Tradition Versus Scripture

[BreadOfLife]

Indeed, and the “traditions” promoted by “the church”, which Jesus said would be corrupted, and which the apostles said was an “apostasy” “already at work” in the first century, “nullifies the word of God”......so history attests to the fact that what these original authorities of Christian teaching spoke about, actually took place and that the church system we have now, is a product of that apostasy.

Deny it if you wish.

WHERE does Jesus say that the Traditions of the Church were corrupted?
WHERE did the Apostles claim that they were “Apostasy”.

Chapter and Verse, please . . .

Let’s explore these verses then....
Isaiah 33:11, 14 are completely out of harmony with ancient Jewish belief about death and the condition of the dead. (Eccl 9:5, 10; Psalm 115:17) If the dead are in a state of unconsciousness when thought processes have ceased, then “hell” is nothing more than the grave, which is the English translation of “Sheol” in Hebrew.
As for Mark 9:47-48 and Matthew 25:31-34.....seriously, you don’t know the difference between “hades” and “Gehenna”?
“Gehenna” is a figurative place because Jesus never taught that the soul is immortal and can survive the death of the body. The soul dies (Ezek 18:4)
The fires of Gehenna are representative of what Jews were taught from their scripture.....not immortality of the soul but resurrection of the dead at a future time. Gehenna was Jerusalem’s rubbish dump where the bodies of those who were not considered worthy of a decent burial were cast for disposal, in a place where fire was kept burning day and night to consume the refuse....what the fires missed the maggots finished off......that is your “hellfire”....not a literal place at all. It meant that these would never be resurrected.....too wicked to see life again.

What kind of loving God would burn people alive forever.....?! The very thought is wicked!

Christendom is a mirror image of apostate Israel.
God said through Jeremiah....
“For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it.

31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart. (Jeremiah 7:30-31)
Why would God burn his own children in a fire when he said that thought this had never come into his heart? Your God is certainly not my God.

Boy – talk about apostate doctrines . . .

As I’ve shown you – Scripture is crystal-clear that just as there is eternal life for the saved (Matt. 25:46, John 3:16, John 5:24, Rom 6:23, 1 John 5:13, Gal. 6:8) – there is eternal torment and separation from God for the damned (Isa. 33:11, 14, Mark 9:47–48, Matt. 25:31-34, 41, 46, Luke 3:16-17, 2 Thess. 1:6-9).

Matt 5:29-30 (which I think you meant rather than vs 25-26) taken from the Jewish perspective, being “pitched into Gehenna” (not hell) was the figurative way of saying that there would be no future for those wicked individuals. They were human garbage in God’s eyes as are all who mislead those who are following the wrong leadership. Jesus said that the Pharisees were not going into the Kingdom and that they prevented other from entering too. (Matt 23: 15, 25, 33)

1 Cor 3:12-15.....You think every mention of fire is “hell”? Fire is also used to refine and to test....
The fires of Gehenna are everlasting because the death experienced in that place never ends.
Matt 18:32-35.....where is “hell” in those verses? The master of the slave would hand that unforgiving slave over to the jailers (who were called “tormentors” because of how they mistreated their inmates.)
Not sure what Luke 12: 58-59 has to do with purgatory. This is a Catholic invention, like hellfire...certainly not biblical.

Ummmm, first of all - I never said that 1 Cor 3:12-15 was about Hell.
I stated very CLEARLY that this is a reference to Final Purification (Purgatory).

FAR from being a “Catholic invention” – praying for the dead was a Jewish practice (2 Macc. 12:42-46).
It is a Jewish custom to pray for eleven moths for the soul of a deceased loved one in a prayer called the Mourner’s Qaddish.

As for Hell – YOUR rejection of this Biblical reality does not “nullify” it.

Well, that’s the excuse anyway, but it certainly does not explain why the person along with their copy of the scriptures was burned alive at the stake.....where did Jesus ever authorise humans to do such a thing?

Where will I find a “pope” in original Christianity? Where will I find a “Grand Inquisitor? Where are those in authority in the original church doing anything but excommunicating a person for what was deemed heresy?
Where is the justification for the heinous instruments of torture?

Ther myth that the Church went around burning people at the stake for “owning a Bible” is an anti-Catholic fairy tale.

As I educated you before – Bibles were very expensive to some by before the Printing Press was invented in the 15th century because they were HAND-COPIED. I also informed you that MOST of the population was functionally illiterate, so only educated and the rich had use for one. Many spurious and erroneous copies were floating around as a result, causing many heretical beliefs to flourish.
Souls were being lost as a result.

Amen......he will NEVER use wicked sources to reveal his sacred word.....
When the judgment comes and Jesus says to the fake Christians, “I NEVER knew you, depart from me you workers of lawlessness”....he will mean it. He has never set foot in the counterfeit “Christianity” created by the devil all those centuries ago. The disunited mess that is Christendom was never genuine Christianity from its beginnings, and its evolution into what we see now is proof that Christ was never present.....the holy spirit unites....it does not divide Christians.

If we can’t tell the difference, then John 6:44, 65 are in play. We have not been ‘invited’.

