Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?

[brightfame52]

I don’t know about that...for me..., needs further study..I’m certainly not taking your word for it.

We must be Born Again.....we don’t need to read all this jargon you speak of here, makes no sense to me..maybe @Eternally Grateful can help me understand?
I wait on God..thanks.

Thats fine

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Humility is a condition of salvation......

Psalm 51:17
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

So few show this condition has been displayed in their hearts nor as a continuous FRUIT of the Spirit!

You are KNOWN by the words you project. True character cannot be hidden.

 

[brightfame52]

Humility is a condition of salvation......

Psalm 51:17
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

So few show this condition has been displayed in their hearts nor as a continuous FRUIT of the Spirit!

You are KNOWN by the words you project. True character cannot be hidden. Then you wonder why your life has been a shipwreck of corrupted faith for 30 yrs!.......lol

Christ was humble in His One obedience that makes many righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Phil 2:8

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I think/ believe, you are very much mistaken, a Born Again belongs to God and their freewill is to do God’s will, also if he speaks to you through the Spirit, tells you not to do something, you best not do it, in fact you wouldn’t dare do it.....So, what is God saying here.?

I believe the same thing, but I've been walking in the Spirit for a long time (46 years). My will is to do what my conscience directs me to do and nothing against it. This is where we find our peace - no guilt. I love abiding in Jesus, and being directed by Him. I can ask for a gift of the Spirit and receive it immediately. That is how strong our relationship is. The gift I asked for and received a couple months ago is phenomenal. I can test a sermon as it is being preached. The pastor preaching it suddenly has a glow around them about 10 inches wide. My pastor's is pure white so is of the Holy Spirit. But I visited a church with a missionary friend and when the pastor started preaching his was like smoke. It was black. He was very funny and told jokes, but I didn't receive anything edifying from his sermon.

As far as free will in a clean nature, that is how Adam was created. It is also how a born again of the Spirit Christian can QUENCH the Spirit. You cannot quench the Spirit unless you have Him to quench. That is why being equally yoked with other Christians is important. Heed all the warnings in the New Testament. They are to either seek to become a bona fide Spirit filled Christian and become free of sin; or to guard your true relationship with God during dry times of trials and testing. I've been through them all! Now I'm making sure every fruit of the Spirit is mature. And continuing to learn the one interpretation of all Scripture. The lastest one was Matthew 7:21-23 has to do with the fruit of the Spirit, not lawlessness. Add the verses before it to see.

Ephesians 1:4-6​

King James Version​

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Here Paul is writing his introduction. He is claiming to be one of the chosen apostles who were the only individuals that were ever predestined, not like the false doctrine of Calvinists. Those of us who believe his word are predestined to be conformed into the image of God once we are born again of the Spirit. The predestination is what, not a who. Verse 12 shows Paul and the rest of the apostles were among the FIRST TO BELIEVE. Now verse 13 Paul is addressing those who ALSO believe. That plan of becoming like Christ was created before Adam even sinned. God in His foreknowledge knew Satan would sin, and cause Adam and Eve to sin.

1 Corinthians 6:15-20​

King James Version​

15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

This has to do with fornicating with temple prostitutes. (The goddess Diana). The reason why Paul says joining with a harlot.

 

[Keiw]

Few enter through the narrow gate because few are truly trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation (John 3:15,16,18; 10:9; 14:6; Acts 10:43; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 4:5-6 etc..) and instead are trusting in works for salvation. (Matthew 7:22-23)

One must do both. Trust in Jesus and do works to build a strong living faith, and repent. And they must worship the Father in spirit and truth-John 4:22-24

 

[Keiw]

No it doesnt, Rom 5:19 is still true, many are saved, made righteous by ones One Obedience

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The few that find life are the many Christ by His obedience made righteous.

Yes= the little flock( Luke 12:32)= the anointed bride of Christ=144,000 bought from the earth( Rev 14:3)-and the great crowd( Rev 7:9) no man can number= the other sheep( John 10:16) who are not of that fold( Rev 14:3)-- the only ones being saved. 99% on earth are mislead.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Few enter through the narrow gate because few are truly trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation (John 3:15,16,18; 10:9; 14:6; Acts 10:43; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 4:5-6 etc..) and instead are trusting in works for salvation. (Matthew 7:22-23)

What does Matthew 7:22-23 have to do with works. Before Christ works cannot save us, but after salvation it is our natural inclination with Christ in us to do goo works. That is what sanctification is - set apart for good works.

