PAUL WROTE DO NOT LISTEN TO THE PRETRIB RAPTURE TEACHERS

[Keraz]

I showed you how Peter indicated that the last days had begun already on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:16-21) and that they lead up to the second coming of Christ (2 Peter 3:3-4). And you just ignore that. Why? Because you don't care about the truth, you care about selecting the verses that fit your false doctrine, take them out of context and ignore all the scripture that your doctrine contradicts. The concept of interpreting scripture with scripture while avoiding contradictions is clearly foreign to you. The fairy tale here is your doctrine that comes from your imagination.

Your idea that the 'last days' began in AD 1, are wrong and proved wrong by Acts 2:19-21, where the clearly described cosmic signs did not happen then and remain yet to happen now.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Your idea that the 'last days' began in AD 1, are wrong and proved wrong by Acts 2:19-21, where the clearly described cosmic signs did not happen then and remain yet to happen now.

What if they arnt cosmic? What if they, like much of the language, represent something else that did happen?

 

[Keraz]

What if they arnt cosmic? What if they, like much of the language, represent something else that did happen?

What is described in all of the Prophesies about the Lord's terrible Day of Judgment and punishment by fire, is something that we already know about and have experienced in a small way, many times. It will be a Coronal Mass ejection, an explosion on the suns surface, which has badly affected the earth before, but mostly just causes radio interference and auroras.

Scientists know that if a big CME were to be earth directed, it could destroy our modern infrastructure.
The thing is: there is nothing else that could and will; literally cause all the graphically Prophesies to happen. And why not? God will correct our untenable situation, we cannot just continue on like the world is now.

It will be as Luke 21:25-26 & 34-35, it will be our great test of faith; 1 Peter 4:12

 

[No Pre-TB]

What is described in all of the Prophesies about the Lord's terrible Day of Judgment and punishment by fire, is something that we already know about and have experienced in a small way, many times. It will be a Coronal Mass ejection,

But I asked you want if it's not cosmic signs. You're looking at it literally and this was given in the spirit. You want to paint the picture of a billion degree heat wave from the sun and the 144k walk in it wearing SPF 2 trillion. I know you read a lot of OT because you're always posting verse from it. How is it that you don't notice all the OT writings that mention what the stars falling mean? Or what a mountain burning on fire cast into the sea means.

 

[Keraz]

How is it that you don't notice all the OT writings that mention what the stars falling mean?

The Hebrew and Greek word translated 'stars', means any space object. Obviously the real stars like Alpha Centuri are too far away and would obliterate us if they fell on the earth. But today we have thousands of satellites in near orbit around the earth. It is well known that they can be pushed out of orbit by the suns emissions.
So; on the Day the Lord instigates a CME of an unprecedented magnitude; Psalms 11:4-6, our satellites will fall like ripe figs.

Or what a mountain burning on fire cast into the sea means.

Thet will happen later, at the Trumpet punishments of Revelation 8:6-12
They will be meteors, or a comet striking the earth.

These physical events are not 'spiritual' or have any other meaning than what they clearly say.

 

[Timtofly]

Your belief is based on speculation rather than on scripture. There is no scripture which says we will be taken to heaven when He returns. What is the point of meeting Him in the air if we will then be taken to heaven? Why not just be taken directly to heaven to meet Him there if that's where we were going to end up (we're not)?

Paul says we will forever be with the Lord. If Paul had said forever with Christ the King, you would have a point.

Do you think that God Himself is also coming to earth, or just Jesus?

Remember that at the 6th Seal, all on earth can see the GWT, and God sitting on it. Whose face is said is unable to be looked upon and live. The firmament will be gone at that point, yet people can see the face of the one sitting on the throne. Jesus is on the earth at that point. All the angels are on the earth at that point.

"And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

As you can see every single soul on earth, no one is left out, can see God on the throne, and the Lamb now on the mount of Olives per Zechariah 14. This is not Armageddon where they are in full battle array waiting to fight heaven's armies. This is the thief in the night moment where all are taken by surprise. The earth is destroyed and everything burned up, because they are hiding in caves, and under all the rubble. The church was raptured and forever with the Lord in Paradise. They remain in Paradise while Satan is bound, even though you deny that point. They then descend in the New Jerusalem. The New Jerusalem is the New Paradise.

