Who is the Antichrist? Let's Put a Name on Him.

[BarneyFife]

Peace Friend,

What you said here is the main point:
"It is, of course, usually claimed that no offense is intended, and that only the system of worship is being addressed." = Truth

All cults have their leaders, big or small does not matter. The most prominent being the roman catholic church.

Christ came to set the captives free = which HE did for me being a former rcc member, from birth and thru daily education of it.

Wherever the word of God is preached souls will be saved = for it is God who Justifies and Him alone..........

Barney, be wonderfully Blessed Today in the Love of Christ and thank You for your post that i largely agree with = Peace
AND
Forgive my hasty post by which i offended you.

.
This graciousness from you is truly appreciated, although not surprising, considering the contact I've had with you in the past, my friend. The business about "cult"-calling was not aimed directly at you and I assumed that your case was the exception to the rule regarding ad hominem. It appears that there was no offense to forgive at all. In any case, my grandmother taught me that forgiveness is not an event, but an attitude. I try to keep myself in an attitude of prayer that stands ready to forgive, even while any given offense is being meted out. I confess I fail all too often.

He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty; and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city. (Proverbs 16:32)

...He has conquered self—the strongest foe man has to meet. The highest evidence of nobility in a Christian is self-control.

He who can stand unmoved amid a storm of abuse is one of God's heroes....

He who has learned to rule his spirit will rise above the slights, the rebuffs, the annoyances to which we are daily exposed, and these will cease to cast a gloom over his spirit.

It is God's purpose that the kingly power of sanctified reason, controlled by divine grace, shall bear sway in the lives of human beings. He who rules his spirit is in possession of this power.

The man or woman who preserves the balance of the mind when tempted to indulge passion, stands higher in the sight of God and heavenly angels than the most renowned general that ever led an army to battle and to victory.—EGW


Much peace and joy to you in the LORD Jesus! :)
.

 

[Timtofly]

He behaved as a senseless beast while still a man with a soul and spirit. Christ took his reasoning light away that He gives every man coming into the world.


And act like them. Pigs too. ;)


That's true but the Bible is also written to reveal certain things to us in plain words. Unless that man of sin is not that beast, then that beast is that man of sin. Now over in Rev 9 there appears to be half-men half-beasts. And that man of sin will no doubt be a completely senseless nutjob for trying to make war with the Lord Himself. So I suppose there is room for speculation about his physical make up, since some are even suggesting he is Nimrod made to live again. But he certainly isn't a system as some say, because his number is that of a man that will be taken and cast into the lake of fire.

Paul's "man of sin" is Satan. Paul calls Satan the lawless one. Paul never calls Satan a dragon. John did though.

That Wicked is the image coming to life. Paul is not saying there has to be a seven year period of a human ruler called the AC before the Second Coming can happen. That is bad eschatology.

Satan is a beast but a specific beast, a dragon. John's use of beast is a more generic "in passing" thought. There is not one single beast throughout the book. There are several generic beasts referenced. Sometimes referring to Satan, sometimes referring to humanity. Only context can show when and how.

 

[David in NJ]

Paul's "man of sin" is Satan. Paul calls Satan the lawless one. Paul never calls Satan a dragon. John did though.

That Wicked is the image coming to life. Paul is not saying there has to be a seven year period of a human ruler called the AC before the Second Coming can happen. That is bad eschatology.

Satan is a beast but a specific beast, a dragon. John's use of beast is a more generic "in passing" thought. There is not one single beast throughout the book. There are several generic beasts referenced. Sometimes referring to Satan, sometimes referring to humanity. Only context can show when and how.

The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan,

 

[Timtofly]

The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan,

Which started with the relationship between Satan and Antiochus Epiphanes. Satan is the father of western thought that started with the Greeks and was handed down to the Romans.

This lawlessness can be found in philosophy and science all the way up to modern day thought processes. We are not waiting for a single moment in history. We have been spoon fed deception for 2500 years.

 

[David in NJ]

Which started with the relationship between Satan and Antiochus Epiphanes. Satan is the father of western thought that started with the Greeks and was handed down to the Romans.

