22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

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WPM

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And you have proof they are feign worshippers? Because your opinion is not Scripture.

Was Eve a sinner and closet Satan worshipper? You do realize that people who listen to Satan can change their minds, not that they had their mind made up before Satan approached them.

Your opinion is misleading, and speculative.

A dead sinner is always a sinner. A living human is declared a sinner by God. Adam and Eve were not sinners because they listened to Satan. They were sinners because they disobeyed God and died. Then God declared them and their offspring sinners by birth. Do you have a verse that declares Adam and Eve were created sinners? Who feigned to be friends with God, but were not? Do you have a verse that declares those people after the Millennium were sinners prior to listening to Satan? Or is that a false presupposition, and a biased prejudice against then for listening to Satan. It is not like this is the first time this has happened. We have Scripture and an example in Genesis 3 to compare, without jumping to conclusions and forming an opinion in a vacuum. So you cannot declare something with just one or two verses, and think your opinion is a strong argument. The moment they were consumed with fire settled their eternal condition. They no longer had a choice if they were a sinner or not at that point. They certainly could no longer act in sin, as they were removed from the face of the earth. That they were a sinner in the moments leading up to their being consumed by fire is mere speculation. You seem smart enough not to speculate or make something up. Listening to Satan is not what makes one a sinner. Living in death and sin is what made Adam and Eve sinners. Being born a sinner makes one a sinner. Facts that you have to make up and allege against these people, that are not clearly stated in Scripture. All I know is they are consumed by fire, a means of death.

Paul clearly stated it was by Adam that sin entered the world. If that is the case, then Adam and Eve were not sinners when Eve listened to Satan and ate the fruit. There is no indication in Revelation 20 that sin entered the world at all. So those consumed by fire were dead, and sinners in death, not prior to being consumed by fire. Just like Adam was not a sinner until he literally died. Adam was a sinner in his new temporal corruptible physical body. The body that gave birth to Seth. Genesis 5:1-3

"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:"

Adam was created in God's image. But now we see Seth was no longer in that image, but now in Adam's image. There is no indication that sin was in the world when Adam was created. Yet Seth was born a sinner, and mankind were now sinners by birth. So your opinion is that when these humans are destroyed by fire, death being the last enemy, but now sin would be allowed back into the world at this moment, to be defeated all over again? Now who is making the defeat of sin on the Cross of none effect? While sin was defeated, people being born into sin will not change until the Second Coming. Those who deny a Millennium after the Second Coming, deny Christ ruling until all enemies are defeated. They are denying the time on earth where sin is no more dictating how humans live. Many pre-mill get that wrong, but denying a future millennium does not right that wrong, it turns a wrong into a lie that is then promoted as truth.

Your sinless sinners doctrine is ridiculous. It is anti-biblical and anti-truth and anti-commonsense. I don't know how you can seriously push it. To even imagine that a mortal (whether saved or not) has the capability not to sin runs contrary to numerous Scripture. Not that that is an obstacle to you. You admit you don't believe in the necessity of corroboration. With this belief you don't even have a proof-text.

· Where in history or Scripture does it say that humans in mortal bodies can become sinless?
· Where in history or Scripture does it show a sinner become sinless outside of salvation?
· Surely glorification is the only means that Scripture shows where a human attains unto that?
· Where in Scripture teaches the concept of wholesale obedience by unregenerate mortals during a future millennium?
· How can billions of sinners enter your supposed future millennium and suddenly be made sinless and then once it hits exactly 1,000 years then instantly become the grossest and most foolish bunch of sinners ever to live as en-mass they become Satan worshipers?
· How can sinners not sin?

Even if Christ was literally standing over sinners with an iron rod for a thousand year they would still sin because they are sinners!!! This is Christianity 101.

The Bible says that “the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God” (1 Corinthians 2:14).
The Bible says that “they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them” (1 Corinthians 2:14).
The Bible says “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).
The Bible says of the natural man: there is “none that seeketh after God” (Romans 3:10).
The Bible says of the natural man: there is “none righteous” (Romans 3:10).
The Bible says of the natural man: there is “none that understandeth” (Romans 3:10).
The Bible says of the natural man: there is “none that doeth good” (Romans 3:10).
 

jeffweeder

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Your opinion. You have no Scripture to prove your opinion.