Thank you for this non sequitur, which has NOTHING to do with the fact that God gave His Church the Authority to declare the Canon of Scripture.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yet your church took that a step further BoL, in many instances by starting traditions a long time after the scriptures were written, and then in hindsight claiming them to be sacred, on account of the church having authority to do so. Even traditions that nullify the very word of God.
Then your church had to establish a protocol whereby they needed to justify the contradictions those traditions created. So they invented a magisterium and a system that demanded God could not nor would ever lower and humble Himself to speak to individual children but only through a select group of exalted senior clerics, who would then act as mediators teach, and interpret scripture on behalf of the common man. In other words, the average Catholic's final authority on what constitutes truth is not the word of God, not even the quoted words of Jesus plainly stated, but the opinion of the priest, be he a practitioner of witchcraft, the father of a dozen illegitimate children, or the murderer of Christians. Those interpretations therefore were offered in defense of error and false doctrine, the word of God made out to be lies, and God an inconsistent confused deity who doesn't know what He's doing.
So your church honors a very different God to that which is portrayed in scripture, the Jesus who never changes and the God who declares
KJV Psalms 119:89
89 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

KJV Psalms 119:130
130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

KJV Mark 7:7-9
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the (4th) commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do, (including a counterfeit day of rest)
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Once AGAIN – Jesus didn’t have a problem with tradition.
He had a problem with the traditions of the Pharisees that nullified the Word of God.

Having a hierarchy of Priests the Church that acts as mediators not only does NOT nullify the Word of God – it certifies it.

Paul wrote that he and the other leaders were ambassadors for Christ – that God was working through them FOR us:

2 Cor. 5:18-20:
“And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given US the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to US the message of reconciliation.
So WE are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through US. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”

1 Thess. 5:12
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are OVER YOU in the Lord and who admonish you,

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the elders that RULE WELL be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

1 Cor. 12:28
Some people God has designated in the church to be, FIRST, apostles; SECOND, prophets; THIRD, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues.

 

[Brakelite]

Once AGAIN – Jesus didn’t have a problem with tradition.
He had a problem with the traditions of the Pharisees that nullified the Word of God.

Having a hierarchy of Priests the Church that acts as mediators not only does NOT nullify the Word of God – it certifies it.

Paul wrote that he and the other leaders were ambassadors for Christ – that God was working through them FOR us:

2 Cor. 5:18-20:
“And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given US the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to US the message of reconciliation.
So WE are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through US. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”

1 Thess. 5:12
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are OVER YOU in the Lord and who admonish you,

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the elders that RULE WELL be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

1 Cor. 12:28
Some people God has designated in the church to be, FIRST, apostles; SECOND, prophets; THIRD, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues.

And taking that to the Catholic extreme resulted in false doctrines based on invented traditions that contradicted scripture. And in order to establish such false doctrines in the church... the word of God as taught in scripture being insufficient... The church resorted to force, even war, and the generals who led those troops, and the priests that encouraged and advised them, that wasted entire Christian communities across vast swathes of countryside across Europe, were lauded by the popes and given titles such as 'doctors of divinity', and 'eternal sons of the church'. Genocide justified by tradition, and you claim Jesus was okay with that? That's blasphemy.

 

[Brakelite]

He had a problem with the traditions of the Pharisees that nullified the Word of God.

But you don't think He has a problem with Catholic traditions that nullify the word of God?

 

[Aunty Jane]

WHERE does Jesus say that the Traditions of the Church were corrupted?

I didn't say that the traditions of "the church" (original Christianity) were corrupted, but those who carried on from the original apostles, later introduced traditions that did not originate from scripture, but from corrupted men who came in as "wolves in sheep's covering". (Matt 7:15-20; Acts 20:29)

In Matt 13:36-43, Jesus spoke of the "wheat and the weeds" who were to be identified by their conduct and teachings. Bad fruitage came from rotten trees. At the time of the harvest, the "weeds" are gathered first and disposed of, leaving the "wheat" to be gathered into the Master's storehouse.

Jesus always used contrasting groups in his illustrations...,"wheat and weeds"..."sheep and goats"....."the road to life and the road to destruction". We are close to the harvest time and Jesus knows who the weeds are, and who the wheat are. Like the sheep and the goats, he will separate them for "life or death"......not "heaven or hell" with purgatory in between.....there is no such place.

WHERE did the Apostles claim that they were “Apostasy”.

What a silly question!.....as if the apostles would claim that they were apostates and what they taught was apostasy, that would make the Bible a book of lies. It was the Jews who accused Paul of apostasy by teaching that the law was no longer binding because their Messiah had fulfilled it.
It was the supposed "apostolic succession" in later times that was the problem....those appointed by the Catholic church in apostasy created these fake apostles, supposedly creating an unbroken line from Peter.....but Peter was not the "rock" on which Christ built his church.....it was Jesus himself who was the rock.

What was the belief of Augustine (who was viewed as a saint by the Catholic Church)?

“In this same period of my priesthood, I also wrote a book against a letter of Donatus . . . In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: ‘On him as on a rock the Church was built.’ . . . But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: ‘Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,’ that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: ‘Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,’ and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received ‘the keys of the kingdom of heaven.’ For, ‘Thou art Peter’ and not ‘Thou art the rock’ was said to him. But ‘the rock was Christ,’ in confessing whom as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter.”
(Quoted from The Fathers of the Church—Saint Augustine, the Retractations (Washington, D.C.; 1968)

Boy – talk about apostate doctrines . . .

I don't think you would know an apostate doctrine if it jumped up and bit you.
The Roman Catholic church is IMO, the most corrupt form of "counterfeit" Christianity in existence. She is the mother of many daughters who all took their mother's dirty laundry with them when they left home. The core doctrines of Christendom all come from Roman Catholicism...NOT from the scriptures.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Continued...

As I’ve shown you – Scripture is crystal-clear that just as there is eternal life for the saved (Matt. 25:46, John 3:16, John 5:24, Rom 6:23, 1 John 5:13, Gal. 6:8) – there is eternal torment and separation from God for the damned (Isa. 33:11, 14, Mark 9:47–48, Matt. 25:31-34, 41, 46, Luke 3:16-17, 2 Thess. 1:6-9).

