Another Premillennial absurdity

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Ronald David Bruno

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To All Amillennialists,

Why don't you all make a promise to God, that you will not have anything to do with the Millennial Kingdom _ on Earth _ literally ruled by Jesus _ after the Great Tribulation, which to you is an absurdity!
Put a star next to your name ( or add your name to the list) as an acknowledgement and covenant with God. Amen

@WPM
@Spiritual Israelite
@rwb
@Truth7t7
@jeffweeder
@MatthewG
@covenantee
@CadyandZoe
@Peterlag
@Marty fox
@Christian Gedge
@GEN2REV
@quietthinker
@Phoneman777

Update: Seems like only 1 brave person is willing to forfeit something that they don't believe will exist.
Actually this will also be a way out of ever burdening yourslef with the argument -- a win win for both sides!
Come on, back up what you believe.
 
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Truth7t7

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To All Amillennialists,

Why don't you all make a promise to God, that you will not have anything to do with the Millennial Kingdom _ on Earth _ literally ruled by Jesus _ after the Great Tribulation, which to you is an absurdity!
Put a check next to your name as an acknowledgement and covenant with God. Amen

WPM
SPIRITUAL Israelite
rwb
Truth7t7
jeffweeder
MatthewG
Covenantee
CadyandZoe
Peterlag
Marty fox
Christian Gedge
GEN2REV
quietthinker
Phoneman777
Jesus Christ warned me about your false teaching (Big Check, Truth7t7)

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 
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robert derrick

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WPM is 100% correct, the bondage of "Corruption" is lifted at the second coming, when mortal turns into immortal

If you think corruption is gone, try looking at yourself 30 years ago, and see if that Ole body isn't in corruption and decay, smiles!

Jesus Is The Lord
Partially correct.

In Christ Jesus, our souls are delivered from the spiritual corruption of lust in the world.

If you are ignorant of that, then you need to repent.

Our natural bodies, not the trees and hills of earth, nor the earth itself, will only be delivered from mortal corruption, with our bodily resurrection to meet Him at His return.

The resurrected saints will then rule with Him in His earthly reign over all the earth.

All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The natural corruption of this earth and heaven, both natural celestial stars and terrestrial earth, will never be delivered into spiritual immortality, but burnt and sent fleeing from His face.

The heaven and earth will never be a spiritual body, as with God and the Man Christ Jesus, as well as the spiritual beings of angels and resurrected saints.

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

The suffering is not of the trees, but of the natural bodies of men and women, that wait on the Lord.

For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

The creature of our natural flesh waits for the resurrected of the dead.

For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

We make our natural bodies to be subject to the vanity of sin, not to the naturalness of mortality.

Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

The trees will not be delivered into the glorious liberty of the sons of God, but our bodies shall be.

For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Trees do not groan for God. Only men that love Him and wait for Him to deliver us from the mortality of our natural bodies.

And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

They are not trees that we also grown for God with. I don't grown with nor hug trees in sympathy.

The natural man has no clue about the Scriptural truth of God, and the spiritual things of man alone on earth.

Trees have so spirits, nor moon nor stars: pagan spiritism is not true.


The natural earth and stars will not be resurrected into immortality celestial and terrestrial bodies, like the natural bodies of the saints.

Neither this heaven is a person with a soul and spirit, nor will the new heaven and earth be a resurrected one made anew.

To think this stuff has to be taught to Christians, professing to read and know the first principles of Scripture of God.

 

robert derrick

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To All Amillennialists,

Why don't you all make a promise to God, that you will not have anything to do with the Millennial Kingdom _ on Earth _ literally ruled by Jesus _ after the Great Tribulation, which to you is an absurdity!
Put a check next to your name as an acknowledgement and covenant with God. Amen

WPM
SPIRITUAL Israelite
rwb
Truth7t7
jeffweeder
MatthewG
Covenantee
CadyandZoe
Peterlag
Marty fox
Christian Gedge
GEN2REV
quietthinker
Phoneman777
This is not a unfair question.