Amills have been posting scriptures to you all year and you still say its our opinion.
Who populates the future millennium after the second coming? Why are they outside the camp of the saints if they are not sinners?
Surely you can simply answer these questions.
 

Timtofly

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Christ is the new covenant temple. He is the final sacrifice for sin. The old covenant is abolished. I am not sure why you are promoting its restoration.

For what purpose? Why would we need it? There was a reason why the curtain was ripped in two. There was a reason the temple was destroyed in AD70. The temple has been rendered redundant. It has been replaced by a better temple.

Daniel 9:26 says: “the people of the prince that shall come (speaking of the Roman soldiers) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”


In Daniel 9:27 after predicting that the old covenant would be removed, the angel predicted that God would destroy the temple (the centre-point of the sacrifices) forever. We learn: “for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”


The consummation is the one final future Coming of Christ.

We see the fulfilment of this in Christ’s words in Matthew 23:34-35: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord (the consummation, as Daniel predicted).”


Christ continues (to remove any ambiguity as to what He was referring to) in Matthew 24:1-2, “And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”


This couldn’t be clearer.

What was going to replace the old physical Jewish building in Jerusalem was not something that was restricted to one race but a global spiritual temple that embraced all nations equally.

In John 4:19-20 we see Christ addressing this subject, in response to a statement made by the woman at the well. The woman said to Christ, “Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”


Christ responded in vv 21-24, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”


What Christ was teaching here was that a new economy was being introduced through His earthly ministry that would forever replace the old. No longer would the worship of the living God be restricted to a natural geographical land-mass or be centred upon a physical temporal brick building built with hands in earthly Jerusalem, rather, it would now be concentrated in a spiritual eternal temple (the redeemed Church) which is spiritual located within the heavenly New Jerusalem. That temple would not be restricted to one physical nation but would be situated throughout all the nations of the world.

Since Christ, the worship of God was no longer restricted to a physical earthly building but rather relocated to an invisible spiritual temple called the Church.

The Jews at the time of Christ, being ignorant and earthly minded, interpreted this statement to mean: He would destroy and rebuild the physical Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. The reading records, “Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?”


However, the next verse exposed their blindness, saying, “But he spake of the temple of his body” (v 21).


Christ spiritualizes the temple here. None could surely dispute this. There were 2 different mindsets in this picture. Christ’s heavenly mind-set presenting the introduction of the new covenant in the form of Himself and the Jews carnal earthly mind-set hankering towards an old inadequate system.

Christ also declared during His ministry, whilst standing in the actual temple, “I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple (Matthew 12:6). However, the Jews in the main had No comprehension of that glorious statement. To this spiritual Temple would the nations finally find mercy, thus, fulfilling perfectly what the old temple couldn’t. And thus, through Himself (the living Temple), fulfilling Isaiah 2:2 that all nations shall flow unto it.”


Granted, the temple was central to the Jewish faith. For anyone to intimate in any way that it would be destroyed was viewed as nothing short of blasphemy. However, Christ was redirecting their eyes from the old temporal building – which was an imperfect shadow and type of Himself – and pointing them towards the new all-sufficient eternal temple – in the form of His person. Through His impending death, the temporal temple and its ceremonies would be done away with.

Hebrews 9:11 directly rebukes those who look to an earthly carnal building in modern Israel. It explicitly states, “Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building.”


This is God’s perfect temple today – and it is eternal. This building will never fall, be replaced or share a central place with another.
Thanks for describing the here and now.

Now moving on to the Second Coming and the Millennium Kingdom. Do you have any verses that do not apply to now, but do address the future Millennium?
 

Timtofly

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We don't need to dismiss any part of the Bible when we place it properly in alignment with the rest of Scripture.

