number SIGNIFIES if you have spiritual discernment to understand it.

Hello??

 

[rebuilder 454]

You are so wrong on many levels.

The 144,000 is the spiritual number, not head count, representing ALL God's elect that John "HEARD". And then look around and saw the great multitudes of all same God Elect. God was talking about the same people, all of them from the Old Testament and the New Testament. But you are the one who tried to divide it into two groups with different salvation plans, one for Jewish 144,000 and one for Gentile great multitudes. There is only ONE WIFE, the bride of Christ which is New Jersualem. Read carefully:

Rev 21:9-17
(9) And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
(10) And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
(11) Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
(12) And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
(13) On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
(14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
(15) And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
(16) And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
(17) And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

See? This is 144,000 representing both the Old Testament saints (twelve tribes of the children of Israel) and the New Testament Saints (twelve apostles of the Lamb) BEING ONE GREAT CITY, New Jersualem, the BRIDE of Christ! They are basically all spiritual Jews in Christ!

Hello??

Looks like you have quite an investment in making all that up.
Nope.
It says they are FIRSTFRUIT JEWS.
A SMALL NUMBER OF A MAIN HARVEST OF JEWS.

Re read it like it is.
No need to make it into what you did.

 

[covenantee]

Looks like you have quite an investment in making all that up.
Nope.
It says they are FIRSTFRUIT JEWS.
A SMALL NUMBER OF A MAIN HARVEST OF JEWS.

Re read it like it is.
No need to make it into what you did.

You err.
Nowhere does Scripture say they were Jews.
The 144,000 in Revelation 7 were from the 12 tribes of Israel.
Israel throughout its history was comprised of both Jews and Gentiles. (Genesis 17:12; Exodus 12:48-49; Leviticus 19:34; Leviticus 24:22)
God's selection criteria were not racist.
Because God is not a racist.
But faith and obedience have always been His selection criteria.
From Israel, to today.
Without exception.
Including the 144,000.

 

[TribulationSigns]

It says they are FIRSTFRUIT JEWS.

Show us the Scripture where God said "Firstfruit Jews." So again, you do not know what you are talking about.

Re read it like it is.
No need to make it into what you did.

It seems foolish to a natural man like you. Didn't you read the Scripture?

1Co 2:13-14
(13) Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
(14) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Have a good night. :)

 

[Randy Kluth]

You can go to ten different Churches and you may hear ten different interpretations of just who the 144,000 of Revelation 7 are. For some reason, those who don't actually know, because they don't heed what is written there in Rev.7 as being literal, come up with all sorts of wild concoctions for who it means. But stick to God's Word as written, and it becomes revealed in simplicity.

Rev 7:1-4
7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

How can one take as literal something that obviously was not meant to be taken literally. If I read about a flying horse am I to take that literally?

The fact is, Israel's division into 12 tribes was prior to their joining into a nation under King Saul and King David. So the mention of 12 tribes was purely to show that God's promises are fulfilled in a limited number of Jews, who are the descendants of all 12 tribes.

This prophecy is all about God's faithfulness to His word, in the sense that He promised Abraham a nation of his descendants. And so, in the last days, the judgments about to fall on the earth will not be able to destroy the Jewish People, because there is a remnannt of them who will be Christian. And these stand in for the fulfillment of the entire nation when Christ returns.

 

[rebuilder 454]

How?? Explain this yourself. Prove it to see if your understanding of Romans 11 warrants it. Take your time.



You do err, not knowing the Scripture.

Replacement Theology is not a phrase that is in the Bible. It is a phrase conjured up by those opposed to the truth of God's very own words concerning the Church and Israel, and it's meant to obfuscate the "real" issue. God is talking about YOU!

Hebrews 8:9-10

• "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
• For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"

The New Covenant with Israel. What Israel? It is NOT with a physical Nation, but with a spiritual people whom God has put His laws into their mind and written them in their hearts. It never was an everlasting Covenant with a physical nation (nor could it be), and so your false accusation of replacement of a nation is null and void. The nation only outwardly "represented" God's people, and clearly, according to God's word, that was subject to conditions. Far from being blessed people, God has pronounced judgment upon the Nation of Israel.

Matthew 21:42-43

• "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
• Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

Clearly, those are the Lord's words, not mine or someone else's private interpretation. The Kingdom representation has been taken from the nation of Israel. Selah! Therefore, how can YOUR theology teach that the Nation of Israel is STILL God's chosen people? Clearly, God has chosen to remove the kingdom or reign from them, and give it to another that will bring forth fruit which obviously the holy nation, the Church! What you falsely label Replacement Theology is Christ's Theology. Haven't you heard that Christ said there would be no fruit come from "the nation" Israel ever again? The "restoration of Israel," which is the real Biblical phrase, is accomplished in the rebuilding in Christ. Not in the heresy of physical governments/kingdoms or Temples or Blood Sacrifices in your pipe dream of Jewish fables. But in Christ, "The True Israel of God!"

