PAUL WROTE DO NOT LISTEN TO THE PRETRIB RAPTURE TEACHERS

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
13,451
2,794
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No its not. We dont know if it is true. What is factual is he is called the man of sin. Let's use facts. Not speculation.

Again, Let's use the Bible, not speculation.
You're pushing malarkey.

The word "antichrist" Apostle John used about the one he said the brethren had ALREADY HEARD SHALL COME (1 John 2:18). So that means if THEY already knew and heard "antichrist" shall come, then why don't you?

But instead you want to push a baloney idea that no one knows who that "antichrist" is about??? That's just stupid.

Plenty of people disagree with that. Not everyone thinks a false Tempe is required. Come to think of it, arnt we the 3rd temple? And God says, whoever defiles the temple will be destroyed.

I'm sorry Davy, but it is you that are wrong.
You can be sorry for yourself, because what I'm saying isn't 'my' idea, it is written Scripture.

The "abomination of desolation" event for the 'end' that Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel is detailed in Daniel 11 about the acts of the "vile person". And there has already been a historical blueprint for that event that ALMOST fulfilled it. It was Antiochus IV that took Jerusalem with an army, went into the Jew's temple, sacrificed swine on the altar, and placed an IDOL in Zeus worship there instead, spiritually desolating the temple. But that was around 165-170 B.C. when Antiochus Epiphanes did that. Jesus quoted that "abomination of desolation" event around 200 years later placing it at the end just prior to His return!

Thus a NEW TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM is... REQUIRED to fulfill that prophecy! No ifs, no buts, that is the FACT of Bible Scripture, and either one aligns with Scripture as written, or they align with something else other than God's written Word, like you are trying to do.

So are you JEWISH? Do you follow Judaism instead of The New Testament? If not, then WHY... would you be against the "abomination of desolation" prophecy that requires another temple for the end?


Daniel 7:17 shows that 4 Kings rise from the Earth. These Kings are the 4 that have authority over the 4 beasts of the sea. Daniel even tells us, the 4th Beast is the 4th Kingdom on the earth (Daniel 7:23).
Might need to extend your understanding back to Daniel 2, which reveals 5 PIECES of the beast statue, NOT 4. I realize Daniel 7 is pointing to 4 beast kingdoms, but Daniel 2 is pointing to 5. The 5th one is the feet of part iron mixed with part clay and has ten toes. That specifically is where Daniel 2 says Jesus will smite the beast, and then all... of the 5 pieces together fall.


Revelation 19 details there is a Beast and a False prophet that wrought miracles. It even says that it was He that had the mark made. When we look at Rev 13, it says of the Beast of the Earth:
Yeah, I know what Revelation 16, 19, and 20 says about the "false prophet", but Rev.13 does not say anything about a "false prophet". Rev.13:11 forward is SPECIFICALLY speaking of the "another beast". And the miracles he does to deceive ALIGNS WITH...

1.
Matthew 24:23-26
where Lord Jesus warned about the coming of a 'singular' pseudochristos (Greek with 2 words, pseudo and christos. The KJV translators brought it into English as "false Christs", made it sound plural, but it's meant in the singular tense, as the Matthew 24:23 & 26 verses do reveal). That one is to work great signs and wonders that IF it were possible, would deceive even Christ's very elect.

2. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-9
about the "man of sin", "son of perdition", "that Wicked", same one who is to work those signs and lying wonders. Just a little different wording, but the SAME WARNING Lord Jesus gave.

3. Revelation 13:13-14,
about the "another beast". He is to work the "great wonders" and "miracles" to deceive the whole world. Again that great signs and wonders idea worded just a little different, but that is the SAME one Jesus warned of, and that Apostle Paul warned of, coming at the end of this world.


And you're gonna' try and tell me some malarkey that we cannot know what that title of "antichrist" is about?? The early Church fathers knew, and Brethren in Christ today HAD BETTER KNOW IN PREP FOR THAT FALSE ONE'S COMING UPON THIS EARTH IN OUR NEAR FUTURE TO WORK THOSE SIGNS AND WONDERS!