 

[mailmandan]

What does Matthew 7:22-23 have to do with works. Before Christ works cannot save us, but after salvation it is our natural inclination with Christ in us to do goo works. That is what sanctification is - set apart for good works.

Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

These many people were trusting in works to save them and not in Christ alone. Jesus never knew them (vs. 23) which means they were never saved. Without faith it's impossible to please God.

The correct answer for these people would have been, Lord, Lord, you died for our sins, were buried and rose again the 3rd day to provide for us eternal life. We trust in you as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

We are saved for good works and not by good works. (Ephesians 2:10) Ongoing sanctification follows justification.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

These many people were trusting in works to save them and not in Christ alone. Jesus never knew them (vs. 23) which means they were never saved. Without faith it's impossible to please God.

The correct answer for these people would have been, Lord, Lord, you died for our sins, were buried and rose again the 3rd day to provide for us eternal life. We trust in you as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

We are saved for good works and not by good works. (Ephesians 2:10) Ongoing sanctification follows justification.

Oh my, is that what you think is the purpose of that verse? NO! What you are showing was IN SPITE OF THOSE GOOD THINGS Jesus didn't know them because of WHAT?

 

[brightfame52]

Yes= the little flock( Luke 12:32)= the anointed bride of Christ=144,000 bought from the earth( Rev 14:3)-and the great crowd( Rev 7:9) no man can number= the other sheep( John 10:16) who are not of that fold( Rev 14:3)-- the only ones being saved. 99% on earth are mislead.

The saved were saved by the obedience of One !

 

[brightfame52]

mailmandan

The correct answer for these people would have been, Lord, Lord, you died for our sins, were buried and rose again the 3rd day to provide for us eternal life. We trust in you as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

So did His death, burial and resurrection for the sins of them He died for, ensure their eternal salvation ? And what does it mean "We trust in you as the all sufficient means of our salvation"

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The saved were saved by the obedience of One !

Romans 8:29-30

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Broaden your knowledge brightfame52!

Now Is Jesus the only one who needs to be obedient? His followers are conformed to be like Him, so are we to be obedient or just Him?

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 8:29-30

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Broaden your knowledge brightfame52!

Now Is Jesus the only one who needs to be obedient? His followers are conformed to be like Him, so are we to be obedient or just Him?

The saved were saved by the obedience of One?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The saved were saved by the obedience of One?

Explain what we must do to be saved.

 

[Ritajanice]

I believe the same thing, but I've been walking in the Spirit for a long time (46 years). My will is to do what my conscience directs me to do and nothing against it. This is where we find our peace - no guilt. I love abiding in Jesus, and being directed by Him. I can ask for a gift of the Spirit and receive it immediately. That is how strong our relationship is. The gift I asked for and received a couple months ago is phenomenal. I can test a sermon as it is being preached. The pastor preaching it suddenly has a glow around them about 10 inches wide. My pastor's is pure white so is of the Holy Spirit. But I visited a church with a missionary friend and when the pastor started preaching his was like smoke. It was black. He was very funny and told jokes, but I didn't receive anything edifying from his sermon.

I’ve been walking in the Spirit for over 30 yrs, yes, I agree, my will is to do what my conscience directs me to do..indeed, this is most definitely where we find our peace...I also love being obedient to Jesus....God has no favourites either...he doesn’t LOVE you anymore than he loves me or anyone else...

I also understand about your preacher as well, the glow, I also have seen that around a person..unfortunately that’s all I can share, or that God will allow me to share....

As far as free will in a clean nature, that is how Adam was created. It is also how a born again of the Spirit Christian can QUENCH the Spirit. You cannot quench the Spirit unless you have Him to quench. That is why being equally yoked with other Christians is important. Heed all the warnings in the New Testament. They are to either seek to become a bona fide Spirit filled Christian and become free of sin; or to guard your true relationship with God during dry times of trials and testing. I've been through them all! Now I'm making sure every fruit of the Spirit is mature. And continuing to learn the one interpretation of all Scripture. The lastest one was Matthew 7:21-23 has to do with the fruit of the Spirit, not lawlessness. Add the verses before it to see.

