Pre-Trib Rapture Danger To Your Soul

[marks]

Related verses must be easy to see, not by using a concordance to match words like a game show.

The question then is, how well do you know your Bible? All the verses are easy to see when you know them. Until then, there's nothing wrong with using a concordance to locate passages.

Actually I find those kinds of studies extremely meaningful, to use a concordance to look up all places a given word is used, whether the English translation, or the Greek or Hebrew word, to see ever place they are used. And to look at what Greek words are used to translate what Hebrew words in the LXX.

I recommend all of these to those who are so led.

Much love!

 

[Truther]

The question then is, how well do you know your Bible? All the verses are easy to see when you know them. Until then, there's nothing wrong with using a concordance to locate passages.

Actually I find those kinds of studies extremely meaningful, to use a concordance to look up all places a given word is used, whether the English translation, or the Greek or Hebrew word, to see ever place they are used. And to look at what Greek words are used to translate what Hebrew words in the LXX.

I recommend all of these to those who are so led.

Much love!

Stay away from the concordance and take the verses at face value.

That is the best way to avoid calling Jesus' holy word(which we don't agree with or understand) a bunch of metaphors.

 

[marks]

Stay away from the concordance and take the verses at face value.

That is the best way to avoid calling Jesus' holy word(which we don't agree with or understand) a bunch of metaphors.

I don't understand what you are saying.

You know that concordances are only lists of places that words are used, right? As far as taking verses at face value, absolutely! God bless you!!! I can never get over those who deny huge amounts of the Bible in calling it metaphor, or something similar!

I believe Scripture is the best interpreter of Scripture, and for that, I find concordances to be handy. Particularly the one in ESword.net, which uses Strongs numbers.

Much love!

 

[Truther]

I don't understand what you are saying.

You know that concordances are only lists of places that words are used, right? As far as taking verses at face value, absolutely! God bless you!!! I can never get over those who deny huge amounts of the Bible in calling it metaphor, or something similar!

I believe Scripture is the best interpreter of Scripture, and for that, I find concordances to be handy. Particularly the one in ESword.net, which uses Strongs numbers.

Much love!

Concordances are for only jogging one's memory of what and where a particular verse is.

It is not for shape shifting the word of God as the metaphorists do.

It's been a while, hope you have been good my friend.

 

[marks]

Concordances are for only jogging one's memory of what and where a particular verse is.

It is not for shape shifting the word of God as the metaphorists do.

It's been a while, hope you have been good my friend.

But we also use them to learn where other verses are.

Don't get me wrong, I fully share your concern! Some use them to find verses that say certain things so they can construct their ideas. Nope, only seeking to know what He said, expecting that He means what He says.

Much love!

 

[Truther]

But we also use them to learn where other verses are.

Don't get me wrong, I fully share your concern! Some use them to find verses that say certain things so they can construct their ideas. Nope, only seeking to know what He said, expecting that He means what He says.

Much love!

Yes, misrepresenting the words of Jesus Christ in the gospels and Revelation is not smart.

The media may pull that stuff off with politics but Christians cannot with pull it off with God;).

We gotta repeat, not redefine.

 

[quietthinker]

Pre-Trib Rupture Danger To Your Soul​

Do we keep stretchy bandages in preparation?

 

[Davy]

1 thes 4 and mat 24-37 t0 42 ,as well as luke 17 and mat 25 are the rapture. Every bit pretrib.
Interesting you know not those verses ,even though they all are rapture verses.
But the one you think is the rapture has angels gathering, not Jesus, and they are not gathered from earth,but FROM HEAVEN, EXACTLY LIKE THE PRETRIB DOCTRINE BELIEVES.
See why I say you have no verses?????

No, they are not all rapture Scripture.

The Matthew 24:31 gathering of the saints event is about the gathering of the 'asleep' saints, the resurrected saints on the last day. Those are not raptured. Instead, Jesus brings those with Him when He comes, like Apostle Paul said in 1 Thess.4.

Mark 13:27 is... about a "caught up" gathering of the saints when Jesus comes, your so-called 'rapture' idea from Latin translations. It's the 1 Thess.4:17 event.

Matthew 25 is not... about a rapture. It is about the SEPARATION between Christ's elect and the wicked when He returns.

