Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?

[brightfame52]

Explain what we must do to be saved.

Explain exactly what you mean by that question please. For now Im explaining what Christ did to save many, are you not interested in that ? Thats the Gospel, Good News.

 

[brightfame52]

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures..

We must trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation in order to be saved. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Sadly, many instead are trusting in works for salvation (at least in part) and not in Christ alone.

So is it fair to say, you dont believe that the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ alone as it pertains to who He died for, ensure their salvation ?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I also understand about your preacher as well, the glow, I also have seen that around a person..unfortunately that’s all I can share, or that God will allow me to share....

Can you say if you see it on anyone in the audience, or just on who is preaching when he is preaching.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Oh my, is that what you think is the purpose of that verse? NO! What you are showing was IN SPITE OF THOSE GOOD THINGS Jesus didn't know them because of WHAT?

Because they were NEVER SAVED

Because they (like the jews) thought they were already saved because of the works they did

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Obedience is not a condition of salvation....it’s after we have been birthed in the spirit, only then, as we are in Christ, we have that new nature/ heart/ spirit within.

We LEARN to be obedient to God, through our helper , the Holy Spirit...we have just started a new relationship with God, which like any relationship, takes time to develop and grow.

A Living relationship with God is beyond any other relationship....he’s number one , no one on the planet can match God!....it’s an Honour and a Privilege to belong to God.

John 3:3-8​

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King James Version​

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3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

John 3:8​

“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

Romans 8​

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King James Version​

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8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If obedience is required. No one but Christ will see heaven,

because all have sinned and fall short of Gods standard..

No one is good enough

that is hard for the human mind to comprehend or even believe.. The flesh looks at self and says it is basically good. They do not commit these grave sins.. How dare you treat me the same as Hitler

but that's why it is so hard for the flesh to repent.. Because in order to be saved, you have to fall, as the tax collector did. and say YOU are not worthy.. Its not about what Hitler or anyone did, its what YOU DID.

thats why the gate is narrow. and so few will enter in

 

[1stCenturyLady]

They weren’t Born Again?

I know you are supposedly a “ Teacher”...I see and understand a lot of what you say, so, I don’t doubt that.


I won’t engage with any “ TROLLS”on this forum.... as it’s fruitless and quite frankly, no truth of God’s word , just arguing....and name calling...immaturity...

I assume they had received gifts of the Spirit to operate in them and the only way to receive those is becoming born again of the Spirit and their desire to break the ten commandments is taken away. But even with the Spirit we have free will to grieve and even quench the Spirit. And Peter talks of false teachers that convince sin doesn't matter anymore because we've been freed from the Law, and our liberty is to do whatever we want to do.

2 Peter 2:

Depravity of False Teachers​

12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness [h]forever.

Deceptions of False Teachers
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I assume they had received gifts of the Spirit to operate in them

what makes you think this? Just asking

also, Jesus said he NEVER KNEW them.. Did Jesus make a mistake?

 

[Ritajanice]

Can you say if you see it on anyone in the audience, or just on who is preaching when he is preaching.

I saw it on another Born Again in church...and I know it was of God, because at the same time, he delivered something to my heart......I didn’t understand it at the time..I 100% understand it now....after 30 yrs, he brought me back to that same person 3 and a half years ago...that’s all I can share.....

God’s will is being done...I went from 100% not believing what he revealed to me through the Spirit....to 100% believing ....I now have that God given faith to believe what he revealed to my heart all those years ago..faith has to be exercised.....

 

[Ritajanice]

I assume they had received gifts of the Spirit to operate in them and the only way to receive those is becoming born again of the Spirit and their desire to break the ten commandments is taken away. But even with the Spirit we have free will to grieve and even quench the Spirit. And Peter talks of false teachers that convince sin doesn't matter anymore because we've been freed from the Law, and our liberty is to do whatever we want to do.

Sin very much matters..and a true Born Again doesn’t want to sin, all they want to do is please God and be obedient..but, they can’t do that in their own strength..they look to the Holy Spirit, to help them overcome the old man in them.

2 Peter 2:

Depravity of False Teachers​

12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness [h]forever.

Deceptions of False Teachers
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

I don’t understand the rest of your post.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Because they were NEVER SAVED

Because they (like the jews) thought they were already saved because of the works they did

Some have believed the perverted version of OSAS, and not the truth of 1 John 3:21-24. Study that and look who is actually assured of salvation?

A person can receive the Holy Spirit and only practice the gifts, but never ABIDE IN JESUS. That is not only key to us being cleansed of our major moral sins 1 John 3:24, but the maturing of the fruit of the Spirit, John 15:4. It is up to us whether or not we ABIDE IN JESUS, in order for Him to abide in us. That is like a marriage that is consummated. Is our salvation unconsummated or consummated spiritually. We MUST become one with Jesus and DO His will. Remember His Bride is spotless!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Sin very much matters..and a true Born Again doesn’t want to sin, all they want to do is please God and be obedient..but, they can’t do that in their own strength..they look to the Holy Spirit, to help them overcome the old man in them.