You are the one impatient and claim the New Jerusalem descends even before the 7th Seal is opened, and any of the Trumpets have sounded. You have to totally avoid these verses:

"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."

God on the GWT is still present in heaven and in view of the earth, because those on earth can see God, and God can still be seen in heaven. Isaiah 66:1 Acts 7:48-49

"Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?"

"Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?"

From these verses we see, the throne is based on the earth, the pedestal, and in heaven, thus the GWT. So who is the Lord, exactly and why is the GWT still in the 6th Seal, prior to even heaven and earth passing away. There is no GWT in the NHNE.

"And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it."

Since God is now in the New Jerusalem itself, there is no throne. The GWT filled heaven and earth. Now God comes in the New Jerusalem which descends from heaven to earth. A totally different arrangement. The NHNE do not happen at the 6th Seal. 2 Peter 3 is Revelation 6, and the 6th Seal. Time still goes on, on the earth through the Trumpets and Thunders. Then there is the Day of the Lord itself. They are still waiting for the NHNE throughout the Day of the Lord.

So while Jesus is God, and Lord, the Lord is still God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as one. The Lord was in heaven in the first century, while Jesus was on earth, no?

The Lord is not on earth until the New Jerusalem comes down, when the GWT is no longer necessary. That was the point made when David wanted to build a building for God on earth. The Lord on the GWT would not "fit" in any human structure. Yet we see God in His New Jerusalem bringing His own structure to earth. And the church is in that structure with the Lord. So at the 6th Seal the church is forever with the Lord, until they both, the Lord and the church descend in the New Jerusalem.

"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

Does that not symbolize the Lord, bringing the church to meet Jesus Christ as King on the earth? It does not say Jesus is in the New Jerusalem at that point. Jesus is on the earth waiting for the bride to descend. A bride adorned for the husband is the walk down the isle. The husband is not walking down the isle. The husband has been waiting. The husband is not the Lord, God, or the Holy Spirit. The husband is Jesus Christ the King.

While this is all wedding imagery, there is still a literal Lord, literal Jesus, literal earth, and literal New Jerusalem. Yet you deny Jesus has been on the earth since the 6th Seal, up and until the NHNE. Jesus is on the earth for the entire Day of the Lord. Jesus is on the earth until creation is handed back after the Day of the Lord. Jesus is still on the NE waiting for the New Jerusalem to descend from the NH. If you are going to go with the wedding imagery, why not all the way, instead of cherry picking what you like and avoiding the parts that contradict your eschatology?

 

[Timtofly]

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Even in your translation the earth remains. It remains bare. You say the earth is not there and eternity is bare, sans any creation.

Peter's new heaven and earth is the same as Isaiah's new heaven and earth. People will live on it throughout the Day of the Lord.

John's NHNE is after the Day of the Lord, after Jesus hands back current creation. John describes Paul's handing back of creation as heaven and earth fleeing away, because the theme of Revelation is destruction. Jesus does not hand back a destroyed creation. The only parts destroyed are wicked works of man and Satan, and death is the last enemy destroyed. After the Day of the Lord, Satan is loosed one last time, yes even onto a perfect creation brought under subjection.

Those who follow Satan are consumed by fire, the last mention of death. Thus death is destroyed. We see death and sheol cast into the LOF. Fleeing away, passing away, are the same act as all returning to God, who becomes all in all. No more of this creation will exist, as it returns to the Creator that started it all from nothing.

The same with the instant NHNE coming from nothing to include everything all at once. Those on the old earth will not even feel the effect. They will be on the old earth one second and the next on the NE. Humans don't experience the change. Only John saw what happens all around those on earth and in Paradise, and he describes it as fleeing away. It literally did not flee away. That was the symbolism John used. When creation is returned to God, and no longer in existence, there was no intermediate state. The NHNE kicked in as if nothing happened at all. Fleeing away does not have to be violent even in the violent theme of the book of Revelation. Paul leaves us at the end, because Paul's theme was the restoration of Adam's disobedience to the Lord. The NHNE is not the restoration of Adam's condition. God's plan was a short creation with two Days of the Lord, and God knew Adam's disobedience would cover the rest of this creation, sandwiched between the two Days of the Lord.

