Last day prophecies fulfilled

[ThePuffyBlob]

I didn't say you were lying. Are you?

There's a difference with one who makes excuses for not having believed by Faith. If those are lying, it is to themselves, and that is exactly the bottleneck that needs overcoming (James 1:5-8).

it's like another way of saying I am lying since you said that I obviously just making use of these excuses

 

[Davy]

it's like another way of saying I am lying since you said that I obviously just making use of these excuses

Is there ANY OTHER explanation for one who refuses... to believe on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ? The Romans 1 Scripture that has already been shown proves... what I am saying.

Rom 1:17-32
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, 'The just shall live by faith.'

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, Who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
KJV

 

[Davy]

it's like another way of saying I am lying since you said that I obviously just making use of these excuses

And did you not know that even the field of physical science has even inadvertently proven the existence of God and His creation?

Heb 11:3
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV

That last phrase in red is a law of physics taught to all Physics students. It's that material matter can neither be created nor destroyed, but only changes its state (solid, liquid, vapor, gas).

What that law further reveals is that something 'outside' the realm of material matter had to be its creator. That means outside the realm of the known physical universe, for it all is made of up of material matter. And all this is taken for granted based on that law of physics.

If you haven't understood that yet, it means this material universe we live in originated FROM A DIFFERENT TYPE OF REALM THAN MATERIAL MATTER.

God's Word points to only 2 Realms of existence, this earthly dimension we live in, and the heavenly dimension where God's Abode is. Apostle John said "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24). The verse above is declaring that material matter was created by The Word of God, pointing to having been created from the Spirit Realm.

Atheists spend most of their time rejecting the existence of any other realm of existence than this material matter realm. Doing that does not work though, because just the fact that material matter exists, and it can neither create itself nor destroy itself is proof of another realm of existence that is NOT... material matter.

 

[Robert Gwin]

There are two points that should be clarified:

1) You say "his presence" and "not his coming", which is the same as saying "Yes, but No." That is the error of many who do not acknowledge His presence as His coming--which He said would occur in this way: "I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me" with those who hear Him knocking and open the door. The two words then (His "presence" and "coming") are the same in context, not different.​

​

2) So, no, most humans are not gone, but rather His coming into us who open the door when He knocks is what it is to be born [again] of the spirit of God...that "it is not we who live, but Christ who lives in us." This is why Paul said, "but each one in his own order."​

parousiva Parousia (par-oo-see'-ah); Word Origin: Greek, Noun Feminine, Strong #: 3952 presence the coming, arrival, advent the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God Do not forget Scott, that started a time period that would not exceed a generations life span. His coming ends that period. I gave you all the relevant scriptures to see the difference. Perhaps you can review them again sir.

 

[Davy]

Uh OH for once we agree on much!

Yes the Matthew protion of Jesus' Olivet discourse deals more with future events, while Luke deals more with teh fate of the Apostles and the Judgment of Jerusalem because Israel as a nation committed the unpardonable sin. That judgment was rendered in 66-70 A D by the Roman legions.

The Luke 21:6-23 are for the very END of this world, not 70 A.D.

Luke 21:20-22
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
KJV

That "desolation" being spoken of is linked to the "abomination of desolation" idol to be setup in Jerusalem by the coming pseudo-Christ that will claim to be God. It is linked to Matthew 24:15-18 and Mark 13:14-18. That is when Jesus warned in those other Olivet discourse Chapters for those in Judea at the END of this world to flee that area because of the pseudo-Christ setting up false idol worship there. So that is NOT 70 A.D., but for the very end of this world.

That "days of vengeance" is about the final 7th Trumpet, 6th Seal, and 7th Vial when God's cup of Wrath is poured out upon the wicked and deceived on earth, ending this present world on the "day of the Lord", all of man's works being then burned off the earth. So those verses are covering from the time of the "great tribulation" to the time of the last day with God ending this present world time.

Luke 21:24
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
KJV

That above verse IS... about the fall of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 A.D. and was when the majority of Jews there were removed and scattered, and the 2nd temple and Jerusalem destroyed. It is even a link to Revelation 11:1-2 about the very END also though...

