Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?

[Eternally Grateful]

I never took it that she meant that, I took it to mean ,that it’s the Holy Spirit who overcomes the old man in us.

If Century lady, believes we can lose our salvation...then she is very much mistaken imo/ belief.

from what I have seen, She does..(she can correct me if I am wrong)

that's why I asked her that question

 

[1stCenturyLady]

this has nothing to do with OSAS. it has to do what Jesus said

He said he NEVER knew them, he did not say I knew you at one time, then you walked away, or you turned to sin. or you did this or that.. he said he never knew them

if they were saved at one time, they had a personal relationship with Jesus. And he would have known them at that time. so to say he never knew them, Jesus would be a liar.

I've thought about that two so seeing as the Word was in the beginning and knew who would accept Christ, it could be who endured to the end was WHO Christ KNEW in eternity.

 

[brightfame52]

If obedience is required. No one but Christ will see heaven,

because all have sinned and fall short of Gods standard..

No one is good enough

that is hard for the human mind to comprehend or even believe.. The flesh looks at self and says it is basically good. They do not commit these grave sins.. How dare you treat me the same as Hitler

but that's why it is so hard for the flesh to repent.. Because in order to be saved, you have to fall, as the tax collector did. and say YOU are not worthy.. Its not about what Hitler or anyone did, its what YOU DID.

thats why the gate is narrow. and so few will enter in

The tax collector did what He did by the power and grace of Jesus one obedience making him righteous.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I've thought about that two so seeing as the Word was in the beginning and knew who would accept Christ, it could be who endured to the end was WHO Christ KNEW in eternity.

or it could be those who received him as John said in the same chapter..(vs 12) ?

No one will or can endure to the end and live up to Gods standard.. If we are required to do that, we will all be lost..

 

[BarneyFife]

But doesn’t he grant everything that is good?

I guess I was suggesting that the fact that repentance is granted doesn't make it any less a matter of obedience than any other duty we owe to God.

 

[Keiw]

The saved were saved by the obedience of One !

Yes, and their own obedience as well. Heb 5:9-salvation to those obedient. 2Thess 1:8= Vengeance on those who do not obey.

 

[Keiw]

or it could be those who received him as John said in the same chapter..(vs 12) ?

No one will or can endure to the end and live up to Gods standard.. If we are required to do that, we will all be lost..

Daniel was thrown into the lions den, he endured. One must do the best of their ability to God. None of us are perfect.

 

[Keiw]

Explain what we must do to be saved.

Jesus summed it up at John 17:3 and Matt 7:21--- verse 17:3=This means eternal life, their knowing you( Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Jesus Christ. 7:21= Those living ( now) to do Jesus' Fathers will, get to enter his kingdom= over oneself's will.

Jesus taught-Few will find the road.. Can you see why from those 2 verses i shared?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Daniel was thrown into the lions den, he endured. One must do the best of their ability to God. None of us are perfect.

Daniel did not endure

God protected him by shutting the lions mouth..

once daniel was removed, He opened their mouth and daniels accusers were taken

Its amazing you give Daniel credit there. Daniel did nothing but trust God

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, and their own obedience as well. Heb 5:9-salvation to those obedient. 2Thess 1:8= Vengeance on those who do not obey.

Thats false and contrary to the Gospel Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[Keiw]

Daniel did not endure

God protected him by shutting the lions mouth..

once daniel was removed, He opened their mouth and daniels accusers were taken

Its amazing you give Daniel credit there. Daniel did nothing but trust God

Thats what it takes-Faith that God will get you through.

 

[Keiw]

Thats false and contrary to the Gospel Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Yes made righteous because they learned and obeyed. No contradiction.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thats what it takes-Faith that God will get you through.

God did not get him through

God saved him

God did not have to. And God would still be glorified. God did not save everyone who was put to death..

 

[Keiw]

God did not get him through

God saved him

God did not have to. And God would still be glorified. God did not save everyone who was put to death..

No he didn't save everyone. Satan challenged God to his face concerning Job and all. He said-none would follow God unless God protected them and gave them much. So it is being proven wrong,, just like the issues raised in Eden are being proven wrong. God had a further purpose for Daniel on earth.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No one will or can endure to the end and live up to Gods standard.. If we are required to do that, we will all be lost..

Now that would make Jesus a bully, so I do not believe that for an instant. Jesus said for us to be holy as He is holy. 1 Peter 1:16. If what you believe was true then it would be impossible. But it is not true, EG. Believe the truth:

He provided the New Covenant that is so much easier than the Old Covenant.

The Old Covenant had the standard you were talking about but we had to keep God's laws through a sin nature in opposition to God's laws! Impossible! That is why for those Old Covenant saints/sinners that were believing in and waiting for their Messiah, God overlooked the sins they had previously committed. Romans 3:25.