There is no such thing as "eternal life" for anyone but the Creator himself, (as "eternal" means "no beginning and no end). Every living thing that God made had a beginning, including his "firstborn son", (Rev 3:14) and those to whom to he granted "everlasting life" (life without end) have conditions placed on their mortality. All are subject to death, both humans and angels.
The ones granted immortality are the exception....and that status has to be granted only by the Father upon their resurrection to heaven.

Ummmm, first of all - I never said that 1 Cor 3:12-15 was about Hell.
I stated very CLEARLY that this is a reference to Final Purification (Purgatory).

FAR from being a “Catholic invention” – praying for the dead was a Jewish practice (2 Macc. 12:42-46).
It is a Jewish custom to pray for eleven moths for the soul of a deceased loved one in a prayer called the Mourner’s Qaddish.

The Jews in later centuries (BC) had received no correction from Jehovah for about 300 years before Christ presented himself as Messiah. Why else could Jesus be so scathing in his verbal attacks on the Jewish leaders?
Why else could he say that their 'traditions invalidated their worship'?
By the time Jesus walked the earth the Jewish religion had completely lost its way. Maccabees has no significance apart from some historical information, because the Jews never accepted Jesus as Messiah and therefore had no further enlightenment from him. Proof of this is seen where Jesus was not sent to the Jewish leaders but to "the lost sheep" who were neglected by their appointed shepherds. (Matt 15:24)

As for Hell – YOUR rejection of this Biblical reality does not “nullify” it.

Nonsense.....there is no immortal soul, and therefore no consciousness after death to torment. (Eccl 9:5, 10)
Find me the words "immortal soul" in any passage of scripture.
Souls are mortal and therefore subject to death. (Ezekiel 18:4)

Ther myth that the Church went around burning people at the stake for “owning a Bible” is an anti-Catholic fairy tale.

History attests to this fairy tale...unless you want to call the actions of the Grand Inquisitor a nightmare...? The Spanish Inquisition will go down in infamy as the work of the devil.

As I educated you before – Bibles were very expensive to some by before the Printing Press was invented in the 15th century because they were HAND-COPIED. I also informed you that MOST of the population was functionally illiterate, so only educated and the rich had use for one. Many spurious and erroneous copies were floating around as a result, causing many heretical beliefs to flourish.

LOL....who educated you?
Spurious beliefs and practices were introduced by the apostate church in the early centuries, and erroneous teachings abounded as they added to what God's word taught, gradually introducing foreign concepts from the world that Jesus and the apostles never taught. .

Souls were being lost as a result.

You bet souls were lost....people died because the church claimed that it had God's authority......the Pharisees did too. Remember who orchestrated the death of Jesus?......the majority of the Jewish people believed what these so called 'men of God' had said about him and at the time of his arrest before Pilate, were keen to see him put to death. (Matthew 27:25)

Thank you for this non sequitur, which has NOTHING to do with the fact that God gave His Church the Authority to declare the Canon of Scripture.

Where is it written that God gave his church the authority to "declare the canon of scripture"?
I'd like to see that...
When giving his disciples their final instructions, Jesus said that "ALL Authority" had been given to him and he instructed them to go out and preach about God's Kingdom in all the world. If I was to ask the average Catholic person what the Kingdom of God is, how would they answer?

 

[BreadOfLife]

And taking that to the Catholic extreme resulted in false doctrines based on invented traditions that contradicted scripture. And in order to establish such false doctrines in the church... the word of God as taught in scripture being insufficient... The church resorted to force, even war, and the generals who led those troops, and the priests that encouraged and advised them, that wasted entire Christian communities across vast swathes of countryside across Europe, were lauded by the popes and given titles such as 'doctors of divinity', and 'eternal sons of the church'. Genocide justified by tradition, and you claim Jesus was okay with that? That's blasphemy.

Ummmmm, when did I ever say that Jesus was “okay” with the sins of Church leaders of the past? And, by the way – those SAME sins were shared by Protestant leaders as well, who “wasted” Catholic communities in the name of their traditions.

And, for the record, the Catholic Church has never invented a doctrine that “contradicted” Scripture.

 

[BreadOfLife]

But you don't think He has a problem with Catholic traditions that nullify the word of God?

Please name a SINGLE tradition or Tradition that “nullifies” the Word of God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I didn't say that the traditions of "the church" (original Christianity) were corrupted, but those who carried on from the original apostles, later introduced traditions that did not originate from scripture, but from corrupted men who came in as "wolves in sheep's covering". (Matt 7:15-20; Acts 20:29)

In Matt 13:36-43, Jesus spoke of the "wheat and the weeds" who were to be identified by their conduct and teachings. Bad fruitage came from rotten trees. At the time of the harvest, the "weeds" are gathered first and disposed of, leaving the "wheat" to be gathered into the Master's storehouse.

Jesus always used contrasting groups in his illustrations...,"wheat and weeds"..."sheep and goats"....."the road to life and the road to destruction". We are close to the harvest time and Jesus knows who the weeds are, and who the wheat are. Like the sheep and the goats, he will separate them for "life or death"......not "heaven or hell" with purgatory in between.....there is no such place.

And I posit that this rotten fruit – these wolves in sheep’s clothing started with groups like the Gnostic heretics Paul wrote about in 1 Tim. 4:3-5 and the leaders of the Protestant Revolt in the 16th century.