I have been set free from sin, in fact the night I was birthed in the Spirit..and God had forgiven my sin, it was all on Jesus, ..a weight had been lifted , like a physical weight.

Sinning afterwards has always confused me...NOT NOW...it’s the old man in us that sin, it’s not our new nature, our new heart/ Spirit is in Christ ,and it does NOT want to sin , but it’s the old man, ..as we walk and mature in Christ, that old man dies, it will never die completely, not until we are reunited with our Father in heaven..

We are also being sanctified daily, you do not make yourself into the image of Christ...that is the role of the Holy Spirit who indwells our heart....we learn through him to surrender and be obedient.....he is the one making us into the image of Jesus...so , I rest in him to do that..your fruit of the Spirit will never be fully mature....because you still throw hissy fits as do I.......the enemy is always trying to destroy our relationship with God and whispers those lies into our head....I’m well aware of that....thanks to the Holy Spirit .

Here Paul is writing his introduction. He is claiming to be one of the chosen apostles who were the only individuals that were ever predestined, not like the false doctrine of Calvinists. Those of us who believe his word are predestined to be conformed into the image of God once we are born again of the Spirit. The predestination is what, not a who. Verse 12 shows Paul and the rest of the apostles were among the FIRST TO BELIEVE. Now verse 13 Paul is addressing those who ALSO believe. That plan of becoming like Christ was created before Adam even sinned. God in His foreknowledge knew Satan would sin, and cause Adam and Eve to sin.

We were chosen by God...or we were known by God that we would believe..personally I believe God chose me ,God is the one who chooses and knew before the foundation of the world, he knew his own in our mothers womb he brought me to Godly sorrow/ repentance...much more to it than that.....I am not agreeing with your interpretation of what Paul is saying..., so, I can’t take your word for it.......

Doctrine of Calvin?.....explain?

 

[Ritajanice]

Oh my, is that what you think is the purpose of that verse? NO! What you are showing was IN SPITE OF THOSE GOOD THINGS Jesus didn't know them because of WHAT?

They weren’t Born Again?

I know you are supposedly a “ Teacher”...I see and understand a lot of what you say, so, I don’t doubt that.


I won’t engage with any “ TROLLS”on this forum.... as it’s fruitless and quite frankly, no truth of God’s word , just arguing....and name calling...immaturity...

 

[MatthewG]

Paul makes it clear for those who are looking to become mature in spirit moving forward from being born again and everything say. Dying to the old life, and putting of its tendancies however as human beings we still reside in our flesh - which those who are born again have the Spirit of Christ to hold that back, as the individual walks by faith, and walks in the spirit. Our flesh will come back from time to time, until the very last time when - moving on from this life, to the next life.

Colossians 3:8-11​

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New King James Version​

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8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

Romans 6:6​

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New King James Version​

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6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be [a]done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

Ephesians 4:22​

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New King James Version​

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22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,

All in love,
Matthew

 

[mailmandan]

mailmandan

So did His death, burial and resurrection for the sins of them He died for, ensure their eternal salvation ? And what does it mean "We trust in you as the all sufficient means of our salvation"

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures..

We must trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation in order to be saved. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Sadly, many instead are trusting in works for salvation (at least in part) and not in Christ alone.

 

[Ritajanice]

Obedience is not a condition of salvation....it’s after we have been birthed in the spirit, only then, as we are in Christ, we have that new nature/ heart/ spirit within.

We LEARN to be obedient to God, through our helper , the Holy Spirit...we have just started a new relationship with God, which like any relationship, takes time to develop and grow.

A Living relationship with God is beyond any other relationship....he’s number one , no one on the planet can match God!....it’s an Honour and a Privilege to belong to God.

John 3:3-8

King James Version

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3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

John 3:8​

“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

Romans 8​

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King James Version​

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8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[mailmandan]

They weren’t Born Again?

Absolutely. Jesus never knew them. (Matthew 7:23) John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him and not merely theoretical knowledge. This relationship with Jesus is a two-way street that these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 did not have.