The 144,000 before God at the end.

[The Light]

All that and not one pre-trib rapture verse!

Or so it seems to you. However, it seems you have no eyes to see.
That could change..........tomorrow, I suspect. Sleep well and wake up easy amongst the kaos to come.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Who appointed you the authority on what is symbolic and what is not?

If 144K (an obviously symbolic number) Jews are literal, then so are their seals.

Nope
It is way too explicit to just make it symbolic.
Ascribing symbolic to it kinda helps your doctrine maybe?

 

[rebuilder 454]

All that and not one pre-trib rapture verse!

So we can overlook noah, lot, rev 19, rev 14, the last supper dialogue and the 2 escape verses?
While we are at it we might as well ignore the fact that the Antichrist kills everyone that does not take the mark. Leaving your supposition of a postrib rapture with no one that is a Christian to rapture

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nope
It is way too explicit to just make it symbolic.
Ascribing symbolic to it kinda helps your doctrine maybe?

its amazing people who want to take prophecy and make it as if God does not know what he is talking about

 

[David in NJ]

So we can overlook noah, lot, rev 19, rev 14, the last supper dialogue and the 2 escape verses?
While we are at it we might as well ignore the fact that the Antichrist kills everyone that does not take the mark. Leaving your supposition of a postrib rapture with no one that is a Christian to rapture

Noah, Lot, Rev 19, Rev 14 = these are all Post-Trib accounts

Can you find at least one clear unambiguous 'pre-trib' rapture declaration/prophecy.......!!!

 

[David in NJ]

Or so it seems to you. However, it seems you have no eyes to see.
That could change..........tomorrow, I suspect. Sleep well and wake up easy amongst the kaos to come.

Holy Spirit Prophecy 2023 = There will be no pre-trib rapture in 2023

 

[rwb]

We have things becoming very clear and unveiling right before our eyes in these last days, so lets take a look at those who will be standing before God as the 144,000..

“1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.”Revelation 14:1-5.

Now those who stand at the end while Christ still intercedes for us in the Most Holy Place will need to like Him. Christ kept His Father's commandments, and there was no sin in Him that Satan could use to his advantage. This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the end

So we have a world who are not all Gods people, composed of two groups, the true followers of God and then the others whose hearts and minds are not cleansed and not ready for Christ, this is the church militant. So there are those on the side of Satan will be left out and will perish, and the people who are His, sealed and prepared to go with Christ to His kingdowm.

We find in 2 Corinthians 1:21-23

“21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts”

So the saints throughout the ages have been sealed, and yet those who are the 144,000 also need to be sealed as they prepare for the coming of the Lord. Now is the time to prepare, not at when its too late and Christ has appeared and probation closed. The seal of God needs to be put on His people before the Second Coming, but some think they can continue in sin and iniquity till Christ comes.

Hebrews describes the role of Jesus as our mediator in heaven. We read in John 16:25-27..

“25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.”

So a time will come when Jesus will not pray to the Father on our behalf, because we will know that “the Father himself loves us.” In John 16, Jesus promises us a time will come when we won’t have a mediator because we won’t need one for those that truly know and love Christ. So the 144,000 are sealed and alive at the Second Coming and stand without a mediator, but then why only 144,000. I think we can find that answer in the following verse, Daniel 12:1...

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." Daniel 12:1.

The time of trouble such as never was will be devastating, and many even of the saints will not live through it and be put to sleep in the grave during this time. It is the living saints who are the 144,000 at the end, while those saints asleep in Christ who are sealed, will be brought up in the clouds to be taken to heaven.

Are not these 144,000 the same group we find in Rev 7... 144,000 from all the tribes of the children of Israel?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Are not these 144,000 the same group we find in Rev 7... 144,000 from all the tribes of the children of Israel?

yes.
ethnic Jews.
vividly portrayed as a literal group of earth's inhabitants.
Then those same ethnic Jews in heaven, later on, as glorified believers worshipping at the throne of God. (rev 14).
They are relatively small in number because they are designate "first fruits" (a small percentage of main harvest Jews.)

That is how it reads without additives, dilutants, or a need for it to be something it is not.
Just sayin

 

[rebuilder 454]

Noah, Lot, Rev 19, Rev 14 = these are all Post-Trib accounts

Can you find at least one clear unambiguous 'pre-trib' rapture declaration/prophecy.......!!!

"before the flood" That is Jesus.
You change it to "after the flood, Noah is taken".
"Before sodom destroyed, Lot it taken out". That is Jesus words
You change it to "after sodom destroyed Lot is taken out."

Rev 19 the saints on white horses IN HEAVEN DURING THE TRIB.
You change it to ????? whatever your doctrine permits, and devising the rapture that can not be in association with the white horses.

You ever actually use verses to connect the dots.??????
Friend, their is no possible way the rapture has any connection to the white horses.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Holy Spirit Prophecy 2023 = There will be no pre-trib rapture in 2023

could be.
The thing is, when it does happen, He is only coming for those with full lamps, and are watching for him.
When it does happen , it will be too late to repent.
Mat 25.. Half the virgins (blood bought saints) will be left behind to refuse the mark and be martyred.

(you heard it here first....be wary)

 

[covenantee]

Are not these 144,000 the same group we find in Rev 7... 144,000 from all the tribes of the children of Israel?