So maybe instead of you 'trying' to tell me what the Scriptures actually say, you might try reading them first instead of just believing what your pre-trib preachers tell you to believe...

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

Like Jesus said above, He comes "after that tribulation". And He sends His angels to gather His elect "from ... the earth ... to heaven". That's about the saints still alive... on earth, per 1 Thess.4:17. And it is for AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

 

[rebuilder 454]

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken TO BE EATEN BY BIRDS, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken TO BE EATEN BY BIRDS, and the other left....

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken TO BE EATEN BY BIRDS, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken TO BE EATEN BY BIRDS, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken TO BE EATEN BY BIRDS, and the other left.


LOL

37

does not fit.
Your model has 50% of earths population righteous,and half unsaved.
Your model has a demonic entity with satans mark,in bed with an on fire believer.
Nope. totally unplausable and not even close.
It has to be a subset of earths population.
If I was postribber, I would come up with something better, because it has to be a subset.
It is not talking about earths population.
Lets make up a more plausable farce to fit postribbers man made doctrine.
Hmmmm, lets see....
I got it!!!!! It is the gathering of rev 14 !!!!!
One taken,One left!!!!!

Nope, does not fit either.


But none of the postrb doctrine does either.
Your basic error is your starting place.
Your devine doctrine is so poorly thought out. it is a doctrine of omission.
Look what you just did.
You left out several components in those verses. You purposefully omitted them.
SMH

 

[rebuilder 454]

No, they are not all rapture Scripture.

The Matthew 24:31 gathering of the saints event is about the gathering of the 'asleep' saints, the resurrected saints on the last day. Those are not raptured. Instead, Jesus brings those with Him when He comes, like Apostle Paul said in 1 Thess.4.

Mark 13:27 is... about a "caught up" gathering of the saints when Jesus comes, your so-called 'rapture' idea from Latin translations. It's the 1 Thess.4:17 event.

Matthew 25 is not... about a rapture. It is about the SEPARATION between Christ's elect and the wicked when He returns.

So maybe instead of you 'trying' to tell me what the Scriptures actually say, you might try reading them first instead of just believing what your pre-trib preachers tell you to believe...

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

Like Jesus said above, He comes "after that tribulation". And He sends His angels to gather His elect "from ... the earth ... to heaven". That's about the saints still alive... on earth, per 1 Thess.4:17. And it is for AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

You just proved that;
a) there is a gathering of saints in haven after the trib. (pretrib raoture doctrine)
b) that angels do the gathering, not Jesus after the trib.( so your flagship verse of heavy investment shows us you guys are wrong!)

Thanks for agreeing with us pretribbers and showing us you have no postrib rapture verses.

 

[Truther]

does not fit.
Your model has 50% of earths population righteous,and half unsaved.
Your model has a demonic entity with satans mark,in bed with an on fire believer.
Nope. totally unplausable and not even close.
It has to be a subset of earths population.
If I was postribber, I would come up with something better, because it has to be a subset.
It is not talking about earths population.
Lets make up a more plausable farce to fit postribbers man made doctrine.
Hmmmm, lets see....
I got it!!!!! It is the gathering of rev 14 !!!!!
One taken,One left!!!!!

Nope, does not fit either.


But none of the postrb doctrine does either.
Your basic error is your starting place.
Your devine doctrine is so poorly thought out. it is a doctrine of omission.
Look what you just did.
You left out several components in those verses. You purposefully omitted them.
SMH

No, per Matt 25, half the folks without the full Acts 2:38 experience in Christendom are left behind.

They were all baptized in Jesus name to become virgins, but only half had oil(Holy Ghost).

Half with the Holy Ghost are taken and half left to face the antichrist.

Sinners are not “virgins”.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No, per Matt 25, half the folks without the full Acts 2:38 experience in Christendom are left behind.

They were all baptized in Jesus name to become virgins, but only half had oil(Holy Ghost).

Half with the Holy Ghost are taken and half left to face the antichrist.

Sinners are not “virgins”.

Bingo
...and are taken directly to the wedding chamber, and the door is shut (heaven,pretrib)

 

[The Light]

Like Jesus said above, He comes "after that tribulation". And He sends His angels to gather His elect "from ... the earth ... to heaven". That's about the saints still alive... on earth, per 1 Thess.4:17. And it is for AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

Exactly. Jesus returns for the gathering from heaven and earth IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION and BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD

This is the second harvest. The pretribulation rapture has already occured before this harvest, obviously in an hour that you think not.