The word "antichrist" is from 2 Greek words, 'anti' which means 'in place of' or 'instead of', and 'christos' which means Christ. It simply means the 'instead of Christ'. Why else would Lord Jesus and His Apostles be warning us about that false one that is coming to work those great signs and wonders on earth to deceive the whole world? He is going to play CHRIST in JERUSALEM.
 
Last edited:

dad

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
3,495
448
83
65
private
normanbruleart.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
You quoted from Job:
Job 21:30
That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.


You asked: "So when is that reserved time? In the end."

Matthew ch24
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

The day of the Lord is a lot more than that. There are oodles events in that time of wrath, not just the day Jesus comes back to earth!


Acts ch2
In the last days, God says,
I will pour out My Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18Even on My menservants and maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20The sun will be turned to darkness,
and the moon to blood,
before the coming of the great and glorious Day of the Lord.
21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

What are the SAME statements that the LORD Jesus said in Matt ch24 that we SEE in Acts ch2 as well as Revelation and the Prophet Daniel
Old men will not see visions only on the day Jesus returns! His Spirit is not poured out only the day Jesus returns! Signs will not only be the day Jesus returns! In many many prophesies we see events of that final time. That time is not just the afternoon or morning that Jesus returns by any stretch of the imagination. If we look at the trumpets and vials we see that there are many events that span years.
 

dad

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
3,495
448
83
65
private
normanbruleart.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
No, I quoted Jesus from Rev 12. Satan's wrath is the GT.
Irellevant. A wet hornet might also have some wrath in that time. That no more makes the Great Tribulation the 'time of the hornet's wrath' than it makes it the time of Satan's wrath! Sure, both have wrath, whoopee doo. Those demon like creatures coming out of the pit at that time probably also have some wrath and do a lot of damage. But it is God's wrath and God who set it all up and allows it! I gave verses that talked about His wrath. The demons being angry or Satan at the time or the nations being angry changes nothing. All other anger pales in comparison and has little significance except as being PART of GOD'S wrath! The only reason Satan is even around at the time is because God sent him here!
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
11,815
6,237
113
49
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Irellevant. A wet hornet might also have some wrath in that time. That no more makes the Great Tribulation the 'time of the hornet's wrath' than it makes it the time of Satan's wrath! Sure, both have wrath, whoopee doo. Those demon like creatures coming out of the pit at that time probably also have some wrath and do a lot of damage. But it is God's wrath and God who set it all up and allows it! I gave verses that talked about His wrath. The demons being angry or Satan at the time or the nations being angry changes nothing. All other anger pales in comparison and has little significance except as being PART of GOD'S wrath! The only reason Satan is even around at the time is because God sent him here!
Willful rejection of scripture means willful ignorance of "it is written".

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

17AFTER that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keturah and ewq1938

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
11,815
6,237
113
49
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The day of the Lord is a lot more than that. There are oodles events in that time of wrath, not just the day Jesus comes back to earth!



Old men will not see visions only on the day Jesus returns! His Spirit is not poured out only the day Jesus returns! Signs will not only be the day Jesus returns! In many many prophesies we see events of that final time. That time is not just the afternoon or morning that Jesus returns by any stretch of the imagination. If we look at the trumpets and vials we see that there are many events that span years.
Don't be ignorant = the "last days" began with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

These "last days" and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon Believers continues all the way to His Second Coming.

"Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour." - 1 John 2:18

pre-trib rapture is a man made fable - it never came out of the Mouth of God and cannot be found in Scripture from Genesis to Revelation
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keturah and ewq1938

dad

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
3,495
448
83
65
private
normanbruleart.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Willful rejection of scripture means willful ignorance of "it is written".

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
Yes, we are coming back with Him. Do not pretend that because Satan has wrath in the tribulation, that that trumps the fact it is God's wrath and Satan is only part of that.