It's like calling upon created christers, to say they will never have anything to do with Jesus Christ as Lord and God.
 

rwb

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To All Amillennialists,

Why don't you all make a promise to God, that you will not have anything to do with the Millennial Kingdom _ on Earth _ literally ruled by Jesus _ after the Great Tribulation, which to you is an absurdity!
Put a check next to your name as an acknowledgement and covenant with God. Amen

WPM
SPIRITUAL Israelite
rwb
Truth7t7
jeffweeder
MatthewG
Covenantee
CadyandZoe
Peterlag
Marty fox
Christian Gedge
GEN2REV
quietthinker
Phoneman777

Ron, this exposes the difficulty Amill is up against when discussing eschatology with Premillennialists. Most (at least most of those I know) embracing the doctrine of Amill have come from Premillennialism. So, we understand the doctrine of millennialism quite well. Premillennialists on the other hand are really not very familiar with Amillennialism, even though, like you, see themselves as experts of Amill doctrine. If you understood Amillennialism you would not think that we deny the thousand years John writes in Rev 20. Amillennialism does not deny the thousand years of time found in Rev 20. Amillennialism acknowledges this TIME but understand how John uses a thousand years to symbolize TIME from the first advent of Christ until the seventh angel begins to sound that TIME, for which a thousand years equates to, shall be no more.

If Premillennialists are truly interested in discussing the differences between the doctrine of Premill and Amill why don't you Premillennialists first make a promise to God that you will not try to prove Amillennialism is in error until you have a thorough understanding of exactly what Amillennialism doctrine teaches. Coming from Premillennialism I can assure you that the doctrine taught in Amillennialism will not force contradiction into the Word of God as Premillennialism does.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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Ron, this exposes the difficulty Amill is up against when discussing eschatology with Premillennialists. Most (at least most of those I know) embracing the doctrine of Amill have come from Premillennialism. So, we understand the doctrine of millennialism quite well. Premillennialists on the other hand are really not very familiar with Amillennialism, even though, like you, see themselves as experts of Amill doctrine. If you understood Amillennialism you would not think that we deny the thousand years John writes in Rev 20. Amillennialism does not deny the thousand years of time found in Rev 20. Amillennialism acknowledges this TIME but understand how John uses a thousand years to symbolize TIME from the first advent of Christ until the seventh angel begins to sound that TIME, for which a thousand years equates to, shall be no more.

If Premillennialists are truly interested in discussing the differences between the doctrine of Premill and Amill why don't you Premillennialists first make a promise to God that you will not try to prove Amillennialism is in error until you have a thorough understanding of exactly what Amillennialism doctrine teaches. Coming from Premillennialism I can assure you that the doctrine taught in Amillennialism will not force contradiction into the Word of God as Premillennialism does.
Check next to your name or not?
 

jeffweeder

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To All Amillennialists,

Why don't you all make a promise to God, that you will not have anything to do with the Millennial Kingdom _ on Earth _ literally ruled by Jesus _ after the Great Tribulation, which to you is an absurdity!
No need for us to do that as Jesus has already promised us that it will never happen. All one has to do is believe what he said will happen at his own coming.
The last time I looked the GT would be a time never to be repeated. God shortened this time period for the sake of the elect, just as in Noah's day nobody but the elect would survive what man was bringing upon himself. God in his longsuffering and patience waited until the ark was finished, just as today the Gospel goes to the whole world before the END comes.

It would be more appropriate for premills to put a check next to their name that they believe in second chances and Jesus was wrong to say that we MUST be ready for his second appearing, lest we perish the last day he comes to raise the elect that day.

Paul knew this all too well when he penned 2Thess 1 and 2.


5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering.

6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire,

8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day [that is, glorified through the changed lives of those who have accepted Him as Savior and have been set apart for His purpose], and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed and trusted [and confirmed in your lives].



13 But we should and are [morally] obligated [as debtors] always to give thanks to God for you, believers beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through the sanctifying work of the Spirit [that sets you apart for God’s purpose] and by your faith in the truth [of God’s word that leads you to spiritual maturity]. 14 It was to this end that He called you through our gospel [the good news of Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection], so that you may obtain and share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold [tightly] to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
 
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Timtofly

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Amillennialism acknowledges this TIME but understand how John uses a thousand years to symbolize TIME from the first advent of Christ until the seventh angel begins to sound that TIME, for which a thousand years equates to, shall be no more.
We comprehend that Amil think John is using a thousand years to symbolize time. That would be the only reason we also point out that claim is wrong.

How can the thousand years in Revelation 20 just start in Revelation 20, but yet you claim ends in Revelation 10? You say easy, we accept a human notion that time starts over again in Revelation 20.