Bro, I see the NT Church of faithful obedient saints in the 144,000 of Revelation 14. Unlike Revelation 7, there is no mention of tribes, and they follow the Lamb, clear allusions to the NT Church. They also sing a new song, which is true only of the New Testament Church.

Thus the faithful obedient saints of the NT Church in Revelation 14, combined with the faithful obedient saints of the OT in Revelation 7, comprise the entirety of God's Chosen People through the ages.

 

[David in NJ]

"before the flood" That is Jesus.
You change it to "after the flood, Noah is taken".
"Before sodom destroyed, Lot it taken out". That is Jesus words
You change it to "after sodom destroyed Lot is taken out."

Rev 19 the saints on white horses IN HEAVEN DURING THE TRIB.
You change it to ????? whatever your doctrine permits, and devising the rapture that can not be in association with the white horses.

You ever actually use verses to connect the dots.??????
Friend, their is no possible way the rapture has any connection to the white horses.

The FLOOD is God's WRATH

The Great Tribulation was on earth BEFORE Noah entered the ARK

Noah was in the ARK for 7 days before God poured out His Wrath

7 is God's Signature of SALVATION which is CHRIST = "on the 7th Day God Rested"

We see the spirits of the Saints in Heaven - there are no resurrected Saints in Revelation = 1 Thess ch3 & ch4

 

[David in NJ]

could be.
The thing is, when it does happen, He is only coming for those with full lamps, and are watching for him.
When it does happen , it will be too late to repent.
Mat 25.. Half the virgins (blood bought saints) will be left behind to refuse the mark and be martyred.

(you heard it here first....be wary)

pre-trib heresy = "Mat 25.. Half the virgins (blood bought saints) will be left behind to refuse the mark and be martyred."

 

[rebuilder 454]

The FLOOD is God's WRATH

The Great Tribulation was on earth BEFORE Noah entered the ARK

Noah was in the ARK for 7 days before God poured out His Wrath

7 is God's Signature of SALVATION which is CHRIST = "on the 7th Day God Rested"

We see the spirits of the Saints in Heaven - there are no resurrected Saints in Revelation = 1 Thess ch3 & ch4

Oh, thanks for that 7 days thingy.
Ark is a type of heaven
so, you placed Noah in "heaven" pretrib.
Thanks!

 

[rebuilder 454]

pre-trib heresy = "Mat 25.. Half the virgins (blood bought saints) will be left behind to refuse the mark and be martyred."

If virgins, (undefiled/pure) with oil lamps, oil, light, flames, and in the company of real saints, equals sinners, then you are in fact changing God's word.
You would then also have sinners waiting for Jesus.
Your mind can not process that the 5 foolish virgins are saints.
The bible VIVIDLY DEPICTS THEM as saints.
Your remedy has been to alter scripture over and over.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The FLOOD is God's WRATH

The Great Tribulation was on earth BEFORE Noah entered the ARK

Noah was in the ARK for 7 days before God poured out His Wrath

7 is God's Signature of SALVATION which is CHRIST = "on the 7th Day God Rested"

We see the spirits of the Saints in Heaven - there are no resurrected Saints in Revelation = 1 Thess ch3 & ch4

This is what happens when you make the first part of the trib a doctrinal pivot.
That is all you are doing.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Bro, I see the NT Church of faithful obedient saints in the 144,000 of Revelation 14. Unlike Revelation 7, there is no mention of tribes, and they follow the Lamb, clear allusions to the NT Church. They also sing a new song, which is true only of the New Testament Church.

Thus the faithful obedient saints of the NT Church in Revelation 14, combined with the faithful obedient saints of the OT in Revelation 7, comprise the entirety of God's Chosen People through the ages.

They are firstfruit Jews.
That means main harvest Jews follow.
The trib is "jacobs trouble/Israels trouble"
If you leave out romans 11, the entire Jewish harvest is confused.
You are looking at rom 11 harvest of Jews.
(that is WHY they are EXPLICITLY called and depicted as ETHNIC Jews)
144k are not in ANY way the church. They ARE messianic ethnic Jews.

 

[David in NJ]

Oh, thanks for that 7 days thingy.
Ark is a type of heaven
so, you placed Noah in "heaven" pretrib.
Thanks!

ARK is symbolic of JESUS = all who are in HIM are SAVED from God's Wrath/Flood

 

[David in NJ]

If virgins, (undefiled/pure) with oil lamps, oil, light, flames, and in the company of real saints, equals sinners, then you are in fact changing God's word.
You would then also have sinners waiting for Jesus.
Your mind can not process that the 5 foolish virgins are saints.
The bible VIVIDLY DEPICTS THEM as saints.
Your remedy has been to alter scripture over and over.

Why do you oppose the LORD Jesus Christ?

JESUS said to the 5 foolish: "“Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’
But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

The five foolish were not saved, but they were religious.

2 Timothy 2:19
"Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,”
and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

 

[covenantee]

They are firstfruit Jews.
That means main harvest Jews follow.
The trib is "jacobs trouble/Israels trouble"
If you leave out romans 11, the entire Jewish harvest is confused.
You are looking at rom 11 harvest of Jews.
(that is WHY they are EXPLICITLY called and depicted as ETHNIC Jews)
144k are not in ANY way the church. They ARE messianic ethnic Jews.

You're welcome to your Jews.

I'll stick with John.