Another Premillennial absurdity

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Marilyn C

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But, name some of these nations. I have never heard of such a thing. What qualifies them to be a sheep nation?
The trib, hasn`t happened so we don`t know. However I can tell you from Dan. 7: 12 that the lion/Eagle, bear & Leopard kingdoms will go into the millennium but not with the power they have now.

`As for the rest of the beasts, they had ther dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.` (Dan. 7: 12)

As to individuals we know that `one will be taken (away as in the flood) and one left, `(to go into the millennium.) (Matt. 14: 36 - 41)
 

Marilyn C

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The Body of Christ is also the Bride of Christ and the Building of Christ. And the eternal home of all the saints is in the New Jerusalem. Indeed all the saints who have passed on (both OT and NT) are all there presently in the New Jerusalem. And after the Resurrection/Rapture they will continue to have mansions and an eternal inheritance in the heavenly city (which will eventually replace the sun).

Now where does it say that the Body of Christ is the bride?
 

Marilyn C

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You didnt address my questions.
We are all part of the Body of Christ through the same Gospel, body, and blood of Jesus. One sheep with one Shephard.
God has purposes for 3 groups - `Give no offence, either to the Jews or to the Greeks, (nations) or to the church of God.` (1 Cor. 10: 32)

Where does it say the Old Testament saints are part of the Body?
 

WPM

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You don't know what it means to be "loving?" Do we really need to argue over its definition? This is your whole problem. You argue, but you don't edify. You embrace those who agree with you, but you have no love for those who don't. You deserve to be corrected and rebuked. And that's what I'm doing.

I have many Premil friends. They are gracious and Christian in their approach. They are not vicious and vindictive when someone disagrees with them.
 

WPM

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There is NO mention of the Body of Christ there!

Hello! The bride of Christ is the body of Christ! Don't believe your teachers that have taught you otherwise.
 

WPM

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In other words, you completely rationalize away the simple meaning of the passage? Clearly, the OT Hope of Israel was to return to God's covenant in order to be blessed as a nation of God. And you don't understand that? Why am I not surprised?

Hello! Breaking news: we have entered the new covenant. The old is gone forever. Race means nothing today. It is all about grace. The Gospel is open equally to Jews and Gentiles alike. There is no racial favoritism any more. Thank God!
 

WPM

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Then I put you in the same category as him. Sorry!

Aren't you a really nice person? I am sure he is going to lose sleep over this. Do you never step back and consider how your pettiness looks to grown adults? Some mature Premiller in the faith should pull you aside and tell you to finally grow up.
 

Marilyn C

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Hello! The bride of Christ is the body of Christ! Don't believe your teachers that have taught you otherwise.
So, then it shouldn`t be hard to show that you a man will marry Jesus, a man!
 

WPM

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The trib, hasn`t happened so we don`t know. However I can tell you from Dan. 7: 12 that the lion/Eagle, bear & Leopard kingdoms will go into the millennium but not with the power they have now.

`As for the rest of the beasts, they had ther dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.` (Dan. 7: 12)

As to individuals we know that `one will be taken (away as in the flood) and one left, `(to go into the millennium.) (Matt. 14: 36 - 41)

We have been in the trib since the stoning of Stephen.

The Greek word parousia appears 24 times in the New Testament. It is rendered “coming” in 22 passages and “presence” in 2. The word can be interpreted coming, arrival or presence and simply expresses in the Greek what it implies in the English. The word parousia is mostly applied in Scripture to the second coming of the Lord although it is not solely restricted to that Advent. In II Thessalonians 2:9 the word is applied to the arrival of antichrist. The word is also used in other passages to describe the coming or arrival of a person (1 Corinthians 16:17 and 2 Corinthians 7:6).

Notwithstanding, the first time we encounter the word parousia in relation to the coming of the Lord is in Matthew 24. The word is found in the disciples’ response to the Lord’s statement outside the temple – verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down (v2).