And, yes, Jesus WILL separate the saved from the damned:
Matt. 28:46
“Then they will go away to ETERNAL PUNISHMENT, but the righteous to ETERNAL LIFE.”

What a silly question!.....as if the apostles would claim that they were apostates and what they taught was apostasy, that would make the Bible a book of lies. It was the Jews who accused Paul of apostasy by teaching that the law was no longer binding because their Messiah had fulfilled it.
It was the supposed "apostolic succession" in later times that was the problem....those appointed by the Catholic church in apostasy created these fake apostles, supposedly creating an unbroken line from Peter.....but Peter was not the "rock" on which Christ built his church.....it was Jesus himself who was the rock.

What was the belief of Augustine (who was viewed as a saint by the Catholic Church)?

“In this same period of my priesthood, I also wrote a book against a letter of Donatus . . . In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: ‘On him as on a rock the Church was built.’ . . . But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: ‘Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,’ that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: ‘Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,’ and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received ‘the keys of the kingdom of heaven.’ For, ‘Thou art Peter’ and not ‘Thou art the rock’ was said to him. But ‘the rock was Christ,’ in confessing whom as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter.”
(Quoted from The Fathers of the Church—Saint Augustine, the Retractations (Washington, D.C.; 1968)

Augustine later wrote:
Among these [apostles] Peter alone almost everywhere deserved to represent the whole Church. Because of that representation of the Church, which only he bore, he deserved to hear "I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven" (Sermons 295:2 [A.D. 411]).

Who is ignorant that the first of the apostles is the most blessed Peter? (Commentary on John 56:1 [A.D. 416]).

Anyway - Augustine wasn’t infallible - NOR was he the ONLY canonized saint who wrote about Peter:
Clement of Alexandria
The blessed Peter, the chosen, the preeminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly grasped and understood their meaning. And what does he say? "Behold, we have left all and have followed you" [Matt. 19:2 7, Mark 10:28] (Who is the Rich Man That is Saved? 21:3-5 [A.D. 200]).

Tertullian
The Lord said to Peter, "On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven and whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven" [Matt. 16:18-19]. ... Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church; and whatever you shall have bound or you shall have loosed, not what they shall have bound or they shall have loosed (Modesty 21:9-10 [A.D. 220]).

Letter of Clement to James
Be it known to you, my lord, that Simon [Peter], who, for the sake of the true faith, and the most sure foundation of his doctrine, was set apart to be the foundation of the Church, and for this end was by Jesus himself, with his truthful mouth, named Peter, the first-fruits of our Lord, the first of the apostles; to whom first the Father revealed the Son; whom the Christ, with good reason, blessed; the called, and elect (Letter of Clement to James 2 [A.D, 221]).

Cyprian
The Lord says to Peter: "I say to you," he says, "that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church" . . . On him he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church? (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4 [A.D. 251]).

Ambrose of Milan
[Christ] made answer: "You are Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church . . ." Could he not, then, strengthen the faith of the man to whom, acting on his own authority, he gave the kingdom, whom he called the rock, thereby declaring him to be the foundation of the Church [Matt. 16:18]? (The Faith 4:5 [A.D. 379]).

I don't think you would know an apostate doctrine if it jumped up and bit you.
The Roman Catholic church is IMO, the most corrupt form of "counterfeit" Christianity in existence. She is the mother of many daughters who all took their mother's dirty laundry with them when they left home. The core doctrines of Christendom all come from Roman Catholicism...NOT from the scriptures.

Wanna bet?

Here’s one: Sola Scriptura.
There isn’t ANY justification for this teaching in the Bible.

This is a 100% man-made invention. I can smell an apostate doctrine a mile away – and YOUR posts wreak of them.

The fact that you reject the Biblical reality of eternal reward and eternal punishment testifies to that stench . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Continued...

There is no such thing as "eternal life" for anyone but the Creator himself, (as "eternal" means "no beginning and no end). Every living thing that God made had a beginning, including his "firstborn son", (Rev 3:14) and those to whom to he granted "everlasting life" (life without end) have conditions placed on their mortality. All are subject to death, both humans and angels.
The ones granted immortality are the exception....and that status has to be granted only by the Father upon their resurrection to heaven.

WRONG.

Whereas, Jesus’s FLESH had a beginning – the Son ALWAYS was.

And yes, when it comes our souls - the term, “Everlasting life” is more accurate than “Eternal” life.
Just as there will be everlasting punishment for the condemned.

The Jews in later centuries (BC) had received no correction from Jehovah for about 300 years before Christ presented himself as Messiah. Why else could Jesus be so scathing in his verbal attacks on the Jewish leaders?
Why else could he say that their 'traditions invalidated their worship'?
By the time Jesus walked the earth the Jewish religion had completely lost its way. Maccabees has no significance apart from some historical information, because the Jews never accepted Jesus as Messiah and therefore had no further enlightenment from him. Proof of this is seen where Jesus was not sent to the Jewish leaders but to "the lost sheep" who were neglected by their appointed shepherds. (Matt 15:24)

HOGWASH.

The Jews got their festival of Chanukkah from Maccabees – So it’s not just “historically” significant.

As a matter of historical fact – the 7 Deuterocanonical Books and portions of Daniel and Esther that Protestants disregard as Scripture were part of the OPEN Jewish Canon that existed until the 2nd century when that Canon was finally closed at the Rabbinical gathering at Jabneh. These Books are references almost 200 times on the pages of the New Testament.

The main advocate for removing the 7 Books was Rabbi Akiba ben Joseph (A.D. 37-137), who was also known for proclaiming that a man named Simon Bar Kokhba was the “real” Messiah during the 2nd Jewish Revolt (circa 132 AD).