Viewing Revelation 21 as the restoration is wrong, as Revelation 20 was the restoration. Satan being bound is the whole point of restoration. The last 2 Days have not been restoration. It is called the fulness of the Gentiles as opposed to the 2 Days prior where Israel was to lead all nations to God. Humans can no more restore the earth, than Satan can. Humans left to themselves would destroy the earth. All this technology where we can fix everything is just a smoke screen set up by Satan. And it will not get better after the Second Coming, while both Satan and Jesus are on the earth in this time called the greatest trouble ever. Once Satan is bound, the earth will be restored and literally over night. There is even a resurrection and judgment handed down before the Day of the Lord makes it through one 24 hour period. The point being, that this current creation was never going to last forever, even if Adam never disobeyed God ever. There would never have been 10 Commandments, but 10 Recognitions of Achievement. The 4th being:

Congratulations: You rembered the Sabbath Day. You kept the earth holy for 6 Days in honor of the 6 days of creation. Enter now into the Lord's Day of rest. You earned it.

Then, there would still be a NHNE. Always moving on to bigger and better.

 

[jamesdalbright]

Jesus said that if we could receive it Elijah had come (John the Baptist) no? So do you think the day of the Lord started then? But let's say you are right, and that the witnesses come 'before' the day of the Lord. So if the Rapture kicks off or starts the day of the Lord, that is a perfect fit!.

There is no pretrib rapture. Read my entire post and you will see when the day of the Lord begins.

 

[jamesdalbright]

Is the Falling Away a false teaching ?

I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the (now) end, as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the True Church can "Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a "Falling Away" from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

They were as follows:

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)

2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)

3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)

4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)

5. The Great Bible (1540)

6. The Beeches Bible (1576)

7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500s — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism.

One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James Bible changed the known understanding that has been around for 1100 some odd years.

Paul told us to not listen to the pretrib teachers.
THE FALLING AWAY IS WHEN DISINGENUOUS CHRISTIANS AND CULTS CEASE TO EVEN MENTION THE THINGS IN THE BIBLE
When the Antichrist emerges on the scene he will make a peace treaty between many nations and Israel and become the leader of the anti-Christian Woke Progressive movement throughout the world. When this occurs every cult member and disingenuous believer, except those who will genuinely believe in Jesus during the time of the Antichrist, will cease to even mention the Bible in fear of being arrested and fulfill the falling away described in Matt.24. This idea is formed when we take into consideration that Dan 9 tells us the Antichrist makes a peace treaty at the beginning of the week and breaks it in the middle of the week when he and the False Prophet set up the abomination of desolation in Jerusalem. When we connect this sequence with the fact that the falling away, found in Matt. 24:10 occurs before the Antichrist and the False Prophet break the peace treaty and set up the abomination of desolation found in Matt. 24:15 and the fact that it occurs at a point in time when we Christians will be hated by all, as well as it occurrs when false prophets will arise and family members will turn on family members, we can see that the falling away, found in Matt. 24:9-10 occurs when the Antichrist rises to power and becomes the leader of the anti-Christian Woke Progressive movement. The false prophets will most likely be the academics among the disingenuous Christians and cults, who will twist the scriptures in order to justify realigning their mores with the Woke Progressive anti-Christian mores. This idea is supported by the fact that Dan. 7:25 tell us the Antichrist and the False Prophet will alter times and law. The False Prophet will most likely perform the Satanic signs described in Rev.13:13-15 in order to deceive his followers into thinking the Antichrist is the one the prophets in the Bible foretold would come.
Matt. 24:8 “ But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. 9 “ Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name. 10 “And at that time many will fall away and will deliver up one another and hate one another. 11 “And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many.
Matt. 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place ( let the reader understand),
Dan. 7:25 ‘And he will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

 

[jamesdalbright]

If you look at the Malachi passage, Elijah will actually succeed in his ministry to restore their hearts to each other, and as Jesus added to this prophecy,

Matthew 17:11 KJV
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Elijah will fulfill his ministry, preparing the way for the LORD, readying the people to receive Jesus when He comes.

