Is Reincarnation baloney?

[QuantumBit]

@friend of

The bottom line to all of this is that Mystery Babylon represents the Earthly Mother of the Human Race.

The 'harlots and abominations' she gives birth to is us... as in all of us here on this planet.

The Golden Cup she holds is the Forbidden Fruit. It is representative of her Ovary mixed with the Seed of Satan. In other words, the Golden Cup represents the Zygote Adam and Eve incarnated into in the Garden of Eden. It also represents the Zygote *YOU* were incarnated into.

That means you, I and everyone else partook of the Forbidden Fruit in our Mom's belly to incarnate into this world.

Revelation 17:4
"And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication"

It happened once, it can happen again. We ALL drank...

Jeremiah 51:7
"Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD’S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad."

All means all. Every single person since Adam and Eve drank the Forbidden Fruit Zygote to be born here.

The Unsaved have to drink it again...

Revelation 14:10
"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb"

It is a continual cycle until ALL ARE SAVED as the Universalists believe.

We are Children of Gehenna LITERALLY...

Matthew 23:15 (Literal Standard Version)
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you go around the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and whenever it may happen—you make him a son of Gehenna twofold more than yourselves."

The phrase 'Son of Gehenna' is just as literal as 'Son of God' or any other 'Son of' in the Bible. It refers to our Parents.

Gehenna leads to Moloch. The children 'pass through the fire' to Moloch. This is Old Testament Truth.

Moloch is an evolution of the Golden Calf who represents Hathor, the Womb or Uterus...

​

Stephen was stoned to death for revealing that Truth to the world. They hated him for that, just as you and the others hate me for the fact that I believe God is Love. You, and everyone here, teaches that God is Hate. I disagree whole heartedly.

And just because I know something you do not, does not mean you have a right to claim I am being 'esoteric', whatever that means. We are not in a Secret Society. We are not keeping things hidden. We are not 'Initiates'. We are discussing Biblical Truth out in the open.

The burden of proof is on you and the others here. Not a single verse has been provided debunking reincarnation.

I have posted many that prove it is Truth. Jesus taught it plainly.

 

[QuantumBit]

Irregardless, the very concept of reincarnation is unscriptural and this is Christianity 101.

Reincarnation being unscripural is Christian False Dogma 101. You and the others here never bothered to be Bereans, and now you parrot the False Narrative that God is HATE. At least the Universalists are close. They understand that there is a 'refinement' that happens in the Lake of Fire. They are almost there.

 

[friend of]

Thats quite the diverse perspective. Ive never heard of all that before. That's fine, i'll leave it at that. I guess you're calling Paul a liar then. Have a good one

 

[QuantumBit]

For those who are mature enough to handle and understand that the concept of Mother Earth is NOT a so called 'pagan' idea, but an actual fundamental teaching of the Bible, may find more information in this thread...

Mystery Babylon Identified in Only Two Verses

Satan has worked overtime to spread superstition and paranoia amongst Churches to the point where many simply short-circuit and have epic meltdowns when they hear the term 'Mother Earth'. Talk about being hypnotized. It is pure ignorance on a massive scale. Well done, Satan, well done.

 

[Enoch111]

For those who are mature enough to handle and understand that the concept of Mother Earth is NOT a so called 'pagan' idea, but an actual fundamental teaching of the Bible, may find more information in this thread...

There is no immaturity in rejecting pagan concepts. This whole evil Climate Change Movement is all because the virtually pagan world today is worshipping "Mother Earth". Destroy humanity to preserve "Mother Earth"! Did you ever see such stupidity before? There is not even a hint of this nonsense in the Bible.

 

[friend of]

There is no immaturity in rejecting pagan concepts. This whole evil Climate Change Movement is all because the virtually pagan world today is worshipping "Mother Earth". Destroy humanity to preserve "Mother Earth"! Did you ever see such stupidity before? There is not even a hint of this nonsense in the Bible.

Ya!

 

[St. SteVen]

I haven't seen anything Biblical to support reincarnation. I've seen accounts given by seemingly credible people but my guess is that they are being fed information and false memories by demonic forces.

Then again, with God anything is possible so I cannot authoritatively rule it out just like I can't rule out that unicorns once roamed Earth.