Rev 11:1-2
11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
KJV

That above timing is for the very END of this world, during the "great tribulation". It is 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe timing. It is when a 3rd Jewish temple will be built in today's Jerusalem for the coming false Messiah to sit in and, set up an idol image of himself like the king of Babylon did, and play God. That "forty and two months" is the same timing of Rev.13 that the "dragon" (Satan) is given to have power over all nations and peoples for the end.

The not one stone atop another prophecy Jesus gave was never completed. Today the huge stones of the Western Wall are still standing there at the Temple Mount. Thusly, the destruction by the Romans in 70 A.D. serves only as a blueprint for the very end of this world.

 

[ScottA]

parousiva Parousia (par-oo-see'-ah); Word Origin: Greek, Noun Feminine, Strong #: 3952 presence the coming, arrival, advent the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God Do not forget Scott, that started a time period that would not exceed a generations life span. His coming ends that period. I gave you all the relevant scriptures to see the difference. Perhaps you can review them again sir.

The error here comes from expecting a "visible return" as being visible to the world--which is not biblical. "Every eye shall see" does not speak of a worldly event, as Christ said, "the world sees me no more." It speaks rather of everyone being raised up "some to eternal life, and some to eternal damnation." Which, again, was clarified by Paul saying that He comes (as the world would consider it) "but each one in his own order" rather than one mass, worldly, future event.

In other words, if what is written is interpreted or understood as all only being events of this world in the timely terms of this world, the interpretation is grossly wrong and in error--for the events are not of this world, but of God. Therefore, if you substantiate your beliefs merely by applying the scriptures to fit the times of this world...it means only illusion. Take it from Jesus (as He stopped Peter), to think as men are prone to think--is of Satan. Better then, to think from the perspective of God which is without times, by "the renewing of your mind."

 

[dad]

The only direct prophecy that has been fulfilled is Israel being called back to her land to be prepared to pass under the rod of Gods Judgment. That began in 1948.

But with that many prophecies or declarations were fulfilled. The shekel restored, Hebrew restored. A nation born in a day!

He calls them to the land after He returns. They are not holy now. As for the nation in a day thing the context is

Isaiah 66:5




Hear the word of the Lord , ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the Lord be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.

Isaiah 66:6




A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

He deals with His enemies at the end of the tribulation. Not in 1948


Isaiah 66:8




Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

We should all know when that time of travail is. It certainly was not 1948

Isaiah 66:12




For thus saith the Lord , Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.

That is future...not past.

It is clear when Isa 66 is is about

Isaiah 66:15




For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.


NOT 1948.

 

[Robert Gwin]

The error here comes from expecting a "visible return" as being visible to the world--which is not biblical. "Every eye shall see" does not speak of a worldly event, as Christ said, "the world sees me no more." It speaks rather of everyone being raised up "some to eternal life, and some to eternal damnation." Which, again, was clarified by Paul saying that He comes (as the world would consider it) "but each one in his own order" rather than one mass, worldly, future event.

In other words, if what is written is interpreted or understood as all only being events of this world in the timely terms of this world, the interpretation is grossly wrong and in error--for the events are not of this world, but of God. Therefore, if you substantiate your beliefs merely by applying the scriptures to fit the times of this world...it means only illusion. Take it from Jesus (as He stopped Peter), to think as men are prone to think--is of Satan. Better then, to think from the perspective of God which is without times, by "the renewing of your mind."

We do not believe everyone will be resurrected at one time either Scott. No doubt that would lead to chaos. Like I stated, people may not see him literally, but then again they might, but they will know beyond any doubt who is leading the war sir, which is most likely what is meant by every eye will see him. Time alone will reveal the way of his return, we know that when he does the remainder of the anointed will meet him in the air, and that he will remove those who have been judged as goats. 1 Thes 4:17; 2 Thes 1:6-9

 

[Ronald Nolette]

He calls them to the land after He returns. They are not holy now. As for the nation in a day thing the context is

This is incorrect. He has been calling them back to the land to purge out the unbelievers, Both Isaiah and Ezekiel directly address this. So they are called back as unbelievers.