The disciples then question the Lord on the detail, meaning and timing of this solemn prophecy and of the end of the world by way of two questions in Matthew 24:3, asking,

(1) “Tell us, when shall these things be?” and
(2) what shall be the sign of thy parousia (or), and of the end (or sunteleías, or completion, or consummation) of the world?”

In this passage, "the end of the world" is plainly identified with the coming of the Lord.

The Lord employs the word parousia in reply to the disciples second question in Matthew 24:23-28, when He says, if any man shall say unto you (before the one final future second coming of the Lord), Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the parousia of the Son be. Wheresoever is the carcase, there will be gathered together the eagles.”

Christ continues in Matthew 24:29-31, speaking of this one final future coming, Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and ‘they shall gather together[Gr. episunago] his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

Matthew 24:35-41 continues: “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the parousia of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one ‘shall be taken’ [Gr. paralambano], and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one ‘shall be taken’ [Gr. paralambano], and the other left.”

After telling us that “heaven and earth shall pass away,” Jesus immediately tells us: “of that day and hour knoweth no man.” This final day that is approachingis coming unexpectedly. This fits in with the “thief in the night” scenario found elsewhere in Scripture. It would seem to confirm that the day that Christ returns is the day when the current corrupt natural order (both the creature and creation) is gloriously changed. The wicked and all corruption are destroyed when Jesus comes. The Lord here identifies the passing away of “heaven and earth” with “the coming of the Son of man.”

Christ describes this day as an unanticipated day for many – one that will find many unprepared. For those who are playing at religion they will be caught on. They will face the same punishment as the “hypocrite” when He comes: “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” The wicked are an all-inclusive group; they include every Christ-rejecter – from the religious professors to the outright profane hypocrites. They will all be caught in the destruction when they are left behind and the “heaven and earth ... pass away.”

The Lord uses the word parousia again in v 37 to equate the days preceding His coming to the days preceding Noah’s entry into the ark, saying, as the days of Noe were, so shall also the parousia of the Son of man be.” In His reply, Christ confirmed, what the disciples already seem to have rightly comprehended, in their questioning, that His next Coming is His last and only future coming and that it ushers in “the end of the world (or age)”

We note three particular characteristics of this day, which will be repeated at the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. (1) The wicked lived as if there was no judgement coming, verse 38 says, “they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage.” (2) The wicked were caught unexpected, verse 39 says, they “knew not until the flood came.” And finally, (3) the wicked were ALL destroyed, verse 39 says, “the flood came, and took them all away.”

Thus, the second coming of the Lord shall come in like manner, verse 39 confirms, “so shall also the parousia of the Son of man be.
 

jeffweeder

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Where does it say the Old Testament saints are part of the Body?
Are they not saved in Christ the same way as everybody else?

Matthew 8:11
I say to you that many [Gentiles] will come from east and west, and will sit down [to feast at the table, and enjoy God’s promises] with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven [because they accepted Me as Savior],
12 while the sons and heirs of the kingdom [the descendants of Abraham who will not recognize Me as Messiah] will be thrown out into the outer darkness; in that place [which is farthest removed from the kingdom] there will be weeping [in sorrow and pain] and grinding of teeth [in distress and anger].” 13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go; it will be done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was restored to health at that very hour.


Luke 13:29
And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and they will sit down [and feast at the table] in the kingdom of God.
 

WPM

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So, then it shouldn`t be hard to show that you a man will marry Jesus, a man!

You seem to have a grave difficulty with comprehending deep spiritual realities. Your hyper-literal approach to Scripture forces you to miss divine truth.

By the way:

When Jesus said He was a door in John 10:9, did mean he was a wooden door?
When He said He was the Vine in John 15:1, did that mean that he was a tree?
When He said He was a Lamb in Rev 13:8, did that mean that he was a literal sheep?
When He said He was a Lion in Revelation 5:5, did that mean that he was a literal big cat?
When He said He was bread in John 6:35 did that mean that he was a literal food?
 