 

[Davy]

You just proved that;
a) there is a gathering of saints in haven after the trib. (pretrib raoture doctrine)
b) that angels do the gathering, not Jesus after the trib.( so your flagship verse of heavy investment shows us you guys are wrong!)

Thanks for agreeing with us pretribbers and showing us you have no postrib rapture verses.

No, what I quoted... proved... the following, which I have said all along on this Forum...

1. when Jesus comes, He brings the RESURRECTED saints with Him that Apostle Paul said were "asleep", their already having died in Christ. That ain't... about a rapture to Heaven. It is about the resurrection on the last day of this world, as written.

2. then on that same day... with the saints still alive on earth, Jesus gathers them to Himself along with those 'asleep' saints, and that is the so-called idea called a 'rapture', even though that word rapture is nowhere written in God's Word. As I have proclaimed, the word written in God's Word for being gathered from the earth is Greek harpazo, and translated to "caught up" in the KJV Bible.

3. because Jesus Himself SENDS His angels WHILE He is COMING TO EARTH on that day, no matter whether one says Jesus gathers His Church.

4. per the Zechariah 14 Scripture, which the false Pre-trib Rapture theory school loves to leave out, Lord Jesus on the day He gathers His Church, WITH ALL HIS SAINTS comes to earth, not back up in Heaven.

The Zechariah 14 Scripture is emphatic that Jesus' feet will touch down upon the MOUNT OF OLIVES WHERE ASCENDED TO HEAVEN FROM, and a great valley will be formed there, ON EARTH. And as written there, He brings ALL His faithful saints there with Him!

So instead of you making up more fibs to go along with the Pre-trib Rapture theory LIE from men's doctrines, you might start reading God's written Word for yourself instead.

 

[Davy]

Here is a Mystery revealed by Lord Jesus, Apostles Paul and Peter, and the Old Testament prophet Zechariah, about the DAY of Lord Jesus' ONLY coming on the LAST DAY of this present world.

The "day of the Lord" phrase which Apostle Paul used is about the 'day' of Christ's coming to gather His Church, and then immediately goes to the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, per Zechariah 14.

1 Thess 5:1-9
5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

In the previous 1 Thessalonians 4 chapter, Apostle Paul gave events of Jesus' coming to gather His Church on the last day of this world. The 1 Thess.4:16 verse emphatically reveals that to be the last day, because Paul shows the asleep saints being resurrected on that day of Christ's coming. Paul calls that day the "day of the Lord" here in 1 Thess.5.

Not only does Paul make it plain that "day of the Lord" is the last day of this world when Jesus comes to gather His Church, Paul also reveals the metaphor "as a thief" that Lord Jesus Himself used for that day of His future coming (see Matthew 24:42-47).


3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Paul then recounts the Old Testament prophecy about a destruction upon the earth by God on that coming "day of the Lord", the last day of this present world. That is how those Thessalonians already knew about the "times and the seasons" regarding the end of this world, for most of what is written in The New Testament about the end of this world was covered first in the Old Testament prophets, and the Old Testament Scriptures is all they had for Bible study in Paul's day.


4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Christ's Church is not... to be spiritually asleep and in darkness about those "times and the seasons" for the end of this world. We are to understand them. This is why Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave us the SIGNS of the end of this world leading up to Lord Jesus' coming on the last day, as a thief in the night, on the "day of the Lord".

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

The deceived, are those whom Paul mentioned above that will be saying, "Peace and safety" at the very end of this world. Per the Daniel 7 & 8 prophecies, the coming time of great tribulation is to be a time of world peace, with the coming pseudo-Christ working great signs, wonders, and miracles, solving all... the world's problems. That is why Paul here says the deceived will be proclaiming that "Peace and safety" at the end, when God's "sudden destruction" on the "day of the Lord" comes upon them.


8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
KJV

Since Paul linked that "sudden destruction" upon the wicked and deceive above, on the last day of this world, then WHAT WRATH is Paul pointing to there? It is GOD'S WRATH on the LAST DAY, a "sudden destruction" upon the wicked and deceived. And to them, it will come "as a thief in the night". But for those who remain faithful waiting on Lord Jesus to come, that day will NOT take us by surprise.


