2 Peter 3:10 The Big Whoosh

[WPM]

All of those Prophesies refer to the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath: the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster.
There is about 10 years from that world changing event until Jesus Returns, THEN He merely disposes of the army of the 'beast', by the Sword of His Word. No fire is involved at that time.

There is only one final fiery future coming of Jesus. It occurs at the end of the world.

 

[jeffweeder]

And none of those 5 support that.

All of them do. Just read them

 

[ewq1938]

All of them do. Just read them

I did. None support your claims. Like I said, in both Amill and Premill the second coming is ended before the GWTJ and LOF take place so you are automatically wrong. That goes unchallenged and uncommented upon because it's just pure fact.

 

[jeffweeder]

I did. None support your claims. Like I said, in both Amill and Premill the second coming is ended before the GWTJ and LOF take place so you are automatically wrong. That goes unchallenged and uncommented upon because it's just pure fact.

You have been challenged with 5 scriptures and your offering is zero scriptures. God's word has blown your nonsense into a thousand pieces.
I have nothing left to say to you. God will have to reach out to you through someone else, I guess.

 

[ewq1938]

You have been challenged with 5 scriptures and your offering is zero scriptures.

Literally nothing you posted shows the LOF judgment happening at the second coming. I have already referred to Rev 20 as proving the SC is not at the same time as the LOF.

 

[WPM]

You have been challenged with 5 scriptures and your offering is zero scriptures. God's word has blown your nonsense into a thousand pieces.
I have nothing left to say to you. God will have to reach out to you through someone else, I guess.

It's a waste of time.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Do you deny the Trinity?

No, I do not deny the Trinity. I deny the scientific explanation given in the fourth century.
That being said, I am no longer going to talk about this doctrine on a public forum.
Most Christians today do not understand this scientific explanation.
And in the age of heretic hunters, the doctrine is an electrified fence.
So, if you don't mind, I want to drop the subject.

 

[jeffweeder]

Literally nothing you posted shows the LOF judgment happening at the second coming.

Take another look at these scriptures please....do not listen to me.



2Thess 1
5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him].
9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day




This is clearly referring to the GWT judgment sentencing.
It occurs the day the Lord glorifies us yes?
He glorifies us at the second coming.


The NHNE become reality when the old H/E pass away.
You are obligated to believe when Jesus said this would happen. It would be complete folly to believe otherwise.


Rev 20
11 And I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them [for this heaven and earth are passing away].

Rev 21
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away (vanished),




Lk 21
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
34 “But be on guard, so that your hearts are not weighed down and depressed with the giddiness of debauchery and the nausea of self-indulgence and the worldly worries of life, and then that day [when the Messiah returns] will not come on you suddenly like a trap; 35 for it will come upon all those who live on the face of all the earth. 36 But keep alert at all times [be attentive and ready], praying that you may have the strength and ability [to be found worthy and] to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand in the presence of the Son of Man [at His coming].”


Matt 24
35 Heaven and earth [as now known] will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 “But of that [exact] day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son [in His humanity], but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man (the Messiah) will be just like the days of Noah.


It should now be obvious to you that the CURRENT heaven and the earth pass away as the GWT judgment takes place.

Rev 20
11 And I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them [for this heaven and earth are passing away].

Jesus is either the founding Father to Amillennialism, or he is the worst Premillennialist ever

 

[WPM]

No, I do not deny the Trinity. I deny the scientific explanation given in the fourth century.
That being said, I am no longer going to talk about this doctrine on a public forum.
Most Christians today do not understand this scientific explanation.
And in the age of heretic hunters, the doctrine is an electrified fence.
So, if you don't mind, I want to drop the subject.

Of course you do. Because you admit you deny the deity of Christ. Heresy!

 

[Keraz]

This is clearly referring to the GWT judgment sentencing.
It occurs the day the Lord glorifies us yes?
He glorifies us at the second coming.

The Prophesies about the Lords Day of wrath, are for the Sixth seal and the prophesies about the NH/NE are for after the GWT Judgment,
Neither relate to the glorious second coming.

The idea of people being 'glorified', is wrong and is never said to happen to anyone at the Return.