The point is the time that stops in Revelation 10 is not a phenomenon that started at the Cross. Here, let me show you:

"That there should be time no longer: the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

What is the mystery? Amil would say the Cross is this mystery, and it was finished at the Cross. But then erroneously claim it was finished at the 7th Trumpet.

Amil have the Cross and time over as the Cross, but then say it also started at the Cross. So this time symbolized by John in Revelation 20 is just 1 second when Jesus declared it is finished. To Amil it started at the Cross and finished at the Cross. So when exactly did this time start?

Amil claim Daniel's 70 weeks ended at the Cross. So if time stopped at the Cross and at the 7th Trumpet can it be that the start was at the start of Daniel's 70 weeks? So the start of John's symbolic 1,000 years that ended in Revelation 10 at the 7th Trumpet did not start at the Cross but started 490 years prior to the Cross. And literally did not end at the Cross, as it was put on hold until the 7th Trumpet sounds. So Amil contradict their own point with a logical impossibility, the one Second on the Cross, or the irrefutable point this time that ended started 490 years before the Cross even happened. They refute their own time as being the time between the first and second coming if they use Revelation 10 to prove their point. The time they declare is up at the 7th Trumpet is the time they also declare is up at the Cross.

The other mystery declared in the NT is the one Paul declared, as the death passed on by Adam which was rectified by Jesus, also on the Cross, with Jesus declaring it is finished. Adam brought sin into the world, and the punishment of death. That is the other time that is up at the 7th Trumpet. Adam's dead corruptible flesh is finished in Revelation 10. So time being up is not time itself, that Amil literally conflate with a symbolization of Revelation 20. Those 1,000 years in Revelation 20, have literally nothing to do with the time up at all in Revelation 10. In fact those 1,000 years are just starting, when time is declared up for Adam's dead corruptible flesh, and Daniel's 70 weeks. Certainly Amil don't claim that this time in Revelation 20 started when Adam disobeyed God, yet most assuredly, Adam's punishment is declared up at the 7th Trumpet. It was declared over in part at the Cross.

Amil cannot say Revelation 10 means time is up for creation. Because the mystery of God that should be finished, as He hath declared to his servants the prophets, is not time, itself, but the promise of the Cross, and what the Cross finished. That finish that was placed on hold for the fulness of the Gentiles to come in, until the Second Coming.

Amil don't even apply that as the time up. Amil claim creation itself is finished. They then want to change the 1,000 years and declare it the fulness of the Gentiles. I would agree that even time is up for the fulness of the Gentiles. Amil may even try to argue that the fulness of the Gentiles was the mystery of the prophets. The fulness of the Gentiles was a mystery, but Paul called it the stumbling of Israel, or even the fall of Israel. But this was only temporary. The NT did not rule Israel was over in the first century. They were only blinded in part until the return of their King. Israel was not even restored in the first century. In fact by the end of the first century Israel was completely decimated, and never brought back. Adam was not restored. We continue to live in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. That is why time was not up at the Cross, but placed on hold for the 7th Trumpet.

Time being no more in Revelation 10, can not be attributed to the end of the 1,000 years as described in Revelation 20:11

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."

Nor the end of the 1,000 years, Revelation 20:7

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,"

Neither of these descriptions match this declaration: Revelation 10:5-7

5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Satan being loosed is not the point of Revelation 10. Neither is Jesus giving creation back to God, the point of Revelation 10.

Amil keep declaring they don't deny a future 1,000 years. They only attempt to remake this time into a different period of time. One that was not even future while the NT was being written. It had already started. But Revelation 10 is not declaring this 1,000 years over, nor that creation itself is over. Neither are the mystery that the prophets wrote about. If that were the case then creation should have ended at the Cross. That is when Jesus declared time was finished. At least the time mentioned in Revelation 10. Even Paul could see that was placed on hold, not for a return, a second coming. It was for the fulness of the Gentiles. This gospel would be spread out and be a blessing all over the earth, not for the benefit of Israel. Israel passed up the leadership role.