In the New Covenant all we have to do is recognize our own inability to live up to God's standards as you say. That is true repentance. Then instead of still trying to be good while still imprisoned by the sin nature, He TAKES AWAY the SIN out of our nature! That sin nature is the "Old Man" and it was crucified with Christ. Romans 6:5-7.

EG, Jesus does it all. Jesus provides His own Spirit to dwell inside of us to write God's laws on our conscience. See, that makes us be able to keep laws that are now IN LINE with our clean nature. And not only that, but we are able to ABIDE IN THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE and HE IN US! That means instead of JUST righteous, we can be HOLY!

Isn't that great!?!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Jesus summed it up at John 17:3 and Matt 7:21--- verse 17:3=This means eternal life, their knowing you( Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Jesus Christ. 7:21= Those living ( now) to do Jesus' Fathers will, get to enter his kingdom= over oneself's will.

Jesus taught-Few will find the road.. Can you see why from those 2 verses i shared?

John 17 and Matthew 7 are two of my favorite chapters. John 15 also.

One reason I have assurance of salvation even though I believe the doctrine of OSAS is heresy is because I experienced the filling of the Holy Spirit and according to the OP DO obey God. He has written His laws on my conscience and I never go against my conscience. It is so easy, and that is all any of us have to do be be pleasing in God's sight. Not only that as in verse 22, all my prayers ARE answered. The most important thing we must do as Christians to keep ourselves is to ABIDE IN CHRIST, AND HE IN US. That is not just for major laws, but for maturing ALL the fruit of the Spirit.

There is also a warning for all those who believe the heresy of OSAS. But the real truth is written in the Word.


1 John 3:21-24
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

John 15:1-4
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He [a]takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

 

[Ritajanice]

Jesus does it all. Jesus provides His own Spirit to dwell inside of us to write God's laws on our conscience. See, that makes us be able to keep laws that are now IN LINE with our clean nature. And not only that, but we are able to ABIDE IN THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE and HE IN US! That means instead of JUST righteous, we can be HOLY!

100% agree!.....Amen!!

 

[brightfame52]

Yes made righteous because they learned and obeyed. No contradiction.

Yes it is a contradiction, a denial of Rom 5:19, according to Rom 5:19 how were the many made righteous ?

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Also while you ponder that, how were the many made sinners according to the same verse ?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Now that would make Jesus a bully, so I do not believe that for an instant. Jesus said for us to be holy as He is holy.

So Jesus would be a bully for enforcing the law he created?
Sadly, it seams that is the mindset today. and look at all the crime and lovelessness which is caused by it.

1 Peter 1:16. If what you believe was true then it would be impossible. But it is not true, EG. Believe the truth:

God will judge. we will all stand on judgment day

But eternal life is not based on what you do or do not do. Its based on the cross.

He provided the New Covenant that is so much easier than the Old Covenant.

Are you sure of that. The covenant you are speaking of is not really much better, I can still be judged for my sin and cast out into outer darkness

The Old Covenant had the standard you were talking about

The standard I am talking about was before the world. Jesus told Adam, on the day you eat you will die.. Can killed his brother.. He was punished for his sin.

God calls all to be perfect. Your first sin makes you unqualified to get to heaven of your own works. Your guilty. The law was given to just prove to you your guilt so it can lead you to christ, who fulfilled the law by shedding his blood for your sin.

but we had to keep God's laws through a sin nature in opposition to God's laws! Impossible! That is why for those Old Covenant saints/sinners that were believing in and waiting for their Messiah, God overlooked the sins they had previously committed. Romans 3:25.

He paid for those sins, Thats why he overlooked them. otherwise he would have had to send them all to the grave (hades) because their sins were not yet paid

In the New Covenant all we have to do is recognize our own inability to live up to God's standards as you say. That is true repentance. Then instead of still trying to be good while still imprisoned by the sin nature, He TAKES AWAY the SIN out of our nature! That sin nature is the "Old Man" and it was crucified with Christ. Romans 6:5-7.

EG, Jesus does it all. Jesus provides His own Spirit to dwell inside of us to write God's laws on our conscience. See, that makes us be able to keep laws that are now IN LINE with our clean nature. And not only that, but we are able to ABIDE IN THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE and HE IN US! That means instead of JUST righteous, we can be HOLY!

Isn't that great!?!

So you are one who claims you are sinless. That you 100% of the time love all people including your enemy, and never for even 1 second put yourself above another?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No one will or can endure to the end and live up to Gods standard.. If we are required to do that, we will all be lost..

Are you sure of that. The covenant you are speaking of is not really much better, I can still be judged for my sin and cast out into outer darkness

So you are one who claims you are sinless. That you 100% of the time love all people including your enemy, and never for even 1 second put yourself above another?

Unfortunately, not everyone calling themselves a Christian has repented and been born again of the Spirit so cannot even begin to relate to Jesus taking away all desire to sin.

What have you been taught that the New Covenant is? It seems you believe in the Old Covenant and have just added Jesus' cross to it.