 

[ewq1938]

Take another look at these scriptures please....do not listen to me.



2Thess 1
5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him].
9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day




This is clearly referring to the GWT judgment sentencing.
It occurs the day the Lord glorifies us yes?

No. You aren't even bothering to study the verb tenses in the passage.

"These people will pay the penalty" has a future tense verb meaning that is not happening at the same time as the second coming. This is basic grammar, not just for Greek but any language. Errors and mistakes like this is why your list of "supportive" passages is a list of nonsense.

do not listen to me.

I agree.

 

[WPM]

The Prophesies about the Lords Day of wrath, are for the Sixth seal and the prophesies about the NH/NE are for after the GWT Judgment,
Neither relate to the glorious second coming.

The idea of people being 'glorified', is wrong and is never said to happen to anyone at the Return.

The sixth seal totally demolishers the Premillennial scheme. It shows the conflagration and the destruction of all the wicked. This relays the Amil position. Let us look at the text in Revelation 6:12-17, says, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

This is the time of God's final wrath upon the earth. The wicked are so afraid of their impending doom that they want the mountains and rocks to fall on them. Think about this: being crushed by mountains and rocks appeals more to them than facing God's wrath. No wicked will survive this.

Once again, this text finishes with a rhetorical question. The obvious answer (to those who do not have their own theological agenda) is that no one will survive this climatic event.

Revelation 6:12-17 depicts the conflagration that accompanies the return of Christ. It sees the regeneration of this earth and the destruction of all the wicked. This agrees with multiple Scripture.

· The sun became black
· The moon became as blood
· The stars of heaven fell unto the earth,
· The heaven departs like a scroll
· Every mountain and island are moved out of their places

This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally transformed. This occurs at the climactic return of Christ.

Scripture shows Jesus one and only coming to be totally climactic. When Jesus comes that is it - caught up or caught on, saved or lost, eternal bliss or eternal torment. It is the end. No one survives (see above).

 

[Keraz]

Luke 17:29-30 On the day that Sodom was destroyed, fire and sulphur rained upon them and killed them all. It will be like that again when the Son of Man is revealed. Amos 4:11-12

Matthew 24:37-42 As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be when the Son of Man comes. In the days before the flood, they ate, drank and married until the day that Noah entered the ark, they knew nothing until the flood came and swept them all away. That is how it will be again when the Son of Man comes. In His vengeance and wrath, not in His glory.

Genesis 9:11-14 My covenant to never again destroy all living creatures by a flood is confirmed by the sign of the rainbow.
Deuteronomy 32:22 & 34-35 I have sealed in My storehouse, ready for the Day of punishment and vengeance, a fire that will be set ablaze by My anger. It will envelope the world in flames, burning to the depths of the earth. Jeremiah 50:25
Psalm 110:1-6....I shall make Your enemies Your footstool....In glorious majesty, You judge the nations, shattering the wicked throughout the world.

Isaiah 24:18-23 On that Day, the Lord will punish in heaven the host of heaven and on earth the leaders of the nations are caught and punished. The sun and moon will be darkened, for the glory of the Lord will be in Jerusalem and is revealed to the elders of His people.
2 Peter 3:5-7 & 10....the world before Noah was destroyed by a great flood. Now, by God’s Word the present heavens and earth are reserved for burning, kept for the Day of judgement when the godless will be destroyed. That Day will come unexpectedly, the sky will dissipate with a great noise and the earth will be enveloped in flames. All its inhabitants will be tested. 1 Peter 4:12

Isaiah 66:1-6 My people are oppressed and afflicted and evil people displease Me, they say: Let the Lord come, we do not believe in Him. Therefore, the noise you can hear is the Lord dealing retribution to His foes. Romans 1:18, Hebrews 10:27
Matthew 24:40-44 There will be two men in a field, one will be taken the other left, two women at the mill, one will be taken, the other left. Keep awake, therefore for the Lord will come unexpectedly.
Isaiah 63:1-6 The Lord comes from the godless nations, in His power and majesty, He tramples them in His fury, their blood spills out and splashes His garments.