15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

17AFTER that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.
The Rapture. Correct. Very comforting to know Jesus is coming to take us out before He takes them out!
 

dad

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
3,495
448
83
65
private
normanbruleart.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Don't be ignorant = the "last days" began with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

These "last days" and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon Believers continues all the way to His Second Coming.

"Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour." - 1 John 2:18
The last hour is not the day of the Lord! The day of the Lord starts with the Rapture and includes the 1000 years.
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
11,815
6,237
113
49
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The last hour is not the day of the Lord! The day of the Lord starts with the Rapture and includes the 1000 years.
CORRECT - The Day of the Lord begins with His Second Coming and the Resurrection

There is no rapture until His Coming and the Resurrection - do not be ignorant
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
11,815
6,237
113
49
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, we are coming back with Him. Do not pretend that because Satan has wrath in the tribulation, that that trumps the fact it is God's wrath and Satan is only part of that.


The Rapture. Correct. Very comforting to know Jesus is coming to take us out before He takes them out!
YES, Jesus will Return = at His Second Coming and the Resurrection of the dead in Him.

The Saints(spirits of) who Return with JESUS are those who died = the LORD says "do not be ignorant of this"
 
  • Like
Reactions: ewq1938

dad

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
3,495
448
83
65
private
normanbruleart.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
CORRECT - The Day of the Lord begins with His Second Coming and the Resurrection

There is no rapture until His Coming and the Resurrection - do not be ignorant
No. The Rapture, the gathering of the church into the air including the dead in Christ is what kicks off the day of the Lord. The wrath of God is not something we are to be part of.
 

dad

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
3,495
448
83
65
private
normanbruleart.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
YES, Jesus will Return = at His Second Coming and the Resurrection of the dead in Him.

The Saints(spirits of) who Return with JESUS are those who died = the LORD says "do not be ignorant of this"
The dead in Christ did die! Then they were raised as we who were alive at the time also were. We then return to the earth with Him as where he is there will we also be. We then rule for 1000 years.
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
11,815
6,237
113
49
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No. The Rapture, the gathering of the church into the air including the dead in Christ is what kicks off the day of the Lord. The wrath of God is not something we are to be part of.
You just reversed Scripture which is a practice of satanists.
Are you a satanist?

Order of Events of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1.) His Second Coming with the spirits of the Saints

2.) All who died in Christ have their dead bodies Resurrected and Glorified

3.) AFTER that, alive remaining Saints are raptured and in the process are transformed into Glorified bodies (1 Cor ch15).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keturah

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
11,815
6,237
113
49
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The dead in Christ did die! Then they were raised as we who were alive at the time also were. We then return to the earth with Him as where he is there will we also be. We then rule for 1000 years.
CORRECT - except we never left the earth = like Noah we only rose above it, above those who remain under wrath on the earth.
 

dad

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
3,495
448
83
65
private
normanbruleart.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
You just reversed Scripture which is a practice of satanists.
Are you a satanist?

Order of Events of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1.) His Second Coming with the spirits of the Saints
Nope. He comes to bring us up into the air, starting with the dead in Christ whose spirits He brings with Him at the Rapture! They have their bodies raised and like us receive an eternal body like He has! That is before the second coming, so you know where you can place your false accusations. I kid you not.
2.) All who died in Christ have their dead bodies Resurrected and Glorified
Yes when we meet Him in the air that is what happens.
3.) AFTER that, alive remaining Saints are raptured and in the process are transformed into Glorified bodies (1 Cor ch15).
As explained that all happens in a moment in a twinkle of the eye at the Rapture.
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
7,305
1,455
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Irellevant.


No, it's proof. The GT is satan's wrath, a war against Christians who are the church. That's the entire purpose of the GT, for the church to be persecuted. Many will be killed. The only escape is Apostasy and I fear the majority will go that route.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keturah

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
7,305
1,455
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Does the False Prophet deny them? If you can find it, I’d believe it

The antichrist is an enemy of God and Christ. It doesn't matter what exact things he will say. Denial of the Father and Son is only one small part of the AC puzzle.