In 2 Peter 3:10, Apostle Peter revealed on that same day of Christ's coming, "as a thief in the night", that "day of the Lord" will accompany God's consuming fire burning man's works off the surface of this earth. That is the "sudden destruction" upon the wicked and deceived that Paul was pointing to on the day of Christ's return.

Within the 6th Vial timing of Revelation 16:15, Lord Jesus Himself even warned His Church that He comes "as a thief". The battle of Armageddon He fights against the armies that come against Jerusalem on the last day then happens on the 7th Vial.

 

[The Light]

Can you show me a verse that shows Jesus returning BEFORE tribulation?

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[marks]

Luke 21:34-36 LITV
34) But take heed to yourselves that your hearts not be loaded down with headaches, and drinking, and anxieties of life, and that day come suddenly upon you
35) as a snare, for it will come in on all those sitting on the face of all the earth.
36) Then be watchful at every time, begging that you be counted worthy to escape all these things, the things being about to happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.

Matthew 24:9-13 LITV
9) Then they will deliver you up to affliction, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
10) And then many will be offended, and they will deliver up one another and will hate one another.
11) And many false prophets will be raised and will cause many to err.
12) And because lawlessness shall have been multiplied, the love of the many will grow cold.
13) But the one who endures to the end, that one will be kept safe.

Matthew 24:29-31 LITV
29) And immediately after the affliction of those days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30) And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the land will wail. And they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory.
31) And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens to their ends.

These are not rapture passages.

Much love!

 

[The Light]

I don't see any kind of return or rapture mentioned there.

I know, which of course is the root of the problem. Standing before the Son of Man might be a clue.

To be accounted worthy to escape the things Jesus mentioned previously is to safely escape it.
Strong's/Thayer...

1. to flee out of, flee away
   1. to seek safety in flight
   2. to escape

Exactly. Escape "ALL THESE THINGS" that will come to pass.

"of weight, worth, worthy," is said of persons and their deeds:

"to account worthy, judge worthy"

Jamieson, Fausset & Brown...

the two great duties which in prospect of trial are constantly enjoined. These warnings, suggested by the need of preparedness for the tremendous calamities approaching,...

Exactly. That is why we are to pray that we are worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass

...being able to "STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN" in the glory of His personal appearing.

Mathew Henry...

He counsels them to prepare and get ready for this great day, v. 36. Here see,

• 1. What should be our aim: that we may be accounted worthy to escape all these things; that, when the judgments of God are abroad, we may be preserved from the malignity of them;

Do you know what a qualifier is?

Hebrews 9
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Only a pre-tribber would pull a return of Christ out of Luke 21:36.

I know.

 

[The Light]

4. per the Zechariah 14 Scripture, which the false Pre-trib Rapture theory school loves to leave out, Lord Jesus WITH ALL HIS SAINTS comes to earth, not back up in Heaven.

The great multitude IS IN HEAVEN for the marriage supper.

Revelation 19
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

I think most that believe in a pretrib rapture understand this. And most post tribbers seem clueless to these scriptures

The Zechariah 14 Scripture is emphatic that Jesus' feet will touch down upon the MOUNT OF OLIVES WHERE ASCENDED TO HEAVEN FROM, and a great valley will be formed there, ON EARTH. And as written there, He brings ALL His faithful saints there with Him!

Exactly. After the marriage supper of those that are raptured to heaven that you seem totally unaware of.

So instead of you making up more fibs to go along with the Pre-trib Rapture theory LIE from men's doctrines, you might start reading God's written Word for yourself instead.

You are either unaware that there is a great multitude in heaven before Christ returns to the earth or you ignore these facts.

 

[The Light]

It's an amazing thing. Pre-tribbers can't see the manufacturing process of this pre-trib delusion. It is the most widely held false deceptive doctrine to ever enter Christianity.

I mean it. I will be forever amazed that anyone cannot see the fabricated nonsense of pre-trib. There is no greater perversion of Mathew 24 than the pre-trib interpretation of it. It is an abomination.

I think Matthew 25 says it all. Five are wise and five are foolish and the door is shut.