At the Return He comes in blood splashed garments. As Almighty God, Revelation 16:14
2 Thessalonians 1:6-10...the Day the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in flaming fire….He will reveal His glory among all believers. Revelation 14:1
What we can understand from the above Bible passages, is that the Day of the Lord, when the Son of Man takes action, is not Jesus’ Return as the Word of God, for the Millennium reign.
At the Return: ‘all will see Him’, not as in this Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, where He is not seen: Psalms 18:11, Luke 3:17, but ‘His glory will be revealed to all believers’. 2 Thessalonians 1:10
God promised to ‘never again flood the earth’, but He has ‘stored up a fire that will envelope the earth in flames’, a worldwide judgement/punishment, vividly described by all the prophets.
This terrible fire and devastation will come upon the world unexpectedly, ‘While they are saying: All is peaceful, all secure, then destruction is upon them’. 1 Thess. 5:3 Huge numbers will be killed by the fire, earthquakes and the resulting famines afterward. Jeremiah 9:22, Isaiah 34:1-8, Ezekiel 30:2-5
The Lord is not seen on that Day, but His people are saved and protected, [not raptured] Isaiah 30:26b, Isaiah 43:2, Zechariah 9:5-16

Then, as in Ezekiel 20:33-38...by My outpoured wrath, [The Day of wrath] I shall bring you out of the nations and gather you back to Israel. The Lord is: ‘Waiting to show you His favour’, and to bless His true believing people as they fulfill the promises to the Patriarchs and their destiny: ‘to be a light to the nations’. Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:4-16

 

[CadyandZoe]

Of course you do. Because you admit you deny the deity of Christ. Heresy!

Would you like to start another thread?

 

[Timtofly]

So this is either a destructive fiery event that accompanies the coming of Christ or it describes a 1,000 year-day of the Lord destructive fiery millennium (the opposite of what Premil portray in their writings).

The destruction is the event accompanying the Day of the Lord. The destruction is not the Day of the Lord.

The length of the day of the Lord does not change because of the events of the Second Coming. The length of the Day of the Lord is not in question is it? It is the position of timing before or after the Second Coming.

 

[WPM]

The destruction is the event accompanying the Day of the Lord. The destruction is not the Day of the Lord.

The length of the day of the Lord does not change because of the events of the Second Coming. The length of the Day of the Lord is not in question is it? It is the position of timing before or after the Second Coming.

All we are left with is a glorified earth for glorified believers.

 

[Timtofly]

That is just dishonest, at best.

And when Satan's universe is gone, and people realize there was no sun, moon, planets nor galaxies, how are you all going to deny a future 1,000 years then?

 

[Timtofly]

All we are left with is a glorified earth for glorified believers.

After the Day of the Lord ends. This creation will be handed back, but you are changing Revelation 20, and totally avoiding God's plan with your own biases and interpretations.

The glorified believers do not just show up on a whim.

 

[WPM]

After the Day of the Lord ends. This creation will be handed back, but you are changing Revelation 20, and totally avoiding God's plan with your own biases and interpretations.

The glorified believers do not just show up on a whim.

No. Rev 20 is the last of 7 recaps. It takes us back to the fruit of the first resurrection 2000 years ago. Your interpretation of Rev has zero corroboration elsewhere in Scripture. Amil has countless support.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Once again, this text finishes with a rhetorical question. The obvious answer (to those who do not have their own theological agenda) is that no one will survive this climatic event.

Revelation 6:12-17 depicts the conflagration that accompanies the return of Christ. It sees the regeneration of this earth and the destruction of all the wicked. This agrees with multiple Scripture.

· The sun became black
· The moon became as blood
· The stars of heaven fell unto the earth,
· The heaven departs like a scroll
· Every mountain and island are moved out of their places

This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally transformed. This occurs at the climactic return of Christ.

Scripture shows Jesus one and only coming to be totally climactic. When Jesus comes that is it - caught up or caught on, saved or lost, eternal bliss or eternal torment. It is the end. No one survives (see above).

Don't you see? Think about this logically. When do the kings, commanders and soldiers enter into caves in order to avoid the wrath of the lamb, before the celestial events or after?