Why are you pushing metaphors on the Bible.
Metaphors are white lies.
Signs are Biblical terms, not metaphors.
Pre-Trib Rapture Danger To Your Soul
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Metaphors are white lies.
Signs are Biblical terms, not metaphors.
Now, Jesus was lying about actual birds here?...
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Jesus' answer to His disciple's question of "Where, Lord", which they asked Him about those who were TAKEN....
Luke 17:35-37
35 There will be two women grinding together. One will be taken and the other left.”
37 And they said to Him, “Where, Lord?” He said to them, “Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.”
ESV
Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV
So how much common sense does it require to understand that those of Christ's Church ARE NOT a dead "corpse", nor a dead "carcase"??
And thus by that METAPHOR, Jesus is pointing to those TAKEN being like a dead carcase, but in the SPIRITUAL SENSE involving false worship.
So that AIN'T about Christ's servants as the dead corpse. That is about the DECEIVED and the WICKED. Those are the ones TAKEN in Jesus' METAPHOR there in Luke 17.
So, no birds after all?
Are you saying that Jesus was not telling the truth about the birds?
35 There will be two women grinding together. One will be taken and the other left.”
37 And they said to Him, “Where, Lord?” He said to them, “Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.”
ESV
Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV
No eagles?
No actual carcase?
Taken alive into eternity never to physically die?
That get's rid of Jesus' bird and carcase idea, huh?
37 And they said to Him, “Where, Lord?” He said to them, “Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.”
ESV
Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV
No eagles?
No actual carcase?
Taken alive into eternity never to physically die?
That get's rid of Jesus' bird and carcase idea, huh?
That event for the last day of this world per Rev.19, IS... what that dead carcase event of Luke 17:37 is about. If you had read your Old Testament, you'd know that the idea of FOWLS are used to SYMBOLIZE God's Judgment on the last day of this present world. And the idea of FOWLS is also used as a symbol for Satan and his host.
Not only that, but per Old Testament Scripture, God uses the idea of an 'eagle' for Himself, but Satan's host often also try to use the 'eagle' symbol for themselves. God even applies that idea of false ones (like the old nation of Edom) trying to exalt theirselves upon high like an eagle.
So the reason why Lord Jesus gave that "eagles" METAPHOR in Luke 17:37, for the vultures that will eat on the symbolic dead carcase of the wicked and deceived, has to do with the coming "strong delusion" for the tribulation towards the end of this world. The dragon and his host are coming, and they will exalt themselves like those "eagles", and it looks like many here are not prepared to make a stand for Jesus against that coming event by Satan and his host for the coming tribulation.
You're not going to understand the Rapture while you continue to define it as specific to a certain group and not others. God can save before, during and after the tribulation, so there is no reason to worry. Then there is the fact that the Rapture remains mysterious, the world has no idea what is going on - that makes you safe. And again, the apostacy of the Church does not happen in a moment so there is reason to be confident. Lastly, the Rapture can be revived - as Jesus said "he who endures to the end will be saved", the same is true of a Rapture that reaches the end, it can be saved: so what we miss at first, may be discovered later (that's the whole point of Heaven remaining open!)
The Holy Spirit should be talking to you, throughout all this - it is a relationship with Him, that God welcomes in Heaven (through Jesus!).
The Holy Spirit should be talking to you, throughout all this - it is a relationship with Him, that God welcomes in Heaven (through Jesus!).
Your only trying... to evade what Lord Jesus said, which suggests to me that YOU DON'T REALLY CARE WHAT JESUS SAID THERE IN LUKE 17:37.
That tells me you are not serious about what God's Word as written says, but instead that you only dwell in a fleshy carnal mind. So welcome to my Ignore list.
I see.
You think Jesus was using a concordance.
Too bad you were not there to expound to his disciples for him the elaborate explanation, huh?
I care. Just asking questions you cannot answer, like how the birds and carcase verbage is not actually gathered around without a body.
It is better figuring how to answer this stuff out online before you get slammed in person at a podium.
This is undeniable...
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
THE CATCHING AWAY OF THE SAINTS
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
THE THIEF
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh....