EZ. 20:

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

He calls them to the land after He returns. They are not holy now. As for the nation in a day thing the context is

Isaiah 66:5




Hear the word of the Lord , ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the Lord be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.

Isaiah 66:6




A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

He deals with His enemies at the end of the tribulation. Not in 1948


Isaiah 66:8




Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

We should all know when that time of travail is. It certainly was not 1948

Isaiah 66:12




For thus saith the Lord , Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.

That is future...not past.

It is clear when Isa 66 is is about

Isaiah 66:15




For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.


NOT 1948.

Nearly all these verses refer to His physical return to earth. He goes to Petra to fight for them against the Antichrist. Marches them to Jerusalem, the nation mourns and cleanses the temple , Jesus sets up the judgment of the peoples, and then the millenial kingdom starts.

But make no mistake, May 14, 1948 began the fulfilment of the return of Israel to her land. To be judged and purged by god for the Second coming but it is prophecy.

 

[dad]

This is incorrect. He has been calling them back to the land to purge out the unbelievers, Both Isaiah and Ezekiel directly address this. So they are called back as unbelievers.

EZ. 20:

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

He is not ruling over modern Israel. They are mostly not all that interested in Him today.

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

You seem to be under the impression Good is speaking to Israel face to face today??


36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

It is obvious that rebels are not only allowed but the majority in Israel now.

Nearly all these verses refer to His physical return to earth. He goes to Petra to fight for them against the Antichrist. Marches them to Jerusalem, the nation mourns and cleanses the temple , Jesus sets up the judgment of the peoples, and then the millenial kingdom starts.

But make no mistake, May 14, 1948 began the fulfilment of the return of Israel to her land. To be judged and purged by god for the Second coming but it is prophecy.

Yes, God is trying to reach His people today. That is not what Isa 66 and the verses you cited talk about.

 

[ScottA]

We do not believe everyone will be resurrected at one time either Scott. No doubt that would lead to chaos. Like I stated, people may not see him literally, but then again they might, but they will know beyond any doubt who is leading the war sir, which is most likely what is meant by every eye will see him. Time alone will reveal the way of his return, we know that when he does the remainder of the anointed will meet him in the air, and that he will remove those who have been judged as goats. 1 Thes 4:17; 2 Thes 1:6-9

You keep reverting back to the thinking of men... It is not "time" that reveals the things of God, but the Spirit. To the contrary, what "time" reveals, is "the man of sin"...who also comes "but each one in his own order."

 

[Robert Gwin]

You keep reverting back to the thinking of men... It is not "time" that reveals the things of God, but the Spirit. To the contrary, what "time" reveals, is "the man of sin"...who also comes "but each one in his own order."

Actually sir, Jehovah reveals things progressively Dan 12:4; Pro 4:18 At this point in time we have disagreed on some points, and like I stated one of us might be correct, but certainly both of us is not. Only time will reveal if either of us were correct in our understanding. Isn't any sense in arguing the point, as it is simply a fact Scott.

 

[ScottA]

Actually sir, Jehovah reveals things progressively Dan 12:4; Pro 4:18 At this point in time we have disagreed on some points, and like I stated one of us might be correct, but certainly both of us is not. Only time will reveal if either of us were correct in our understanding. Isn't any sense in arguing the point, as it is simply a fact Scott.

Don't misunderstand, I am not arguing, but revealing.

Also, what "actually" is, is of God and of the kingdom, while the times of this world are "actually" not. You are speaking of revelations ("revealing") made to the world--and they are not the same. "For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?" and the kingdom "is not of this world." Such things regarding the times of this world are limited to revelation.

And this is that time of revealing which was to come.​

But the revelations that you have believed do not reconcile all the scriptures, or you would not have believed that the Son of Man comes as expected. Matthew 24:44

 

[Robert Gwin]

Don't misunderstand, I am not arguing, but revealing.

Also, what "actually" is, is of God and of the kingdom, while the times of this world are "actually" not. You are speaking of revelations ("revealing") made to the world--and they are not the same. "For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?" and the kingdom "is not of this world." Such things regarding the times of this world are limited to revelation.