The fulness of the Gentiles was not even preparation for the Millennial reign. Nor can it be the Millennial reign mentioned in Revelation 20. We are still in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The Millennium is free from natural death. These people literally live on earth the whole 1,000 years. The same humans that start out are still the same camp of the saints that is there 1,000 years later. There is nothing in the text to imply any other interpretation.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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No need for us to do that as Jesus has already promised us that it will never happen.
Jesus gave us specific details in Rev. 20, which is His promise, that you distort.
The reason why few will a put a check next to their name is because you fear that if we are correct, you would be forfeiting part of your inheritance.
The last time I looked the GT would be a time never to be repeated. God shortened this time period for the sake of the elect ...
Yes, and so the GT ( 3 1/2 year period) devastates the world and kills most of the inhabitants. But His 7 Bowls of wrath comes towards the end of this time period - could be only 40 days? - so shortened indeed.
10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day [that is, glorified through the changed lives of those who have accepted Him as Savior and have been set apart for His purpose], and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed and trusted [and confirmed in your lives].
Your braketed commentary is wrong.
When He comes, we will be translated, changed into new eternal GLORIFIED BODIES, like His and we will also see His GLORY as well. And for this, thanks is given to the Thessalonians for believing the gospel.
This scripture does not disprove, nor does any, the Millennial Kingdom coming. One word in it describes what follows the Great Tribulation, "rest". ( see 2 Thes. 1: 7)
 

Truth7t7

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Jesus gave us specific details in Rev. 20, which is His promise, that you distort.
The reason why few will a put a check next to their name is because you fear that if we are correct, you would be forfeiting part of your inheritance.

Yes, and so the GT ( 3 1/2 year period) devastates the world and kills most of the inhabitants. But His 7 Bowls of wrath comes towards the end of this time period - could be only 40 days? - so shortened indeed.

Your braketed commentary is wrong.
When He comes, we will be translated, changed into new eternal GLORIFIED BODIES, like His and we will also see His GLORY as well. And for this, thanks is given to the Thessalonians for believing the gospel.
This scripture does not disprove, nor does any, the Millennial Kingdom coming. One word in it describes what follows the Great Tribulation, "rest". ( see 2 Thes. 1: 7)

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived


Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

robert derrick

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Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
More mantra.

If you have something new for me to respond to, I'll be glad to.

Or if you ever have a response with correction to my words, and what is taught by them.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)
That is true.
It's a coming physical Millennial Kingdom. We are spiritually in Christ, in the Kingdom of Heaven.
We pray for "thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven".
 
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rwb

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The reason why few will a put a check next to their name is because you fear that if we are correct, you would be forfeiting part of your inheritance.

The reason those who believe the doctrine of Amillennialism presents biblical truth refuse to play along with you is because you have not honestly portrayed our doctrine. We all know why! You have no understanding of Amillennialism! The only one forfeiting anything in this thread is you! You forfeit all credibility regarding your understanding of biblical doctrine. Because you argue from ignorance and not from knowledge.
 

rwb

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That is true.
It's a coming physical Millennial Kingdom. We are spiritually in Christ, in the Kingdom of Heaven.
We pray for "thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven".

I see you've added your spin to Scripture once more. Christ is not telling His disciples to pray His Kingdom would come on earth. If He were He would not say "My Kingdom is not of this world". (Jo 18:36) There you go again, forcing contradiction into the Word of God.

Christ teaches His disciples to pray "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

Matthew 6:9-13 (KJV) After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

It is because His Kingdom has already come that Christ tells us to submit to His will on the earth. Because submitting to His will on earth is a sign that by faith in Him, we have entered His Kingdom through His Spirit in us.
 

jeffweeder

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Jesus gave us specific details in Rev. 20, which is His promise, that you distort.
Rev 20 is Jn 5 all over again. You distort both.
Yes, and so the GT ( 3 1/2 year period) devastates the world and kills most of the inhabitants.
Lol. Read the text again please. ALL, not most will perish. Deal with it.
Your braketed commentary is wrong.
When He comes, we will be translated, changed into new eternal GLORIFIED BODIES, like His and we will also see His GLORY as well. And for this, thanks is given to the Thessalonians for believing the gospel.
That is not my bracketed commentary. It is the Amplified version as you obviously need help in grasping what is actually being said.
How you can miss the whole thrust of this chapter is beyond belief.
First and foremost, in that passage the Lord is appearing in vengeance to comprehensively deal with those who persecute his followers....on the SAME day he glorifies us. You need to deal with this fact also.

I post an alternative rending of the passage from the American NASB...,

5 This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you indeed are suffering. 6 For after all it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us, when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God, and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

9 These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified among His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—because our testimony to you was believed.






 

WPM

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Partially correct.

In Christ Jesus, our souls are delivered from the spiritual corruption of lust in the world.

If you are ignorant of that, then you need to repent.