This lawlessness can be found in philosophy and science all the way up to modern day thought processes. We are not waiting for a single moment in history. We have been spoon fed deception for 2500 years.

Now you are talking my kind of language.

 

[David in NJ]

Which started with the relationship between Satan and Antiochus Epiphanes. Satan is the father of western thought that started with the Greeks and was handed down to the Romans.

This lawlessness can be found in philosophy and science all the way up to modern day thought processes. We are not waiting for a single moment in history. We have been spoon fed deception for 2500 years.

More precisely, satan started his campaign in the Garden of Eden - as far as mankind is concerned.

 

[Naomi25]

And in Premill, Jesus is reigning but not with the rod of iron yet which is a very specific period of time, ruling over the mortal nations not slain at the second coming and yes, scripture promises such a reign over mortals in multiple places namely the end of Rev 2 and 19. We believe the "eternal state" is when the saints become immortal, at the second coming, so it happening earlier than in your view.

If I may, I would like to focus in on one particular point you've made. You've said, 'ruling over the mortal nations not slain at the second coming'. And then later, referred to the saints becoming immortal at the second coming.
My concern is with the first statement, and the idea behind it; as far as I can see from scripture, no one, saint or sinner, gets through the second coming without being judged. Judged either into eternal damnation, or eternal righteousness.
There are many verses that seem to support this:


2 Thessalonians 1:6–10
[6] since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, [7] and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels [8] in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. [9] They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, [10] when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.

Matthew 25:31–33, 46
[31] “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. [32] Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. [33] And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left....[46] And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Matthew 24:30–31
[30] Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1 Thessalonians 4:16–17
[16] For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [17] Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:23, 51-53
[23] But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ....[51] Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, [52] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. [53] For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.



My point with all this is: sure...we can agree readily enough on the saints who receive their immortal bodies at Christ's return. But I'm wondering where on earth the 'mortal nations' can possibly come from? Who could possibly make it through Christ's second coming in a natural body...without being judged one way or another? Is there any bible verse anywhere that suggests folks get around judgement on this day? That it gets delayed for a special reason or purpose? If there is, please point it out, because I'm unaware of it.

 

[David in NJ]

If I may, I would like to focus in on one particular point you've made. You've said, 'ruling over the mortal nations not slain at the second coming'. And then later, referred to the saints becoming immortal at the second coming.
My concern is with the first statement, and the idea behind it; as far as I can see from scripture, no one, saint or sinner, gets through the second coming without being judged. Judged either into eternal damnation, or eternal righteousness.
There are many verses that seem to support this:


2 Thessalonians 1:6–10
[6] since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, [7] and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels [8] in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. [9] They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, [10] when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.

Matthew 25:31–33, 46
[31] “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. [32] Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. [33] And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left....[46] And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Matthew 24:30–31
[30] Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1 Thessalonians 4:16–17
[16] For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [17] Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:23, 51-53
[23] But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ....[51] Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, [52] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. [53] For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.



My point with all this is: sure...we can agree readily enough on the saints who receive their immortal bodies at Christ's return. But I'm wondering where on earth the 'mortal nations' can possibly come from? Who could possibly make it through Christ's second coming in a natural body...without being judged one way or another? Is there any bible verse anywhere that suggests folks get around judgement on this day? That it gets delayed for a special reason or purpose? If there is, please point it out, because I'm unaware of it.

YES
Read Daniel chapter 7 = in it you will see that not everyone is destroyed.

 

[ewq1938]

My point with all this is: sure...we can agree readily enough on the saints who receive their immortal bodies at Christ's return. But I'm wondering where on earth the 'mortal nations' can possibly come from?

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming. The treading and smiting are happening at Armageddon but not the ruling which proves mortals will be alive after Armageddon is over. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.


A second witness to this:

Revelation 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the mortal unsaved nations after Christ has returned not before it.

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.

It is impossible to understand what happens at the second coming and what happens AFTER the second coming properly without understanding the verb tenses involved.