And this is that time of revealing which was to come.​

But the revelations that you have believed do not reconcile all the scriptures, or you would not have believed that the Son of Man comes as expected. Matthew 24:44

I don't disagree with any of this Scott. It looks like to me by your last comment, that you think Jesus' coming is yet future as do I. He will come to save the elect from extinction verse 22 so that shows us that it is yet future, but we see that we have started his presence v3 and have entered into the last days which will not exceed a generation v32-34

I was hesitant to use the word arguing I guess I should have used discussing, I thought of debating but felt it might be taken worse than arguing. Sometimes I am at a loss for words Scott. We both were presenting our opinions on the subject, which fits all those terms, but I think we were trying to express them in a positive way, don't you sir?

 

[ScottA]

I don't disagree with any of this Scott. It looks like to me by your last comment, that you think Jesus' coming is yet future as do I. He will come to save the elect from extinction verse 22 so that shows us that it is yet future, but we see that we have started his presence v3 and have entered into the last days which will not exceed a generation v32-34

I was hesitant to use the word arguing I guess I should have used discussing, I thought of debating but felt it might be taken worse than arguing. Sometimes I am at a loss for words Scott. We both were presenting our opinions on the subject, which fits all those terms, but I think we were trying to express them in a positive way, don't you sir?

No, Jesus does not return in the future except to those to whom He comes in the future ("but each one in his own order"). His return began at Pentecost and with the first one who heard Him knocking at the door and opened to Him 2,000 years ago. To the contrary, Christ said He would not return in the future as most "expect"--"for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect."

Positive, Yes. But, again, those who discuss "opinions" may argue, but those who know the truth do not. I am not discussing opinion, but sharing what I know to be true with one who I hope will hear it.

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[Robert Gwin]

No, Jesus does not return in the future except to those to whom He comes in the future ("but each one in his own order"). His return began at Pentecost and with the first one who heard Him knocking at the door and opened to Him 2,000 years ago. To the contrary, Christ said He would not return in the future as most "expect"--"for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect."

Positive, Yes. But, again, those who discuss "opinions" may argue, but those who know the truth do not. I am not discussing opinion, but sharing what I know to be true with one who I hope will hear it.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Are you familiar with 1 Thes 4:16,17 and 2 Thes 1:6-9 Scott? Do you agree that is yet future events?

 

[ScottA]

Are you familiar with 1 Thes 4:16,17 and 2 Thes 1:6-9 Scott? Do you agree that is yet future events?

The answer is the same--these things all come "but each one in his own order." Meaning, that it is future for some, but past for many who have come and gone already, as it is all done in the one event "with Christ", making the event pre-Christ for many, and post-Christ for many, including Israel, and as it is written, "other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd."

 

[Robert Gwin]

The answer is the same--these things all come "but each one in his own order." Meaning, that it is future for some, but past for many who have come and gone already, as it is all done in the one event "with Christ", making the event pre-Christ for many, and post-Christ for many, including Israel, and as it is written, "other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd."

What is the one event of Christ Scott?

 

[ScottA]

What is the one event of Christ Scott?

It is the time of Christ, that is, whether from the Holy Spirit lighting upon Him and remaining to His coming again in the spirit, power, and glory of the Father--it is all one event with God. As that time of Christ historically took place over His generation (a shadow of "all that was and is, and is to come"), therefore, He said, "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."

 

[Robert Gwin]

It is the time of Christ, that is, whether from the Holy Spirit lighting upon Him and remaining to His coming again is the spirit, power, and glory of the Father--it is all one event with God. As that time of Christ historically took place over His generation (a shadow of "all that was and is, and is to come"), therefore, He said, "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."

I see your understanding Scott. You are referring to the days of Mat 24, yes sir Jesus gave those instructions to his apostles to answer their question of what would be the time of his presence. The chapter gives many signs, some of which have been fulfilled, some yet to be, to identify that his presence began. So I agree with you we are in those days that will not exceed a generation. The first sign was fulfilled with the outbreak of WW#1 so that was a long time back, so like most Biblically educated people, we too believe we are very near the end of those days. It is one more step in the fulfillment of the Bibles theme based on the first prophecy given by God recorded for us at Gen 3:15