Rev. 20, for instance, aligns perfectly with Scripture when seen as a re-telling of 1 Corinthians 21-27. When seen as the foundation of the Pre-Mil doctrine, it is a red-headed stepchild. It has no congruence with Scripture in the least and confuses people almost as much as the trinity.
Can you post the verses themselves you are referring to?
 

jeffweeder

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That happened for Lazarus when he heard the voice of Jesus. Your opinion seems to vary, and not accept that the hour already came and now is, for over 1992 years and counting.
The hour spoken of in Jn 5:28 is a bodily resurrection to glorification at the judgment. Lazaras body was not glorified at that time as Jesus hadn't risen bodily yet in victory. He was the first resurrection to glory remember. When we see him as he is at the second coming, we will have a body like his glorious body.
 
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Timtofly

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Your sinless sinners doctrine is ridiculous. It is anti-biblical and anti-truth and anti-commonsense. I don't know how you can seriously push it. To even imagine that a mortal (whether saved or not) has the capability not to sin runs contrary to numerous Scripture. Not that that is an obstacle to you. You admit you don't believe in the necessity of corroboration. With this belief you don't even have a proof-text.

· Where in history or Scripture does it say that humans in mortal bodies can become sinless?
· Where in history or Scripture does it show a sinner become sinless outside of salvation?
· Surely glorification is the only means that Scripture shows where a human attains unto that?
· Where in Scripture teaches the concept of wholesale obedience by unregenerate mortals during a future millennium?
· How can billions of sinners enter your supposed future millennium and suddenly be made sinless and then once it hits exactly 1,000 years then instantly become the grossest and most foolish bunch of sinners ever to live as en-mass they become Satan worshipers?
· How can sinners not sin?

Even if Christ was literally standing over sinners with an iron rod for a thousand year they would still sin because they are sinners!!! This is Christianity 101.

The Bible says that “the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God” (1 Corinthians 2:14).
The Bible says that “they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them” (1 Corinthians 2:14).
The Bible says “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).
The Bible says of the natural man: there is “none that seeketh after God” (Romans 3:10).
The Bible says of the natural man: there is “none righteous” (Romans 3:10).
The Bible says of the natural man: there is “none that understandeth” (Romans 3:10).
The Bible says of the natural man: there is “none that doeth good” (Romans 3:10).
Who says Adam's flesh continues after the 7th Trumpet? Even you claim all are dead at Armageddon.

You are really not paying attention to the sheep and wheat, the Second Coming firstfruits. They are the first generation of those in the Millennium. They are no longer in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. They have permanent incorruptible physical bodies just like Adam and Eve prior to sin entering the world. It is you who rejects Genesis 1-4.

Adam brought sin into the World. Christ took sin away, and will reign 1,000 years without sin, and without Satan deceiving people. That is not my opinion. That is what Zechariah 14 and Isaiah 65 are declaring.

You keep quoting verses describing the here and now. Where are your verses disclaiming life on earth post the Second Coming?
 

Timtofly

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Amills have been posting scriptures to you all year and you still say its our opinion.
Who populates the future millennium after the second coming? Why are they outside the camp of the saints if they are not sinners?
Surely you can simply answer these questions.
Where are those verses claiming sinners keep living on earth after the Second Coming?
 

Timtofly

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The hour spoken of in Jn 5:28 is a bodily resurrection to glorification at the judgment. Lazaras body was not glorified at that time as Jesus hadn't risen bodily yet in victory. He was the first resurrection to glory remember. When we see him as he is at the second coming, we will have a body like his glorious body.
Jesus had a glorified body before the Cross.

Having a permanent incorruptible physical body is not being glorified. Those in the OT waiting for the Cross, were not glorified. They had a first resurrection, a permanent incorruptible physical body. Being glorified is tied to the spirit. Putting on the spirit is putting on immortality. That is glorification. Those currently in Paradise have a permanent incorruptible physical body. They are waiting for the Second Coming to be glorified.

Those firstfruits of the Second Coming are the sheep and wheat. The church is not saved by being touched by an angel. The wheat are harvested by angels. The sheep are brought by angels to Jesus on His throne in Jerusalem. Read Matthew 13 and Matthew 25 and show me this takes place prior to the Second Coming. Jesus is present on earth in these chapters after the Second Coming.
 

jeffweeder

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Where are those verses claiming sinners keep living on earth after the Second Coming?