I recall this bit.
But it doesn't really say the spirit is sent again.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 NIV
and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

 

[St. SteVen]

I've seen accounts given by seemingly credible people but my guess is that they are being fed information and false memories by demonic forces.

That reminds me of the claims that come up in seances of channeling spirits. But again, not really reincarnation, as I understand it,

 

[St. SteVen]

I find some of the posts here ironic since Universalism and reincarnation are often in agreement with each other, and Universalism is allowed to be discussed here.

That's a good point.
I'm a UR advocate, and I post about that when appropriate.
But UR has a long history with the church. It was a dominant theology in the early church.
Probably can't say that about reincarnation.

Here's are some general questions. (without getting into support)
- If reincarnation were true, how would it fit into the plan for humankind?
Perhaps this is on the eschatology side?
- How, or why, would these cycles end?
- What do they mean in reference to the final judgment?
One soul judged for multiple lifetimes? Or ???

 

[St. SteVen]

Reincarnation is not real and only people who practice and believe in the occult would believe in reincarnation, the dead are dead.

Begs the question.
What does it mean to be dead?
Jesus made a very curious statement in this regard.

Luke 20:38 NIV
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

 

[Mr E]

Are you for real? How can you accuse me of such a thing? Here is the EXACT scripture I quoted: Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,"

After the judgement, the saved and unsaved are separated for eternity. The unsaved experience the second death, while the saved put on immortality and are resurrected to eternal life.

Since you seem focused on this one verse in all of scripture let's look at it. Nevermind that you are completely ignoring foundational principles taught throughout scripture (seeds-- and plants and trees, that though they die and are buried in the ground- they live again, albeit by regeneration since 'reincarnation' is such a charged concept, I'll avoid using it.)

Heb 9-- And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment...

As @QuantumBit mentioned, this verse doesn't present a problem for the 'born again' believers. You live your life, you die, your body is buried in the earth, your spirit returns to God and you stand before Him to be judged. This is the case for all. What you and others get hung up on is the 'once to die' part. Here's what you are missing....

As with a seed planted in the ground- the LIFE is not the seed itself, but within the seed. The LIFE itself is a mystery in that it is of God-- it's His seed we are talking about. Divine Life. So though a seed can be considered a new beginning or a 'creation' of sorts, it has a known origin. The Father of Life. His seed.

Scripture says that though it starts as the tiniest of things, it grows and matures and becomes a tree that the birds of the air can nest and rest in. I'll not distract by going into the detail of these birds of the air, but if you are the seed, you are also the tree. Again, as we read in scripture the tree is judged by it's fruit. This is the judgment Hebrews is speaking of. One seed, that becomes a tree, that season after season is judged on the basis of the fruit it produces- and elsewhere in scripture we can understand what these fruits are. The concept is consistent.... season after season, and we can broaden the concept to understand that for us our season is in fact our life-span.

From that seed- a tree, from that tree- fruit, from that fruit-- seed for the next generation of life. Be fruitful and multiply was the original command and intent for us. What comes from that original seed as the re-generation is of course not the same tree. Not the same seed. But it is the same Life. It comes from that original and in this sense it is a continuation from that to this. We can agree on this concept for all of human history from creation on and we even call this a family tree, of which all humans are a part. To put it all in the most simple way-- did Adam and Eve reincarnate? No, not in the way that people have chosen to understand the term. But in the broad sense the Life that began in them, the seed of the woman and the seed of the man-- continued and the same life that was in them is in all who have lived from then on up to and including all who are alive at this moment.

While the seed we speak of is physical-- the LIFE itself is Divine.

Regarding the judgment itself- we can read about the judgment of Jesus in Rev 5, and in Rev 20 you can read about these end-of-life judgments in a more general sense, but there is a story he told while he walked among us that illustrates the concept using these same principles I've laid out.... it comes from Luke 13-

A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came looking for fruit on it and found none. So he said to the worker who tended the vineyard, ‘For three years now, I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree, and each time I inspect it I find none. Cut it down! Why should it continue to deplete the soil?’ But the worker answered him, ‘Sir, leave it alone this year too, until I dig around it and put fertilizer on it. Then if it bears fruit next year, very well, but if not, you can cut it down.’”