So, YOU have chosen to go with a POST-Christ, POST-Temple Canon of Scripture that was declared by a FALSE Prophet (Akiva) who proclaimed a FALSE “Christ” (Kokhba).

Good job . . .

Nonsense.....there is no immortal soul, and therefore no consciousness after death to torment. (Eccl 9:5, 10)
Find me the words "immortal soul" in any passage of scripture.
Souls are mortal and therefore subject to death. (Ezekiel 18:4)

I don’t need to.
Jesus promises everlasting torment for the damned - and everlasting life for the saved (Matt. 25:46).

History attests to this fairy tale...unless you want to call the actions of the Grand Inquisitor a nightmare...? The Spanish Inquisition will go down in infamy as the work of the devil.

Show mw a SINGLE case of someone who was burned at the stake for simply “owning” a Bible.

That’s a fairy tale . .

LOL....who educated you?
Spurious beliefs and practices were introduced by the apostate church in the early centuries, and erroneous teachings abounded as they added to what God's word taught, gradually introducing foreign concepts from the world that Jesus and the apostles never taught. .

I know my history.

The prohibitions against owning or transcribing the Scriptures was instituted at the Council of Toulouse in 1229 for the very reasons that I listed in my last post.

I wasn’t duped by the Watchtower Society like YOU . . .

You bet souls were lost....people died because the church claimed that it had God's authority......the Pharisees did too. Remember who orchestrated the death of Jesus?......the majority of the Jewish people believed what these so called 'men of God' had said about him and at the time of his arrest before Pilate, were keen to see him put to death. (Matthew 27:25)

Where is it written that God gave his church the authority to "declare the canon of scripture"?
I'd like to see that...
When giving his disciples their final instructions, Jesus said that "ALL Authority" had been given to him and he instructed them to go out and preach about God's Kingdom in all the world. If I was to ask the average Catholic person what the Kingdom of God is, how would they answer?

Jesus gave His Church SUPREME earthly Authority . . .

Matt 16:18-19
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 18:15-18
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent ME, so I send YOU.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus WILL separate the saved from the damned:
Matt. 28:46
“Then they will go away to ETERNAL PUNISHMENT, but the righteous to ETERNAL LIFE.”

And the Jewish understanding of these terms is not what Catholicism came to teach hundreds of years after the death of Christ. (Internet yelling is a sign of poor defense and desperation....Jesus never yelled at any of his disciples)

The Bible contrasts everlasting life with everlasting death....both are connected to a resurrection.....that was the Jewish hope.....to be resurrected under the rule of God’s kingdom....or not. It would involved no immortal soul...no instant transportation to either heavenly bliss or eternal roasting in a fire, (no purgatory in between) because immortality of the soul was a later adoption by the apostate Jewish religious system and also by the apostate “Christian” religious system which was also corrupted by the same entity....with the same lie that led the human race into sin in the first place....”you surely will not die”. God did not tell Adam about any ‘heaven or hell’ scenario....he simply told him that death was a ‘return to the dust’. (Gen 3:19)

Augustine later wrote:
Among these [apostles] Peter alone almost everywhere deserved to represent the whole Church. Because of that representation of the Church, which only he bore, he deserved to hear "I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven" (Sermons 295:2 [A.D. 411]).

Who is ignorant that the first of the apostles is the most blessed Peter? (Commentary on John 56:1 [A.D. 416]).

Anyway - Augustine wasn’t infallible - NOR was he the ONLY canonized saint who wrote about Peter:
Clement of Alexandria
The blessed Peter, the chosen, the preeminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly grasped and understood their meaning. And what does he say? "Behold, we have left all and have followed you" [Matt. 19:2 7, Mark 10:28] (Who is the Rich Man That is Saved? 21:3-5 [A.D. 200]).

Tertullian
The Lord said to Peter, "On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven and whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven" [Matt. 16:18-19]. ... Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church; and whatever you shall have bound or you shall have loosed, not what they shall have bound or they shall have loosed (Modesty 21:9-10 [A.D. 220]).

Letter of Clement to James
Be it known to you, my lord, that Simon [Peter], who, for the sake of the true faith, and the most sure foundation of his doctrine, was set apart to be the foundation of the Church, and for this end was by Jesus himself, with his truthful mouth, named Peter, the first-fruits of our Lord, the first of the apostles; to whom first the Father revealed the Son; whom the Christ, with good reason, blessed; the called, and elect (Letter of Clement to James 2 [A.D, 221]).

Cyprian
The Lord says to Peter: "I say to you," he says, "that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church" . . . On him he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church? (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4 [A.D. 251]).

Ambrose of Milan
[Christ] made answer: "You are Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church . . ." Could he not, then, strengthen the faith of the man to whom, acting on his own authority, he gave the kingdom, whom he called the rock, thereby declaring him to be the foundation of the Church [Matt. 16:18]? (The Faith 4:5 [A.D. 379]).

Please check the dates on these quotes......if apostasy was rearing it’s ugly head in the first century before the last of the apostles passed away, then we can see from the history of the Jews, if there was no constant checking of their conduct, corruption always crept in. Correction and punishment followed. The corrupt leaders and kings always led the whole nation into sin. It’s how the devil works...he has no new tricks because humans are basically stupid and can be led astray by the same lies over and over. History repeats because of that.

Here’s one: Sola Scriptura.
There isn’t ANY justification for this teaching in the Bible.

This is a 100% man-made invention. I can smell an apostate doctrine a mile away – and YOUR posts wreak of them.