The 2 witnesses will prophecy and testify until the beast is given authority, which will then kill them. Until that time they cannot be killed.

Elijah will prepare the bride for her groom, which for me fits much better with him being with the Israelites who will flee to the wilderness, who will be there when Jesus comes a second time.

Much love!

Yes he will fulfill everything that is stated in the scriptures by the prophets. A young Jewish boy named Natan saw a dream in which he was shown that the two witnesses will protect the existing Christians in Israel and those who come to believe in Jesus during the time the Antichrist captures Jerusalem.

 

[jamesdalbright]

False. He lands on the mount of Olives and it is not burned at all! He rules nations that are alive! The flood never destroyed Noah and His return to earth will only destroy the wicked. Not the planet.

Revelation 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.



Nowhere does it say that the earth will vanish when He returns.

Mat 24: 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

The time when the new earth and heavens are created is very clearly after the 1000 years are over.


That reservation is for after the 1000 years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
....
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

That new heaven and earth was not before the thousand years. Clearly. Not even an issue.


There you go globbing things together and hyper conflating again. The time before when Jesus and us come back to earth to rule it and He destroys the wicked is not the time when the planet is destroyed completely.


God's wrath is the Tribulation as well as His return to deal with the wicked and dispose of them. It is after that when we rule the nations.

Dan 7:12 is the verse I use to show where the people who live during the 1000 years come from. Dan 7:13 marks the beginning of the 1000 years.

Dan. 7:9 “I kept looking


Until thrones were set up,


And the Ancient of Days took His seat;


His vesture was like white snow,


And the hair of His head like pure wool.


His throne was ablaze with flames,


Its wheels were a burning fire.


10 “A river of fire was flowing


And coming out from before Him;


Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,


And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;


The court sat,


And the books were opened.


11 “Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire. 12 “As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.


Dan. 7:13 “I kept looking in the night visions,


And behold, with the clouds of heaven


One like a Son of Man was coming,


And He came up to the Ancient of Days


And was presented before Him.


14 “And to Him was given dominion,


Glory and a kingdom,


That all the peoples, nations, and men of every language


Might serve Him.


His dominion is an everlasting dominion


Which will not pass away;


And His kingdom is one


Which will not be destroyed.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Paul told us to not listen to the pretrib teachers.
THE FALLING AWAY IS WHEN DISINGENUOUS CHRISTIANS AND CULTS CEASE TO EVEN MENTION THE THINGS IN THE BIBLE
When the Antichrist emerges on the scene he will make a peace treaty between many nations and Israel and become the leader of the anti-Christian Woke Progressive movement throughout the world. When this occurs every cult member and disingenuous believer, except those who will genuinely believe in Jesus during the time of the Antichrist, will cease to even mention the Bible in fear of being arrested and fulfill the falling away described in Matt.24. This idea is formed when we take into consideration that Dan 9 tells us the Antichrist makes a peace treaty at the beginning of the week and breaks it in the middle of the week when he and the False Prophet set up the abomination of desolation in Jerusalem.

I corrected you in red since we should stick to the Bible and not what we think.
1. What some say is the Antichrist, may or may not be. What he is called is the Man of sin or man of lawlessness.
2. The treaty is with many. Israel is not mentioned in the treaty, but they could be part of it.
3. Woke progressive movement may have a correlation, but we don't know. We must be careful what we say and not go outside what the Bible says.
4. As many who think an Antichrist makes a peace treaty with many, it is not mentioned as a peace treaty but just a treaty or covenant. Secondly, many believe the covenant with many was Christ for the remission of sins with his death on the cross since he is the ONLY prince mentioned in the context.
5. There is no Antichrist and a False prophet. The man of sin is the False prophet. This is easily deduced by compare and contrast between Daniel 7 and Revelation 13. Sadly, there are many fabrications taught by men and passed down that are just not Biblical. We all learned them

 

[No Pre-TB]

The Hebrew and Greek word translated 'stars', means any space object.