Marilyn C

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We have been in the trib since the stoning of Stephen.

The Greek word parousia appears 24 times in the New Testament. It is rendered “coming” in 22 passages and “presence” in 2. The word can be interpreted coming, arrival or presence and simply expresses in the Greek what it implies in the English. The word parousia is mostly applied in Scripture to the second coming of the Lord although it is not solely restricted to that Advent. In II Thessalonians 2:9 the word is applied to the arrival of antichrist. The word is also used in other passages to describe the coming or arrival of a person (1 Corinthians 16:17 and 2 Corinthians 7:6).

Notwithstanding, the first time we encounter the word parousia in relation to the coming of the Lord is in Matthew 24. The word is found in the disciples’ response to the Lord’s statement outside the temple – verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down (v2).

The disciples then question the Lord on the detail, meaning and timing of this solemn prophecy and of the end of the world by way of two questions in Matthew 24:3, asking,

(1) “Tell us, when shall these things be?” and
(2) what shall be the sign of thy parousia (or), and of the end (or sunteleías, or completion, or consummation) of the world?”

In this passage, "the end of the world" is plainly identified with the coming of the Lord.

The Lord employs the word parousia in reply to the disciples second question in Matthew 24:23-28, when He says, if any man shall say unto you (before the one final future second coming of the Lord), Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the parousia of the Son be. Wheresoever is the carcase, there will be gathered together the eagles.”

Christ continues in Matthew 24:29-31, speaking of this one final future coming, Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and ‘they shall gather together[Gr. episunago] his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

Matthew 24:35-41 continues: “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the parousia of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one ‘shall be taken’ [Gr. paralambano], and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one ‘shall be taken’ [Gr. paralambano], and the other left.”

After telling us that “heaven and earth shall pass away,” Jesus immediately tells us: “of that day and hour knoweth no man.” This final day that is approachingis coming unexpectedly. This fits in with the “thief in the night” scenario found elsewhere in Scripture. It would seem to confirm that the day that Christ returns is the day when the current corrupt natural order (both the creature and creation) is gloriously changed. The wicked and all corruption are destroyed when Jesus comes. The Lord here identifies the passing away of “heaven and earth” with “the coming of the Son of man.”

Christ describes this day as an unanticipated day for many – one that will find many unprepared. For those who are playing at religion they will be caught on. They will face the same punishment as the “hypocrite” when He comes: “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” The wicked are an all-inclusive group; they include every Christ-rejecter – from the religious professors to the outright profane hypocrites. They will all be caught in the destruction when they are left behind and the “heaven and earth ... pass away.”

The Lord uses the word parousia again in v 37 to equate the days preceding His coming to the days preceding Noah’s entry into the ark, saying, as the days of Noe were, so shall also the parousia of the Son of man be.” In His reply, Christ confirmed, what the disciples already seem to have rightly comprehended, in their questioning, that His next Coming is His last and only future coming and that it ushers in “the end of the world (or age)”

We note three particular characteristics of this day, which will be repeated at the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. (1) The wicked lived as if there was no judgement coming, verse 38 says, “they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage.” (2) The wicked were caught unexpected, verse 39 says, they “knew not until the flood came.” And finally, (3) the wicked were ALL destroyed, verse 39 says, “the flood came, and took them all away.”

Thus, the second coming of the Lord shall come in like manner, verse 39 confirms, “so shall also the parousia of the Son of man be.
And none of that refers to the Body of Christ as that revelation was NOT revealed then.

8. 3 Prophetic days..jpg
 

jeffweeder

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You seem to have a grave difficulty with comprehending deep spiritual realities. Your hyper-literal approach to Scripture forces you to miss divine truth.