It tells the story of "a tree" that has faced judgment already three times, and this is the fourth. If, as you and Hebrews 9 propose- that you live once and then face judgment... this particular tree has lived four times as this is the fourth judgment and still the plea is given to a merciful judge to give that tree every advantage one more time that it might finally produce fruit and not be cut down and destroyed with finality. This Jesus offers us in order that we might understand our Father in heaven.

 

[St. SteVen]

The burden of proof is on you and the others here. Not a single verse has been provided debunking reincarnation.

I think the standard rebuttal is this verse below, which is also used against UR.

Hebrews 9:27 NIV
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

 

[friend of]

From that seed- a tree, from that tree- fruit, from that fruit-- seed for the next generation of life.

The tree that begets seed does not itself become a seed again, it grows old and eventually dies. If the spiritual life is what seed and growth represents, it's not talking about reincarnation into this life, that's for sure.

 

[friend of]

It tells the story of "a tree" that has faced judgment already three times, and this is the fourth. If, as you and Hebrews 9 propose- that you live once and then face judgment... this particular tree has lived four times as this is the fourth judgment and still the plea is given to a merciful judge to give that tree every advantage one more time that it might finally produce fruit and not be cut down and destroyed with finality. This Jesus offers us in order that we might understand our Father in heaven.

How has a tree that is alive and not cut down lived 4 times? Like what? It's only alive once.

 

[friend of]

Gehenna leads to Moloch. The children 'pass through the fire' to Moloch. This is Old Testament Truth

Furthermore, the Lake of Fire was created for "the devil and his angels"

It was not created as some kind of cleansing fire which human souls repeatedly pass through upon reincarnation.

 

[Nancy]

I haven't seen anything Biblical to support reincarnation. I've seen accounts given by seemingly credible people but my guess is that they are being fed information and false memories by demonic forces.

Then again, with God anything is possible so I cannot authoritatively rule it out just like I can't rule out that unicorns once roamed Earth.

Numbers 24:8: "God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows."

Deuteronomy 33:17: "His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh."

It's just the KJV that uses the word "unicorn". Most translate it as "wild ox". I think it just means "one horned", like the Rhino. Makes sense I think...?

 

[Mr E]

How has a tree that is alive and not cut down lived 4 times? Like what? It's only alive once.

I was following your logic. You say that judgment comes once per life. You tell me how is it this tree is judged four times?

 

[Mr E]

The tree that begets seed does not itself become a seed again, it grows old and eventually dies. If the spiritual life is what seed and growth represents, it's not talking about reincarnation into this life, that's for sure.

Forget “reincarnation.” You and so many others can’t get passed the term.


Think rather in terms of life eternal, or everlasting life. Those are the terms that scripture uses.

 

[QuantumBit]

There is no immaturity in rejecting pagan concepts. This whole evil Climate Change Movement is all because the virtually pagan world today is worshipping "Mother Earth". Destroy humanity to preserve "Mother Earth"! Did you ever see such stupidity before? There is not even a hint of this nonsense in the Bible.

I address this in my other thread...

When Adam and his Wife partook of the Forbidden Zygotes, they incarnated into the corrupt bodies we have today. The Harlot is our Mother and Satan is our Father in the most literal sense. This is why we need to be Born Again. We need new parents!

John seemed to understand who the Earth Mother was and *ADMIRED HER*...

Revelation 17:6
"And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration."

The word 'Admired' means to have a deep and profound LOVE. Do you understand? Hate is not the correct emotion to have. Christians have no clue! They need to show a little gratitude. The New Agers, etc. do of course, however they cannot see the overall picture. There is a New Earth they need to be transported to via the Blood of Christ.

 

[QuantumBit]

Here's are some general questions. (without getting into support)
- If reincarnation were true, how would it fit into the plan for humankind?

There was a thread I saw recently. Was it here? The title said something like "What exactly is Jesus saving us from?"

I found the question to be rather profound because if people went to Heaven in the Old Testament, why the need for Jesus?

The answer is that most did not go to Heaven. They reincarnated. Jesus is saving us from that endless cycle.

- How, or why, would these cycles end?

The cycle ended with the Crucifixion. That was its ultimate purpose.

- What do they mean in reference to the final judgment?
One soul judged for multiple lifetimes? Or ???

Hebrews 9:27 teaches that every life will be judged. The Saved of course have their sentences thrown out and go to the New Jerusalem. The Unsaved come back here to 'reap what they sow' according to God's Law and Divine Justice.