The fact that you reject the Biblical reality of eternal reward and eternal punishment testifies to that stench . . .

Since Jesus and his apostles constantly quoted from what was the Hebrew Scriptures of their day, (2 Tim 3:16-17) nothing added later could be accepted as canonical. No declaration by any apostate church could alter what they taught. The Apocryphal writings can therefore be rejected as the word of God.

Jesus’s FLESH had a beginning – the Son ALWAYS was.

Read Colossians 1:15, Revelation 3:14. The Son is a created being.....he is not eternal but everlasting since he was “begotten” long before any other creature was brought into existence. He is “before all things” (Col 1:15-1) which is not said of God but of the spirit being who came down from heaven as Jesus the man, later to become Jesus the Christ. He was God’s “only begotten son” because for an unknown period of time he was “with God” “in the beginning”.....since God had no beginning, Jesus is begotten like a Father begets a Son. There was a time when the son did not exist. He is a product of his Father. God has many “sons” but only Jesus is unique as God’s “firstborn”. Adam was a human “son of God” before Jesus was, (Luke 3:38) so Jesus is not the first human "son of God", he was "begotten" by his Father long before his earthly mission.

Just as there will be everlasting punishment for the condemned.

Everlasting death is still an everlasting punishment....having all trace of one’s existence expunged from any memory that they ever existed is enough of a punishment.....who said that the punishment had to involve roasting souls in agony for eternity? Is your god a fiend who enjoys seeing his children suffer in eternal pain? What kind of loving God does that? And what does that accomplish? Absolutely nothing!

All of the punishments under God’s laws were to encourage repentance so that forgiveness could be granted.....if no repentance was forthcoming the person's right to live was cancelled. There was simply 'life or death'.....not 'heaven or hell'.

The Jews got their festival of Chanukkah from Maccabees – So it’s not just “historically” significant.

Before the Greek Septuagint was begun, the Jerusalem canon was established. It contained just the thirty-nine inspired Hebrew-Aramaic books from Genesis to Malachi, and it prohibited the apocryphal books that were added to the Greek Septuagint. Jesus and the eight writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures confirmed this Jerusalem canon of thirty-nine books, for they all quoted from the Jerusalem canon, but never from the apocryphal books added to the Greek Septuagint. When those eight inspired writers in Greek did quote from the Septuagint, they ignored the apocryphal books. That should tell us something.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Continued....

As a matter of historical fact – the 7 Deuterocanonical Books and portions of Daniel and Esther that Protestants disregard as Scripture were part of the OPEN Jewish Canon that existed until the 2nd century when that Canon was finally closed at the Rabbinical gathering at Jabneh. These Books are references almost 200 times on the pages of the New Testament.

Not so, according to my research. The Hebrew canon did not remain “open” except perhaps to the apostate Jews and those who subscribed to the later additions. Jesus knew his scripture and never once referred to any of the apocryphal writings.

The Jews have their Talmud, just as the Catholic church has its Catechism......telling the flock what to believe. I have been amazed that so many Catholic people don't know the difference between a Bible and a Catechism......why is that I wonder?

I don’t need to.
Jesus promises everlasting torment for the damned - and everlasting life for the saved (Matt. 25:46).

“I don’t need to” is not the same as “I cannot”.
Matt 25:46 doesn’t say that......”
“And they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous will enter eternal life.” (NCB)
Eternal punishment is not conscious because there is no teaching of an immortal soul in the Bible. There is nothing to punish except with eternal death....does your god demand more? My God doesn’t.

Jesus gave His Church SUPREME earthly Authority . . .

Matt 16:18-19
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 18:15-18
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent ME, so I send YOU.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

You are yelling again......Please be aware that these instructions were given to Christ’s apostles......who were well aware of Jesus’ warning about the coming apostasy and spoke of it themselves.....there is no way that the “church” which emerged in later times was the one that taught scriptural truth.....just as surely as Judaism was corrupted by wicked men, so too was Christianity going to be led astray in the same way by the same enemy of God. Flawed humanity in the hands of the devil produced rotten fruit, and history is littered with it. Which is why Jesus foretold a “cleansing, refining and whitening” of his people in “the time of the end” (Daniel 12:4, 9-10)......the time just before Christ’s return. Just as the Christians in the first century were separated out from the corrupted Jewish system, so too the genuine Christians have to be separated out of the devil’s counterfeit “Christianity” today. At the time of the harvest, there would be no similarity between the wheat and the weeds. We are at the time of the harvest...and Jesus is about to send the reapers to collect the weeds first.

God has instructed us to “get out of" "Babylon the great” (Rev 18:4-5) so if we do not know how to identify "Babylon the great", so as to obey that directive.....we will go down with her.

 

[Brakelite]

Please name a SINGLE tradition or Tradition that “nullifies” the Word of God.

From your catechism...
The Lord's Day

This is the day which the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.103

The day of the Resurrection: the new creation

2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:

We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.106

Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.

END QUOTE.

... you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.
—The Faith of Our Fathers, by James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, 88th edition, page 89. Originally published in 1876, republished and Copyright 1980 by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., pages 72-73.

 

[Brakelite]

Ummmmm, when did I ever say that Jesus was “okay” with the sins of Church leaders of the past?