By the way:

When Jesus said He was a door in John 10:9, did mean he was a wooden door?
When He said He was the Vine in John 15:1, did that mean that he was a tree?
When He said He was a Lamb in Rev 13:8, did that mean that he was a literal sheep?
When He said He was a Lion in Revelation 5:5, did that mean that he was a literal big cat?
When He said He was bread in John 6:35 did that mean that he was a literal food?
Hmm, brutal but necessary.
You remind me of someone I met years ago who changed my heart forever.
 
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Marilyn C

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Are they not saved in Christ the same way as everybody else?

Matthew 8:11
I say to you that many [Gentiles] will come from east and west, and will sit down [to feast at the table, and enjoy God’s promises] with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven [because they accepted Me as Savior],
12 while the sons and heirs of the kingdom [the descendants of Abraham who will not recognize Me as Messiah] will be thrown out into the outer darkness; in that place [which is farthest removed from the kingdom] there will be weeping [in sorrow and pain] and grinding of teeth [in distress and anger].” 13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go; it will be done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was restored to health at that very hour.


Luke 13:29
And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and they will sit down [and feast at the table] in the kingdom of God.
That all relates to the kingdom rule of the Lord over ISRAEL. The Body of Christ revelation was NOT revealed at that time.
 

Marilyn C

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You seem to have a grave difficulty with comprehending deep spiritual realities. Your hyper-literal approach to Scripture forces you to miss divine truth.

By the way:

When Jesus said He was a door in John 10:9, did mean he was a wooden door?
When He said He was the Vine in John 15:1, did that mean that he was a tree?
When He said He was a Lamb in Rev 13:8, did that mean that he was a literal sheep?
When He said He was a Lion in Revelation 5:5, did that mean that he was a literal big cat?
When He said He was bread in John 6:35 did that mean that he was a literal food?
So, it should be easy to show where the Body of Christ, the NEW MAN, is now a woman? And why does He want to `marry` us when we are already His BODY?
 

jeffweeder

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So, it should be easy to show where the Body of Christ, the NEW MAN, is now a woman? And why does He want to `marry` us when we are already His BODY?
Glorified body meets glorified body when he comes a second time. He wouldnt marry our fallen flesh would he.
 

jeffweeder

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The bride makes herself ready ( through sanctification and faith in the truth )
She descends from heaven all prepared like a bride.

Revelation 19:7
Let us rejoice and shout for joy! Let us give Him glory and honor, for the marriage of the Lamb has come [at last] and His bride (the redeemed) has prepared herself.”


Matt 25
6 But at midnight there was a shout, ‘Look! The bridegroom [is coming]! Go out to meet him.’ 7 Then all those virgins got up and put their own lamps in order [trimmed the wicks and added oil and lit them]. 8 But the foolish virgins said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise replied, ‘No, otherwise there will not be enough for us and for you, too; go instead to the dealers and buy oil for yourselves.’ 10 But while they were going away to buy oil, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut and locked. 11 Later the others also came, and said, ‘Lord, Lord, open [the door] for us.’ 12 But He replied, ‘I assure you and most solemnly say to you, I do not know you [we have no relationship].’ 13 Therefore, be on the alert [be prepared and ready], for you do not know the day nor the hour [when the Son of Man will come].


Revelation 21:2
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, arrayed like a bride adorned for her husband;


9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven final plagues came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a vast and lofty mountain, and showed me the holy (sanctified) city of Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, 11 having God’s glory [filled with His radiant light].


Heb 12
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels [in festive gathering], 23 and to the general assembly and assembly of the firstborn who are registered [as citizens] in heaven, and to God, who is Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous (the redeemed in heaven) who have been made perfect [bringing them to their final glory], 24 and to Jesus, the Mediator of a new covenant [uniting God and man], and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks [of mercy], a better and nobler and more gracious message than the blood of Abel [which cried out for vengeance].
 
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WPM

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So, it should be easy to show where the Body of Christ, the NEW MAN, is now a woman? And why does He want to `marry` us when we are already His BODY?

Same thing, varying symbolism; just like we are sheep and also wheat. This is simple to grasp for the indoctrinated mind.