Get it? I would not be surprised if you didn't or resisted this truth.

like i said, rom 11 destroys your theory.
The bible does that regularly.
That is why you skipped rom 11 in your response to my expose of your error.
You skipped tge verses that expose your error.
SMH

Show us the Scripture where God said "Firstfruit Jews." So again, you do not know what you are talking about.


It seems foolish to a natural man like you. Didn't you read the Scripture?

1Co 2:13-14
(13) Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
(14) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Have a good night. :)

Why don't the replacement doctrine people quote rom 11?
Both Romans AND REVELATION designate the 144k AS JEWS.
Interesting the replacement doctrine errs on such basic facts.
144k definitely, unmistakenly Jews. A solid fact
144k firstfruits , which is a small portion of a whole.
Two facts that are contested in a poorly thought out theory

It is as if you were comissioned to shoot the barn. So you walked up to it with your double barrel shotgun, and got two feet away ,emptied both barrels, and missed.
Really?
A doctrine did that to you?????

 

[rebuilder 454]

Show us the Scripture where God said "Firstfruit Jews." So again, you do not know what you are talking about.


It seems foolish to a natural man like you. Didn't you read the Scripture?

1Co 2:13-14
(13) Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
(14) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Have a good night. :)

Don't blame your modification of Rom 11 and the book of rev on the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is NOT BEHIND your blatant restructuring of the bible.
144k Are, for a fact , Jews
144k are first fruits..a simple fact.
Your misplacement of verses is not in any way "spiritually discerned"
That is ridiculous my friend.

 

[rebuilder 454]

How?? Explain this yourself. Prove it to see if your understanding of Romans 11 warrants it. Take your time.



You do err, not knowing the Scripture.

Replacement Theology is not a phrase that is in the Bible. It is a phrase conjured up by those opposed to the truth of God's very own words concerning the Church and Israel, and it's meant to obfuscate the "real" issue. God is talking about YOU who falsely accused us of "antisemitic" or "replacement theology." God clearly said:

Hebrews 8:9-10

• "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
• For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"

The New Covenant with Israel. What Israel? It is NOT with a physical Nation, but with a spiritual people whom God has put His laws into their mind and written them in their hearts. It never was an everlasting Covenant with a physical nation (nor could it be), and so your false accusation of replacement of a nation is null and void. The nation only outwardly "represented" God's people, and clearly, according to God's word, that was subject to conditions. Far from being blessed people, God has pronounced judgment upon the Nation of Israel.

Matthew 21:42-43

• "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
• Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

Clearly, those are the Lord's words, not mine or someone else's private interpretation. The Kingdom representation has been taken from the nation of Israel. Selah! Therefore, how can YOUR theology teach that the Nation of Israel is STILL God's chosen people? Clearly, God has chosen to remove the kingdom or reign from them, and give it to another that will bring forth fruit which obviously the holy nation, the Church! What you falsely label Replacement Theology is Christ's Theology. Haven't you heard that Christ said there would be no fruit come from "the nation" Israel ever again? The "restoration of Israel," which is the real Biblical phrase, is accomplished in the rebuilding in Christ: the CHURCH! That is who the kingdom was given to and empowered to go forth to the whole world to preaceh the Gospel! Not in the heresy of physical governments/kingdoms or Temples or Blood Sacrifices in your pipe dream of Jewish fables or nation called "Israel". But in Christ, "The True Israel of God!"

Get it? I would not be surprised if you didn't or resisted this truth.

Rom 11
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes

NOW.
Take those verses and carefully apply them to the Jews in revelation.
They are dealt with SEPARATELY.
They are covenant people.
The wife gone awhoring.
The GT is jacobs trouble and God deals with them separately through tribulation to come back THROUGH REPENTANCE. To come to their messiah Jesus.
Note " till the times of the gentiles completed"
Solid facts and bible

 

[rebuilder 454]

to not understand all that is to miss ENTIRELY the purpose of the GT.

 

[Earburner]

You are so wrong on many levels.

The 144,000 is the spiritual number, not head count, representing ALL God's elect that John "HEARD". And then look around and saw the great multitudes of all same God Elect. God was talking about the same people, all of them from the Old Testament and the New Testament. But you are the one who tried to divide it into two groups with different salvation plans, one for Jewish 144,000 and one for Gentile great multitudes. There is only ONE WIFE, the bride of Christ which is New Jersualem. Read carefully:

Rev 21:9-17
(9) And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
(10) And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
(11) Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
(12) And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
(13) On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
(14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
(15) And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
(16) And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
(17) And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

See? This is 144,000 representing both the Old Testament saints (twelve tribes of the children of Israel) and the New Testament Saints (twelve apostles of the Lamb) BEING ONE GREAT CITY, New Jersualem, the BRIDE of Christ! In God's eyes, they ALL are basically "spiritual Jews" in Christ! That is what the number SIGNIFIES if you have spiritual discernment to understand it.

Hello??

Yes! Please see my post #189 for the details and depth of HOW the individuals of Israel are saved in both the OC and the NC.