You didn't. But you are defending church policy that authorized and encouraged and supported and did actively partake of the genocide and attempted genocide of entire people groups for the sole reason they refused to submit to the papal authority. Jesus would not are with your defending of such institutionalized killing of God's own children.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And the Jewish understanding of these terms is not what Catholicism came to teach hundreds of years after the death of Christ. (Internet yelling is a sign of poor defense and desperation....Jesus never yelled at any of his disciples)

The Bible contrasts everlasting life with everlasting death....both are connected to a resurrection.....that was the Jewish hope.....to be resurrected under the rule of God’s kingdom....or not. It would involved no immortal soul...no instant transportation to either heavenly bliss or eternal roasting in a fire, (no purgatory in between) because immortality of the soul was a later adoption by the apostate Jewish religious system and also by the apostate “Christian” religious system which was also corrupted by the same entity....with the same lie that led the human race into sin in the first place....”you surely will not die”. God did not tell Adam about any ‘heaven or hell’ scenario....he simply told him that death was a ‘return to the dust’. (Gen 3:19)

First of all – nobody is “yelling”. I use exclamation points (!!) when I yell.
That was just a diversion because of your ridiculous claim about the Jewish beliefs.

And cherry-picking the Scriptures to arrive at the fallacy that there is NO everlasting punishment or reward is SQUASHED by the Biblical proof for BOTH.

I can just as easily cherry-pick verses to arrive at the idea that there is NO God . . .

Please check the dates on these quotes......if apostasy was rearing it’s ugly head in the first century before the last of the apostles passed away, then we can see from the history of the Jews, if there was no constant checking of their conduct, corruption always crept in. Correction and punishment followed. The corrupt leaders and kings always led the whole nation into sin. It’s how the devil works...he has no new tricks because humans are basically stupid and can be led astray by the same lies over and over. History repeats because of that.

YOU are the one who quoted Augustine from the FOURTH century in order to “prove” that Peter wasn’t the “Rock” of Matt. 16.

I not only quoted Augustine and his contemporaries to DISAPROVE that – but some of his predecessors as well – so YOU say that they are “apostate”.

What a hypocrite you are..

Since Jesus and his apostles constantly quoted from what was the Hebrew Scriptures of their day, (2 Tim 3:16-17) nothing added later could be accepted as canonical. No declaration by any apostate church could alter what they taught. The Apocryphal writings can therefore be rejected as the word of God.

WRONG.

Not only did they reference the Deuterocanonical Books almost 200 times on the pages of the NT – they ALSO quotes ORAL Tradition:

Heb 11:35 – mentions the martyrdom of the mother and her sons described in 2 Macc. 7:1-42.

Eph. 6:13-17 – In an almost verbatim listing, Paul talks about the armor armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield from Wis. 5:17-20.

Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is ORAL TRADITION. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.

Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the ORAL TRADITION of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the rock following Moses. It is not recorded in the Old Testament. See Exod. 17:1-17 and Num. 20:2-13.

2 Timothy 3:8 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION when speaking of Pharoah’s magicians, Jannes and Jambres. Their names are not recorded in the Old Testament.

Heb. 11:37 - the author of Hebrews relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the martyrs being sawed in two. This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Jude 9 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is not found in the Old Testament.

Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of Enoch's prophecy which is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Read Colossians 1:15, Revelation 3:14. The Son is a created being.....he is not eternal but everlasting since he was “begotten” long before any other creature was brought into existence. He is “before all things” (Col 1:15-1) which is not said of God but of the spirit being who came down from heaven as Jesus the man, later to become Jesus the Christ. He was God’s “only begotten son” because for an unknown period of time he was “with God” “in the beginning”.....since God had no beginning, Jesus is begotten like a Father begets a Son. There was a time when the son did not exist. He is a product of his Father. God has many “sons” but only Jesus is unique as God’s “firstborn”. Adam was a human “son of God” before Jesus was, (Luke 3:38) so Jesus is not the first human "son of God", he was "begotten" by his Father long before his earthly mission.

The Son is ETERNALLY Begotten – NOT created.

John1:1 tells us that not only was He WITH God in the Beginning – but that He WAS God.

In Rev. 1:8 – Almighty GOD says:
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

In Rev. 22:13 – it is the SONN qho says:
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”

Everlasting death is still an everlasting punishment....having all trace of one’s existence expunged from any memory that they ever existed is enough of a punishment.....who said that the punishment had to involve roasting souls in agony for eternity? Is your god a fiend who enjoys seeing his children suffer in eternal pain? What kind of loving God does that? And what does that accomplish? Absolutely nothing!

All of the punishments under God’s laws were to encourage repentance so that forgiveness could be granted.....if no repentance was forthcoming the person's right to live was cancelled. There was simply 'life or death'.....not 'heaven or hell'.

WRONG.

The Bible indicates everlasting TORMENT and SUFFERING (Luke 16:19-31, 2 Thess. 1:9, Rev. 20:10, Jude 1:7, Revelation 14:9-11)

Before the Greek Septuagint was begun, the Jerusalem canon was established. It contained just the thirty-nine inspired Hebrew-Aramaic books from Genesis to Malachi, and it prohibited the apocryphal books that were added to the Greek Septuagint. Jesus and the eight writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures confirmed this Jerusalem canon of thirty-nine books, for they all quoted from the Jerusalem canon, but never from the apocryphal books added to the Greek Septuagint. When those eight inspired writers in Greek did quote from the Septuagint, they ignored the apocryphal books. That should tell us something.

WRONG again.

Not only es the Jewish Canon an OPEN Canon in the first century – it wasn’t closed until the END of the firsat century at the Rabbinical gathering at Jabneh. This was AFTER the destruction of the Temple,

AND, as I explained – the man who led this gathering was Rabbi Akiba ben Joseph (A.D. 37-137), who declared that a man named Simon Bar Kokhba was the “real” Messiah during the 2nd Jewish Revolt (circa 132 AD).

