22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,198
113
73
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
No pope has ever denied Bellarmine's attribution of Jesus' names to the papacy.
Because popes know what "represents" means, explicitly or implied. You're beating a dead horse.
That indeed is blasphemy.
Now, according to Scriptural usage, conclusively established by Dr. Murray, this expression, ‘I am with you,’ means a special divine efficacious aid and protection to the Apostles, ensuring the faithful discharge of their mission. And this divine assurance and pledge of success is not limited to the Apostles themselves; it is equally promised to those who are to continue the Apostles’ work till the end of time. Now, were it possible for the Church to teach false doctrines, how could the God of Truth be said to be with her, aiding her in doing so? How could He lend His efficacious positive assistance to the propagation of falsehood? Since, therefore, He has pledged Himself to be with His Church in her work of teaching, the Church’s teaching must be always true.

This is our doctrine. It is intelligible; it is consistent; it ensures to as the possession of that true faith without which salvation is impossible; it secures us against those wretched systems that make shipwreck of the faith. Isaias saw in the distant future the beauty of the Bride of the Lamb, and St. Paul described her admirable symmetry, when the reality was before him; but instead of the beauty foretold by Isaias; instead of the order and symmetry insisted on by St. Paul, heresy shows us a deformed thing, corrupt and corrupting, and asks us to recognize it as the spotless Spouse of Christ.

Instead of the harmony which Scripture everywhere attributes to the Kingdom of God on earth heresy presents to us a picture of that other kingdom in which no order but everlasting horror dwells; and we are told that our Lord preached up and propped up this other Babel, and called it the Ark of His Covenant with men; that He left His Church a mistress of manifold error, and called her, at the same time, ‘the pillar, and the ground of truth.’ Surely it can be no difficult task to vindicate the God of Truth against such an imputation as this — and this imputation is the sum and substance of Dr. Salmon’s lectures.

Our dogmatic theologians give several arguments, from the written and unwritten Word of God, to prove the Infallibility of the Church; they develop those arguments at considerable length, and answer the objections both to the doctrine and to the proofs; but Dr. Salmon conveniently ignores the arguments, and repeats the objections, with as much apparent confidence as if they had never been answered. When the powers of his young controversialists come to be tested they will discover that the Doctor’s training of them was not the best. And not only does Dr. Salmon not consider our argument for Infallibility, but he actually maintains that we can have no argument at all; and that he has ‘a perfect right to put out of court all Roman Catholic attempts to prove the Infallibility of their Church, as being attempts to build a fabric without a foundation’ (page 79).
read more here
 

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,198
113
73
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Amongst the assailants of the Church, there are very many the vehemence of whose declamation is in precise proportion to their ignorance of the doctrines they condemn. Such persons cure rather objects for pity. They will not, of course, take the Church’s teaching from herself; for then it may not be so easy to refute it. They persistently attribute to her doctrines which she does not hold, and so they readily refute the phantoms of their own creation. They act just like those pagans of whom Tertullian said: ‘They are unwilling to hear, what, if heard, they could not condemn.’

And very often, too, the attack on the Church is made by men of undoubted ability, and of considerable acquirements, from whom, therefore, we should have expected accurate statements of our doctrines and intelligent treatment of the grounds on which these doctrines are held. And yet when we read their controversial works, we seek in vain for any of these qualities. They seem to understand the Church quite as little as the least educated of her assailants. The ability, the calmness, the spirit of dispassionate inquiry, which mark them in other departments of learning, seem to have completely abandoned them when they discuss the claims of the Catholic Church.

 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
6,393
2,726
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Because popes know what "represents" means, explicitly or implied. You're beating a dead horse.
“All names which in the scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.”

Highlight the word "represents" for us.

Change its color as well so we'll be sure not to miss it. :laughing:

Ah yes, "implied". A favorite of cults by which they can claim that anything means whatever they say.

Tell us which word implies "represents".

Hint: No word in Bellarmine's declaration implies "represents" without a mutilation of the English language, again a cultic favorite.

Until Bellarmine's blasphemy is repudiated, his dead horse lives on.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: WPM

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
11,968
3,752
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
They persistently attribute to her doctrines which she does not hold, and so they readily refute the phantoms of their own creation.
Roman Catholicism has many false doctrines

Purgatory, pope infallibility, Mary as Co-redemptor and mediator, indulgences, transubstantiation, just to mention a few
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: covenantee

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,198
113
73
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
“All names which in the scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.”