 

[Brakelite]

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming. The treading and smiting are happening at Armageddon but not the ruling which proves mortals will be alive after Armageddon is over. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.


A second witness to this:

Revelation 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the mortal unsaved nations after Christ has returned not before it.

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.

It is impossible to understand what happens at the second coming and what happens AFTER the second coming properly without understanding the verb tenses involved.

The question I would have at this point is, where will all these folks live, considering the earth itself is utterly broken, destroyed, and every vestige of man's inventiveness and prowess laid in ruin? And from where will he obtain food, considering all agriculture and manufacturer utterly impossible for to pollution, including nuclear?

 

[ewq1938]

The question I would have at this point is, where will all these folks live, considering the earth itself is utterly broken, destroyed, and every vestige of man's inventiveness and prowess laid in ruin?

The Earth won't be as you describe plus we can see where they were living because the devil goes to them:

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

[Brakelite]

The Earth won't be as you describe plus we can see where they were living because the devil goes to them:

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

It's not me describing the earth, its scripture.
KJV Isaiah 24:18-20
18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

KJV Jeremiah 4:23-28
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

KJV Jeremiah 25:31-33
31 A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD.
32 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.

KJV Revelation 6:13-17
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

KJV Revelation 16:19-21
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

The above is but a sample. After the 7 plagues the earth will be unhabitable, everyone will be dead or in heaven. It is at the end of the millennium that the earth is made new, and becomes the home of the redeemed. That is when the meek inherit the earth. They don't inherit an earth upon which is the detritus of war, violence, nuclear fallout and bloodshed.

 

[David in NJ]

The question I would have at this point is, where will all these folks live, considering the earth itself is utterly broken, destroyed, and every vestige of man's inventiveness and prowess laid in ruin? And from where will he obtain food, considering all agriculture and manufacturer utterly impossible for to pollution, including nuclear?

Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.
Eze 36:33

 

[ewq1938]

It's not me describing the earth, its scripture.
KJV Isaiah 24:18-20
18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

KJV Jeremiah 4:23-28
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

KJV Jeremiah 25:31-33
31 A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD.
32 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.

KJV Revelation 6:13-17
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

KJV Revelation 16:19-21
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

The above is but a sample. After the 7 plagues the earth will be unhabitable, everyone will be dead or in heaven.

Most of those passages are either not what the Earth is like during the thousand years and not speaking of that time, or they don't prohibit life to continue on the planet. I have already proven the nations are ruled over past the second coming so what do you do with those passages? Both directly deal with the nations post-the Coming.

It is at the end of the millennium that the earth is made new, and becomes the home of the redeemed. That is when the meek inherit the earth. They don't inherit an earth upon which is the detritus of war, violence, nuclear fallout and bloodshed.

They do live on the Earth ruling over the nations. They even have their own place called the camp of the saints outside of Jerusalem.

 

[Brakelite]

Most of those passages are either not what the Earth is like during the thousand years and not speaking of that time, or they don't prohibit life to continue on the planet. I have already proven the nations are ruled over past the second coming so what do you do with those passages? Both directly deal with the nations post-the Coming.





They do live on the Earth ruling over the nations. They even have their own place called the camp of the saints outside of Jerusalem.

KJV Revelation 20:9
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

This passage is speaking of the literal city, the new Jerusalem that descends out of heaven at the end on the millennium, and which is populated by the redeemed. Satan, who until this time was some with his demons, now has the opportunity to gather together an army of resurrected wicked from all over the earth, convincing them that taking the city is their only hope of survival. After God reveals to everyone the justice of His final execution of judgement, they are destroyed. The camp is not outside the city... It is the city.

 

[ewq1938]

KJV Revelation 20:9
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

This passage is speaking of the literal city, the new Jerusalem that descends out of heaven at the end on the millennium, and which is populated by the redeemed.

No, this is old Jerusalem. NJ doesn't come down until after the GWTJ is over, Rev 21 which is when the NHNE have replaced the old Earth found in Rev 20.