I don’t understand the rest of your post.

It is not us that "overcomes" the old man in us. It is all Jesus. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our Faith.

You see the old man becomes crucified with Christ. We don't hang ourselves on Christ's cross, nor in our own power do we resurrect ourselves. That is ALL supernatural, and very much real. Would you like me to send you my testimony of my supernatural experience?

Romans 6:5-11, 22.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.... 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Here is the part I wanted you to see at the end of 2 Peter 2. I like to add the context for you to see the whole picture.

20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

 

[Ritajanice]

It is not us that "overcomes" the old man in us. It is all Jesus. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our Faith.

That is what I meant, sorry for the confusion....and he does it all in his timing.

You see the old man becomes crucified with Christ. We don't hang ourselves on Christ's cross, nor in our own power do we resurrect ourselves. That is ALL supernatural, and very much real. Would you like me to send you my testimony of my supernatural experience?

Romans 6:5-11, 22.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.... 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Here is the part I wanted you to see at the end of 2 Peter 2. I like to add the context for you to see the whole picture.

20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

 

[Ritajanice]

You see the old man becomes crucified with Christ. We don't hang ourselves on Christ's cross, nor in our own power do we resurrect ourselves. That is ALL supernatural, and very much real. Would you like me to send you my testimony of my supernatural experience?

No,it’s ok, I believe your supernatural experience....I had a supernatural experience as well, I was supernaturally birthed in the Spirit...and you well know it can’t be explained.

Some don’t know what I’m talking about, when I say I have been birthed in the Spirit.

Some have also said its in my mind.

God’s word is so powerful and mind blowing...I don’t care what others say...my faith just keeps on getting stronger and stronger..I’m Born Again and I 100% know it, because God delivered his word, straight to my heart!.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Some have believed the perverted version of OSAS, and not the truth of 1 John 3:21-24. Study that and look who is actually assured of salvation?

A person can receive the Holy Spirit and only practice the gifts, but never ABIDE IN JESUS. That is not only key to us being cleansed of our major moral sins 1 John 3:24, but the maturing of the fruit of the Spirit, John 15:4. It is up to us whether or not we ABIDE IN JESUS, in order for Him to abide in us. That is like a marriage that is consummated. Is our salvation unconsummated or consummated spiritually. We MUST become one with Jesus and DO His will. Remember His Bride is spotless!

this has nothing to do with OSAS. it has to do what Jesus said

He said he NEVER knew them, he did not say I knew you at one time, then you walked away, or you turned to sin. or you did this or that.. he said he never knew them

if they were saved at one time, they had a personal relationship with Jesus. And he would have known them at that time. so to say he never knew them, Jesus would be a liar.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is not us that "overcomes" the old man in us. It is all Jesus. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our Faith.

so then, How can we lose our salvation, if it is all God?

 

[Ritajanice]

so then, How can we lose our salvation, if it is all God?

I never took it that she meant that, I took it to mean ,that it’s the Holy Spirit who overcomes the old man in us.

If Century lady, believes we can lose our salvation...then she is very much mistaken imo/ belief.

 

[BarneyFife]

Obedience is not a condition of salvation

Actually, however unintentional it may be, the title of the thread is a trick question.

Isn't obeying the call to repentance and confession necessary for salvation?

Can these things be withheld with a reasonable expectation of salvation?

The message of the Bible is (among many):

Obey and live; disobey and die.

This is not a popular view today, but when I was a young fella it was understood by all—even the lowest of criminals.

.

 

[Ritajanice]

Actually, however unintentional it may be, the title of the thread is a trick question.

Isn't obeying the call to repentance and confession necessary for salvation?

Can these things be withheld with a reasonable expectation of salvation?

The message of the Bible is (among many):

Obey and live; disobey and die.

This is not a popular view today, but when I was a young fella it was understood by all—even the lowest of criminals.

.

Of course, but, only God can bring / lead us to repentance...we must repent before we can be birthed in the Spirit...God imo/ belief won’t forgive us..unless our heart is truly repentant.

In Acts 11:18, we read that “to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.” And in 2 Timothy 2:25, Paul says that we must gently instruct those who oppose us in the hope that “God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth.” God grants repentance.

2 Corinthians 7:10

King James Version

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10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation

 

[BarneyFife]

God grants repentance.

Fair enough, in fact, I couldn't agree more, but doesn't He grant everything that is good?

 

[Ritajanice]

Fair enough, in fact, I couldn't agree more, but doesn't He grant everything that is good?

But doesn’t he grant everything that is good?