Imagine that – YOU follow an OT Canon that was declared by a FALSE Prophet who proclaimed a FALSE Messiah.

As I have shown – Jesus and the NT writers studied from the Septuagint – which they reference almost 200 times in the NT.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Continued....

Not so, according to my research. The Hebrew canon did not remain “open” except perhaps to the apostate Jews and those who subscribed to the later additions. Jesus knew his scripture and never once referred to any of the apocryphal writings.

The Jews have their Talmud, just as the Catholic church has its Catechism......telling the flock what to believe. I have been amazed that so many Catholic people don't know the difference between a Bible and a Catechism......why is that I wonder?

I don’t know of a SINGLE Catholic who thinks the Bible is the Catechism – or vice versa.

“I don’t need to” is not the same as “I cannot”.
Matt 25:46 doesn’t say that......”
“And they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous will enter eternal life.” (NCB)
Eternal punishment is not conscious because there is no teaching of an immortal soul in the Bible. There is nothing to punish except with eternal death....does your god demand more? My God doesn’t.

No- “I don’t need to”” simply means that I’m NOT going to try to contradict the Bible as YOU have

You are yelling again......Please be aware that these instructions were given to Christ’s apostles......who were well aware of Jesus’ warning about the coming apostasy and spoke of it themselves.....there is no way that the “church” which emerged in later times was the one that taught scriptural truth.....just as surely as Judaism was corrupted by wicked men, so too was Christianity going to be led astray in the same way by the same enemy of God. Flawed humanity in the hands of the devil produced rotten fruit, and history is littered with it. Which is why Jesus foretold a “cleansing, refining and whitening” of his people in “the time of the end” (Daniel 12:4, 9-10)......the time just before Christ’s return. Just as the Christians in the first century were separated out from the corrupted Jewish system, so too the genuine Christians have to be separated out of the devil’s counterfeit “Christianity” today. At the time of the harvest, there would be no similarity between the wheat and the weeds. We are at the time of the harvest...and Jesus is about to send the reapers to collect the weeds first.

God has instructed us to “get out of" "Babylon the great” (Rev 18:4-5) so if we do not know how to identify "Babylon the great", so as to obey that directive.....we will go down with her.

Sooooo – because you are ignorant of what “Babylon” is – you assume it is the Catholic Church??

This is a textbook example of WHY there are literally tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering factions – ALL teaching different doctrines yet AL claiming to have been “led” to this confusion by the Holy Spirit . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

From your catechism...
The Lord's Day

This is the day which the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.103

The day of the Resurrection: the new creation

2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:

We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.106

Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.

END QUOTE.

... you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.
—The Faith of Our Fathers, by James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, 88th edition, page 89. Originally published in 1876, republished and Copyright 1980 by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., pages 72-73.

In the Law, we see a probation against certain foods. However, in the NT, we see that these laws were FULFILLED in Christ (Col. 2:16-17).
Because of this - the dietary restrictions are no more (Acts 10:9-16).

Similarly, the Sabbath was FULFILLED in Christ, as Paul explains in Col. 2:16-17.
End of story.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You didn't. But you are defending church policy that authorized and encouraged and supported and did actively partake of the genocide and attempted genocide of entire people groups for the sole reason they refused to submit to the papal authority. Jesus would not are with your defending of such institutionalized killing of God's own children.

In post #223 - YOU said that I DID say that Jesus was “okay” with the killing that the Church took part in.
I guess that makes YOU a liar . . .

I condemn it as I condemn ANY sin than men take part in.
And I condemn it as vehemently as I condemn the countless murders of Catholics by Protestants.

 

[Brakelite]

In post #223 - YOU said that I DID say that Jesus was “okay” with the killing that the Church took part in.
I guess that makes YOU a liar . . .

I condemn it as I condemn ANY sin than men take part in.
And I condemn it as vehemently as I condemn the countless murders of Catholics by Protestants.

But those killings were the direct result of some of the very traditions you claim Jesus was okay with. And you won't find any example of Protestant war against entire communities such as Clovis embarked upon.
I'm glad you condemn such killings. It's a pity your church didn't. On the contrary, your church struck medals to commemorate it. That isn't the action of one or two individuals. That's church policy. And while today the church may exude a more conciliatory tone towards people of other faiths, and which is to be highly commended, what concerns me is the prophetic word that speaks to a time soon to transpire wherein the entire planet comes under the yolk of tyranny in order to enforce Catholic tradition as a commandment purported to be of God..."and ye shall be hated of all nations for My name's sake".
KJV Revelation 18:3
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

And today, you are still claiming Jesus is okay with traditions that contradict scripture. His scripture. And in order to do so, you have to change the meaning of scripture to harmonize with your tradition.
For example. Colossians 2:16,17 says nothing regarding the weekly Sabbath. And your own church scholars admit as much. That text speaks of Sabbaths that were shadows. The weekly Sabbath was instituted before sin, before there was any need of a plan of redemption for man. The annual Sabbaths were shadows. Feast days. You call them holidays. They were the shadows. They pointed to the Saviour. Jesus fulfilled them during the course of His life on earth, and during His intercession in heaven. The weekly Sabbath did not point forward to something, anything, for sin, and the remedy for it, did not then need acknowledgement.

 

[Brakelite]

Genocide justified by tradition, and you claim Jesus was okay with that?

In post #223 - YOU said that I DID say that Jesus was “okay” with the killing that the Church took part in.
I guess that makes YOU a liar . . .

Almost. Note the question mark.