Satan, who until this time was some with his demons, now has the opportunity to gather together an army of resurrected wicked from all over the earth, convincing them that taking the city is their only hope of survival.

The people he gathers are not resurrected because they haven't died yet. They die outside of Jerusalem and it's their first time to die. They are resurrected after this for judgment at the GWTJ:


Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

After God reveals to everyone the justice of His final execution of judgement, they are destroyed. The camp is not outside the city... It is the city.

Not a huge importance but this camp is a separate and temporary place of dwelling which is why it's mentioned separately from the city.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

G3925
παρεμβολή
parembolē
par-em-bol-ay'
From a compound of G3844 and G1685; a throwing in beside (juxtaposition), that is, (specifically) battle array, encampment or barracks (tower Antonia): - army, camp, castle.
Total KJV occurrences: 10

 

[Always Believing]

Paul's "man of sin" is Satan.

Although Satan will no doubt enter in his heart as judas, a man is a man. Satan is never called a man.

Paul calls Satan the lawless one. Paul never calls Satan a dragon. John did though.

You're still reading Satan into it. He is the son of perdition, which is what Jesus called Judas in John 17.

That Wicked is the image coming to life.

This could be a good point. Although he is still that wicked lawless whose coming is after the working of Satan, not Satan himself. That working of Satan could be after Satan enters him to do his work even as Judas. That could be when he becomes that Wicked image come to life. He's still a man but such a man that it might as well be Satan in the flesh.

Remember it's all about deceiving people. He will appear to come as a man with God in him, just like Jesus Christ.

Paul is not saying there has to be a seven year period of a human ruler called the AC before the Second Coming can happen. That is bad eschatology.

I think the same way.

Satan is a beast but a specific beast, a dragon. John's use of beast is a more generic "in passing" thought. There is not one single beast throughout the book. There are several generic beasts referenced. Sometimes referring to Satan, sometimes referring to humanity. Only context can show when and how.

At this point I think we both have a point. He will be a man, but there will be a point where Satan enters into him to become a son of perdition as Judas but only worse and so he is capitalized as that Wicked. When his image if made alive he will certainly be more devil than man. The Bible talks of being as brute beasts without feeling.

 

[ewq1938]

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[Jay Ross]

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The Isaiah verses above identify that there is a spiritual element to the antichrist that cannot be swept under the mat so to speak. The Antichrist is also a fallen wicked rebelling heavenly host, i.e., a fallen angel, that is identified in the OT as the Little Horn and as the False Prophet in the NT where the descriptions for the Little Horn and the False Prophet match each other.

The Little Horn is the "beast" that influences people to trample God Sanctuary and God's earthly Hosts over a period of time that spans 2,300 years. In Daniel 7:25 the Little Horn seeks to change the times and the law. This can only be done by entering into a covenant by the Little Horn/False Prophet with many people towards the very end of the Seventh Age during the Little While Period. During the Little While period there will be no need for the rebelling fallen Angels to hide themselves from being seen by mankind as the winds of heaven, i.e., spiritual angels.

In Rev 13, the False Prophet demands in his own right that people begin to worship the Beast, and as such he is no longer hiding behind the form of a person who is doing his bidding.

It is very difficult to move our understanding away from the realm of the lies that Satan and his fellow angels have woven for mankind to accept as "the truth" the lies that they have told brought to the forefront in the minds of many people and accept the actual truth that God has been prophetically telling us from the beginning of time.

There is a need for change, and this is as good a time as possible, for God's truth to come to mind such that we begin to believe it beyond doubt.

Shalom

 

[Gottservant]

The challenge we face as a faith, is remembering Jesus more, not less.

Our thoughts about the anti-Christ ought to reflect that calling.

Those that turn away from the Holy Spirit, will die - the anti-Christ will do that perpetually.

Thus the anti-Christ will return to dust and only return as an enemy at Armageddon (where the Lord will slay him with the Word of His Mouth).

Even if the anti-Christ struggles with humanity to the end of time, he will be told his only place is in the Lake of Fire - because he does not cease to show God contempt, for all His forebearance.