DRUNKEN SERVANT
...49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;..
NOW CHECK THIS OUT
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord(QUOTING JESUS' WORDS), that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
THE CATCHING AWAY OF THE SAINTS
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
THE THIEF
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
THE DRUNKEN SERVANT
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
...both passages in the exact same order.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
THE CATCHING AWAY OF THE SAINTS
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
THE THIEF
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh....
DRUNKEN SERVANT
...49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;..
NOW CHECK THIS OUT
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord(QUOTING JESUS' WORDS), that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
THE CATCHING AWAY OF THE SAINTS
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
THE THIEF
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
THE DRUNKEN SERVANT
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
...both passages in the exact same order.
"Metaphors are white lies"??
You definitely need to go back to school.
Metaphors happen in ALL known languages of the world! And Hebrew has many of them!
Also God in His Word very often... uses metaphor in His Word. So saying metaphors are "white lies" is to actually accuse God of telling lies! That's how Biblically illiterate some here are.
The reason our Heavenly Father and His Son use language metaphor, allegory, parable, proverb, etc., is to make understanding in His Word EASIER. It's because those things are part of all languages, and we all use them, even YOU. I guarantee it.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
1 thes 4 and mat 24-37 t0 42 ,as well as luke 17 and mat 25 are the rapture. Every bit pretrib.
Interesting you know not those verses ,even though they all are rapture verses.
But the one you think is the rapture has angels gathering, not Jesus, and they are not gathered from earth,but FROM HEAVEN, EXACTLY LIKE THE PRETRIB DOCTRINE BELIEVES.
See why I say you have no verses?????
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rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Ok, first off your Noah positioning of the story is bent to your doctrine. You fail to understand what is going on. Jesus frames HIS COMING as preflood. You can,t just recklessly modify the emphasis.
You have zero in that story, that relates to the man made postrib rapture. Absolutely nothing. EVERY component of that example by Jesus is pretrib rapture. It actually ,all by itself, destroys any notion of some post flood rapture. re read it .."BEFORE THE FLOOD. (NOAH TAKEN INTO THE ARK,RISING INTO THE SKY,RETURNING FROM THE SKY, TO THE EARTH POST GREAT TRIBULATION",...now that my friend is beyond any cunning modification.
Your deal does not work.
If you try and test fit it, it fails.
You have a wicked taken correct? That AUTOMATICALL MEANS HALF THE EARTH IS RIGHTEOUS, HALF WICKED.
Bizarre and so false anyone would reject it as a failed pattern.
But it gets worse. You are telling me that there is a born again believer on this earth AFTER THE GT , in bed with a wicked evil Antichrist worshipper with the mark of the beast tatooed all over him.
So you have a huge obstacle. You need to figure out how a 50/50 dynamic fits.
Only pretrib rapture fits. Mat 24 and 25 , 50/50 of the church taken/left
Jesus nailed it down and blocked so many cunny theologians. He IMMEDIATELY WENT TO THE NEXT 50/50 EXAMPLE of mat 25.
Such harmony in the doctrine of the pretrib rapture. No cunny restructuring of Jesus words
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Metaphors are basically a modern English description of this...saying something but meaning something else.
Interpreting a metaphor becomes open ended in interpretation, thus you ran to Job etc. without the approval of the speaker(Jesus), or the hearers(the disciples).
You and others essentially say that Jesus and the disciples taught metaphors as an excuse to redefine what was actually said to your tastebuds.
Fact is, if it is in the Bible, the word "sign" is used.
A sign is not a metaphor.
BTW, preterists are metaphor scripture masters. They think most things you read mean something else.
Can anyone deny this scriptural order of Matt 24/1 Thes 4 comparison as accurate?
Scripture teaches they must be 'rightly divided' along with all the other 'related' Scriptures:
God's ( Mystery ) Great Grace Departure
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)
God's ( prophesied ) Second Coming
Otherwise there is just Mass Confusion, of which 'God is not the author' (1Co 14:33)
Amen.
Related verses must be easy to see, not by using a concordance to match words like a game show.
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