Not so. By the figure of the seven stars which Christ holds in his right hand, Revelation 1:16; Revelation 2:1; Revelation 3:1, are signified the angels of the seven churches. Also, wandering stars, Jude 1:13 which we are told are men as filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Again, taking Revelation hyper literal is a mistake.

 

[Enoch111]

There is no Antichrist and a False prophet. The man of sin is the False prophet.

This is PATENTLY FALSE. The Antichrist is called "the Beast" in Revelation 13 and here is what we read in Revelation 20: And [1] the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [2] the beast and [3] the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Rev 20:10)

So what we have is the "Unholy Trinity". The False Prophet is called "another beast" as opposed to "the first beast": And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. (Rev 13:11)

 

[Davy]

I corrected you in red since we should stick to the Bible and not what we think.
1. What some say is the Antichrist, may or may not be. What he is called is the Man of sin or man of lawlessness.

Looks like you need some correcting yourself.

The word "antichrist" is OK to use even pointing back to the Book of Daniel, for Apostle John simply used the idea of a singular "antichrist" (means 'in place of Christ') for the coming false one at the end of this world that has many titles, like the "dragon", "little horn", "vile person", "king of fierce countenance", "another beast", pseudo-christos, "son of perdition", "Abaddon", "Apollyon", "angel of the bottomless pit", etc.

2. The treaty is with many. Israel is not mentioned in the treaty, but they could be part of it.

Israel doesn't have to be mentioned when the Dan.9:27 prophecy is specifically speaking about the "vile person" in Jerusalem that will make the "league" with a small group of Jews, and eventually ends their sacrifices and instead places the abomination that makes desolate.

3. Woke progressive movement may have a correlation, but we don't know. We must be careful what we say and not go outside what the Bible says.

It does, because it's a ploy used by Communism in order to negatively influence conservatives which 'especially' means an attack upon Christ's Church! (see Cleon Skousen's 45 strategic points developed in 1958 by the Soviet communists in their takeover plans against the Christian West.)

4. As many who think an Antichrist makes a peace treaty with many, it is not mentioned as a peace treaty but just a treaty or covenant. Secondly, many believe the covenant with many was Christ for the remission of sins with his death on the cross since he is the ONLY prince mentioned in the context.

The "league" which the "vile person" of Daniel 11 will make with "a small people" (meaning a small group), will 'especially'... be about re-establishing old covenant worship in Jerusalem and building the next Jewish temple in Jerusalem which requires that. For that to happen, obviously the nations around today's Israel must be involved to allow it. Rev.13:4-8 tells us the "dragon" will have power over all peoples and nations for 42 months (1260 days), so that reveals the "league" is probably going to involve world peace for all nations in that future. Apostle Paul did say in 1 Thess.5 that when 'they' (the deceived), say, "Peace and safety", then a "sudden destruction" will come upon them.

5. There is no Antichrist and a False prophet. The man of sin is the False prophet. This is easily deduced by compare and contrast between Daniel 7 and Revelation 13. Sadly, there are many fabrications taught by men and passed down that are just not Biblical. We all learned them

Wrong. The "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward has NO mention of a false prophet. The Rev.16:13, Rev.19:20, and Rev.20:10 verses do mention about the "false prophet". And Rev.19 shows the "beast" and "false prophet" go into the "lake of fire" ON THE DAY OF JESUS' FUTURE RETURN. So what's that reveal?

During this present world, ONLY Satan and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish in the future "lake of fire". NO FLESH BORN MAN is Judged to perish DURING THIS PRESENT WORLD. That Judgment for those born in the flesh doesn't happen until AFTER Christ's future 1,000 years reign per Rev.20.

Since the "beast" and "false prophet" go into the "lake of fire" BEFORE God's GWT Judgment, what does that mean? Satan doesn't get cast in that "lake of fire" yet when Jesus returns, so what's that mean???

It means this--- the "beast" and "false prophet" are ROLES that the "another beast" will play. And it's going to be Satan himself, because we're shown in Revelation chapters 9, 11, 13, and 17, about Satan as the "dragon", and beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit, and as the angel of the bottomless pit, and as the 7th king that is already assigned to perdition in the future "lake of fire".