Our natural bodies, not the trees and hills of earth, nor the earth itself, will only be delivered from mortal corruption, with our bodily resurrection to meet Him at His return.

The resurrected saints will then rule with Him in His earthly reign over all the earth.

All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The natural corruption of this earth and heaven, both natural celestial stars and terrestrial earth, will never be delivered into spiritual immortality, but burnt and sent fleeing from His face.

The heaven and earth will never be a spiritual body, as with God and the Man Christ Jesus, as well as the spiritual beings of angels and resurrected saints.

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

The suffering is not of the trees, but of the natural bodies of men and women, that wait on the Lord.

For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

The creature of our natural flesh waits for the resurrected of the dead.

For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

We make our natural bodies to be subject to the vanity of sin, not to the naturalness of mortality.

Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

The trees will not be delivered into the glorious liberty of the sons of God, but our bodies shall be.

For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Trees do not groan for God. Only men that love Him and wait for Him to deliver us from the mortality of our natural bodies.

And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

They are not trees that we also grown for God with. I don't grown with nor hug trees in sympathy.

The natural man has no clue about the Scriptural truth of God, and the spiritual things of man alone on earth.

Trees have so spirits, nor moon nor stars: pagan spiritism is not true.


The natural earth and stars will not be resurrected into immortality celestial and terrestrial bodies, like the natural bodies of the saints.

Neither this heaven is a person with a soul and spirit, nor will the new heaven and earth be a resurrected one made anew.

To think this stuff has to be taught to Christians, professing to read and know the first principles of Scripture of God.

Your imaginary future millennium is blighted with all the same plagues of the bondage of corruption as our day. That is because Revelation 20 refers to the here-and-now. Your millennium is a massive bust. It promises much but provides little. That is because it will never happen. It is a figment of your imagination.
 

WPM

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Jesus gave us specific details in Rev. 20, which is His promise, that you distort.
The reason why few will a put a check next to their name is because you fear that if we are correct, you would be forfeiting part of your inheritance.

Yes, and so the GT ( 3 1/2 year period) devastates the world and kills most of the inhabitants. But His 7 Bowls of wrath comes towards the end of this time period - could be only 40 days? - so shortened indeed.

Your braketed commentary is wrong.
When He comes, we will be translated, changed into new eternal GLORIFIED BODIES, like His and we will also see His GLORY as well. And for this, thanks is given to the Thessalonians for believing the gospel.
This scripture does not disprove, nor does any, the Millennial Kingdom coming. One word in it describes what follows the Great Tribulation, "rest". ( see 2 Thes. 1: 7)

You are full of imaginations. The earth Amils anticipate is starkly different from the Premil version that is full of the bondage of corruption and ultimately overrun by the wicked in the end. The Amil age is glorious perfect and eternal.
 

jeffweeder

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You are full of imaginations. The earth Amils anticipate is starkly different from the Premil version that is full of the bondage of corruption and ultimately overrun by the wicked in the end. The Amil age is glorious perfect and eternal.
Amen. that is why it is referred to as the Blessed Hope by the NT. The blessed hope is not something temporary and full of anxiety over a thousand ridiculous years.
At the end of the day it makes no difference to the majority that will perish the last day when he appears in the glory of his Father.


Matt 16
24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me. 25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

26 For what good will it do a person if he gains the whole world, but forfeits his soul? Or what will a person give in exchange for his soul? 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every person according to his deeds.

28 “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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The Amil age is glorious perfect and eternal.
Your phrase "The Amil age is ..." is an oxymoron. You are against, in disbelief of a Millennial age, that you say won't exist, yet you say it is glorious, perfect an eternal. You are confused.
An age has a beginning and an ending. Eternity has no age.
 

WPM

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Your phrase "The Amil age is ..." is an oxymoron. You are against, in disbelief of a Millennial age, that you say won't exist, yet you say it is glorious, perfect an eternal. You are confused.
An age has a beginning and an ending. Eternity has no age.

The eternal state is described as an age by Christ and the NT writers. Your fight is therefore with them, not just Amils. In that age to come there is no more death or marriage - thus showing its glorified character. The age you invent will never happen. It is based on a mistaken reading of Rev 19-20. Rev 19 is the end of the world. Revelation 20 takes us back to Christ's victory over sin and death at the first resurrection and depicts the enlightenment of the Gentiles. It finishes with the general resurrection/judgment. Revelation is full of recaps.