Highlight the word "represents" for us.

Change its color as well so we'll be sure not to miss it. :laughing:

Ah yes, "implied". A favorite of cults by which they can claim that anything means whatever they say.

Tell us which word implies "represents".

Hint: No word in Bellarmine's declaration implies "represents" without a mutilation of the English language, again a cultic favorite.

Until Bellarmine's blasphemy is repudiated, his dead horse lives on.
"...by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church..." is what you cannot comprehend, you force it to say the pope is over God, which is stupid and absurd. "over the church", not over God. Grow up. Besides, you reject what amounts to your version of the papacy in the first place, a standard straw man fallacy.

A Protestant Asks Scott Hahn to Prove the Papacy... w/ Scott Hahn and Cameron Bertuzzi​


Amongst the assailants of the Church, there are very many the vehemence of whose declamation is in precise proportion to their ignorance of the doctrines they condemn. Such persons cure rather objects for pity. They will not, of course, take the Church’s teaching from herself; for then it may not be so easy to refute it. They persistently attribute to her doctrines which she does not hold, and so they readily refute the phantoms of their own creation. They act just like those pagans of whom Tertullian said: ‘They are unwilling to hear, what, if heard, they could not condemn.’
 
Last edited:

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
21,655
3,591
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Of course he isn't comparing. Never did I say that he is.

Rather, he is ascribing the attributes of Jesus to the pope.

That's absolute blasphemy.

And no pope has ever repudiated it.
WRONG.

Only tjer titled that pertain to His Authoritu over the Church.
He is NOT asbribing attributes like "Creator" or "Savior".

It's your dishonest cherry-picking that got you in this mess in the first place . .
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
21,655
3,591
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Catholics have a lovely way of communicating!

No wonder so many are exiting this misrepresentation of Christ.
Here we go again . . .

I've shoiwn you the current statistics of the decline of Christianity across the boared.
But, in the depths of your ignorance and itter denial - you live in a fantasy world . . .
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
21,655
3,591
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So it's a Catholic sin to read the Word, because faith comes only from hearing the Word. :laughing:

Thanks for the free entertainment. :laughing:
Nope - not at all.

Unfortunately - YOU don't seem to b able to read anyway, sinc the Bible tells us that faith comes from HEARUNG the Word (Rom. 10:17), as I schooled you before.

How do you think all of your illiterate ancestors came to faith, Einstein?
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
21,655
3,591
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Speaking of illiterate...
Not that you would care - but I suffer from diabetic retinopathy, so I tend to make many typos when typing fast.

So, if you could just stick to the TOPIC at hand - you might learn something . . .
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
6,393
2,726
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Not that you would care - but I suffer from diabetic retinopathy, so I tend to make many typos when typing fast.

So, if you could just stick to the TOPIC at hand - you might learn something . . .

So stop typing fast.

Simple solution.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
21,655
3,591
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Roman Catholicism has many false doctrines

Purgatory, pope infallibility, Mary as Co-redemptor and mediator, indulgences, transubstantiation, just to mention a few
Can YOU define those for me? Do you even understand the Biblical doctrines?
Or do you just blindly believe in the anti-Catholic lies about them?

- Papal Infallibility
- Purgfatory
- Co-Redemptor/Mediator
- Indulgences
- Transibstantiateion
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
21,655
3,591
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I recognize your abominable spelling and grammar by paying attention.

You should do the same.
And I recognize your complete inability to pay attention by your idiotically posting the following from post #8317 - after I told you that faith comes from HEARING the Word of God (Rom. 10:17):
"So it's a Catholic sin to read the Word" . . .
 
Last edited:

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
21,655
3,591
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This shows yet again your lack of attention to detail. Which is why you can't be taken seriously.


LOL!!! This is a public forum, genius. Anyone can reply to any post they want. Every other person here knows that, so why don't you, Einstein Junior? You are the one who couldn't mind his own business in the first place and started ranting about things that have nothing to do with the topic of this thread. LOL! You are a comedian. Tell me again how I should pay you for all the laughs you've given me? I can't get this many laughs for free, can I?
Then don't complain when I lump you in with all of the other brain-donors . . .
 
Status
Not open for further replies.