 

[Davy]

This is PATENTLY FALSE. The Antichrist is called "the Beast" in Revelation 13 and here is what we read in Revelation 20: And [1] the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [2] the beast and [3] the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Rev 20:10)

So what we have is the "Unholy Trinity". The False Prophet is called "another beast" as opposed to "the first beast": And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. (Rev 13:11)

You need to look again...

The "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward has NO mention of a false prophet. The Rev.16:13, Rev.19:20, and Rev.20:10 verses do mention about the "false prophet". And Rev.19 shows the "beast" and "false prophet" go into the "lake of fire" ON THE DAY OF JESUS' FUTURE RETURN. So what's that reveal?

During this present world, ONLY Satan and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish in the future "lake of fire". NO FLESH BORN MAN is Judged to perish DURING THIS PRESENT WORLD. That Judgment for those born in the flesh doesn't happen until AFTER Christ's future 1,000 years reign per Rev.20.

Since the "beast" and "false prophet" go into the "lake of fire" BEFORE God's GWT Judgment, what does that mean? Satan doesn't get cast in that "lake of fire" yet when Jesus returns, so what's that mean???

It means this--- the "beast" and "false prophet" are ROLES that the "another beast" will play. And it's going to be Satan himself, because we're shown in Revelation chapters 9, 11, 12, 13, and 17, about Satan as the "dragon", and beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit, and as the angel of the bottomless pit, and as the 7th king that is already assigned to perdition in the future "lake of fire".

 

[No Pre-TB]

The Antichrist is called "the Beast" in Revelation 13

No. The word Antichrist doesnt exist in Rev 13. And this may be difficult for you, but there are 2 Beasts.

 

[Enoch111]

No. The word Antichrist doesnt exist in Rev 13.

So what? Do you have a problem connecting dots?

 

[Enoch111]

The "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward has NO mention of a false prophet.

Here's another one having a problem connecting dots. See Rev 16:13 and 19:20.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Looks like you need some correcting yourself.

The word "antichrist" is OK to use

No its not. We dont know if it is true. What is factual is he is called the man of sin. Let's use facts. Not speculation.

It does, because it's a ploy used by Communism

Again, Let's use the Bible, not speculation.

building the next Jewish temple in Jerusalem which requires that.

Plenty of people disagree with that. Not everyone thinks a false Tempe is required. Come to think of it, arnt we the 3rd temple? And God says, whoever defiles the temple will be destroyed.

Wrong. The "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward has NO mention of a false prophet.

I'm sorry Davy, but it is you that are wrong.

Daniel 7:17 shows that 4 Kings rise from the Earth. These Kings are the 4 that have authority over the 4 beasts of the sea. Daniel even tells us, the 4th Beast is the 4th Kingdom on the earth (Daniel 7:23).

Revelation 19 details there is a Beast and a False prophet that wrought miracles. It even says that it was He that had the mark made. When we look at Rev 13, it says of the Beast of the Earth:
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do
and
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

It's not hard to figure out the Beast of the Earth is the False Prophet.

Rev 13:13-15 says this Beast that rises from the Earth does:
1. Great Wonders
2. deceives them on the Earth
3. Had power to give life to the image

What power? The same power from Satan that was given to the beast of the sea per Rev 13:4

Now, 2 Thess 2:9 shows the attributes of the man of sin.
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;

The False Prophet does the same things mentioned as the man of sin.

When you make the Beast of the Sea as a man, you do harm to scripture. One, the Beast of the Sea has:
1. The first was like a lion
2. a second, like to a bear
3. leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl

None are men. They all represent Kingdoms that are ruled by a men that rises from the Earth:
Rev 7:17
These great beasts, which are four, four kings, shall arise out of the earth.

If you pay attention to detail, the man of sin is called a "horn". Not the Beast of the sea itself.

I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

The horn is the man that rises from the Earth to rule the 4th Kingdom Beast of the sea. And through simple deduction, Rev 13 shows that Beast in the opening chapter is a Kingdom.

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Who has the authority here? The beast of the sea or the 10 horns with 10 crowns? When the, another horn comes, he will be the ruler of the Kingdom.