You're asking me this Lol?

There isn't any as all Amill's will tell you, just us believers given white robes.

who gonna populate the future millennium now?
 
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Timtofly

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Sorry, I didn't post the chapter. I was referring to 1 Corinthians 15:21-27.

"But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits (those in Abraham's bosom physically resurrected and ascended on resurrection Sunday); afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (Those alive on earth at the Second Coming) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power (Those alive at the end of the Millennium reign of Jesus). "
 

jeffweeder

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Jesus had a glorified body before the Cross.

No he didn't
John 7:39
But He was speaking of the [Holy] Spirit, whom those who believed in Him [as Savior] were to receive afterward. The Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified (raised to honor).

John 17:5
Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory and majesty that I had with You before the world existed.


[Timtofly]
Being glorified is tied to the spirit. Putting on the spirit is putting on immortality. That is glorification.]

1Cor 15
42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead. The [human] body that is sown is perishable and mortal, it is raised imperishable and immortal.
43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in strength; 44 it is sown a natural body [mortal, suited to earth], it is raised a spiritual body [immortal, suited to heaven]. As surely as there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written [in Scripture], “The first man, Adam, became a living soul (an individual);” the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving spirit [restoring the dead to life]. 46 However, the spiritual [the immortal life] is not first, but the physical [the mortal life]; then the spiritual.




[Timtofly] Those currently in Paradise have a permanent incorruptible physical body. They are waiting for the Second Coming to be glorified.]
If we have an incorruptible body then why / how are we raised the last day?
They have a dead body and await the resurrection the last day
 
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Timtofly

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You're asking me this Lol?

There isn't any as all Amill's will tell you, just us believers given white robes.

who gonna populate the future millennium now?
The firstfruits of the Second Coming.

Who started the church?

The firstfruits of the first coming.
 

Timtofly

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No he didn't
John 7:39
But He was speaking of the [Holy] Spirit, whom those who believed in Him [as Savior] were to receive afterward. The Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified (raised to honor).

John 17:5
Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory and majesty that I had with You before the world existed.


[Timtofly]
Being glorified is tied to the spirit. Putting on the spirit is putting on immortality. That is glorification.]

1Cor 15
42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead. The [human] body that is sown is perishable and mortal, it is raised imperishable and immortal.
43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in strength; 44 it is sown a natural body [mortal, suited to earth], it is raised a spiritual body [immortal, suited to heaven]. As surely as there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written [in Scripture], “The first man, Adam, became a living soul (an individual);” the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving spirit [restoring the dead to life]. 46 However, the spiritual [the immortal life] is not first, but the physical [the mortal life]; then the spiritual.




[Timtofly] Those currently in Paradise have a permanent incorruptible physical body. They are waiting for the Second Coming to be glorified.]
If we have an incorruptible body then why / how are we raised the last day?
They have a dead body and await the resurrection the last day
Then explain what happened on the Mount of Transfiguration?
 

WPM

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No he didn't
John 7:39
But He was speaking of the [Holy] Spirit, whom those who believed in Him [as Savior] were to receive afterward. The Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified (raised to honor).

John 17:5
Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory and majesty that I had with You before the world existed.


[Timtofly]
Being glorified is tied to the spirit. Putting on the spirit is putting on immortality. That is glorification.]

1Cor 15
42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead. The [human] body that is sown is perishable and mortal, it is raised imperishable and immortal.
43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in strength; 44 it is sown a natural body [mortal, suited to earth], it is raised a spiritual body [immortal, suited to heaven]. As surely as there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written [in Scripture], “The first man, Adam, became a living soul (an individual);” the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving spirit [restoring the dead to life]. 46 However, the spiritual [the immortal life] is not first, but the physical [the mortal life]; then the spiritual.




[Timtofly] Those currently in Paradise have a permanent incorruptible physical body. They are waiting for the Second Coming to be glorified.]
If we have an incorruptible body then why / how are we raised the last day?
They have a dead body and await the resurrection the last day

Excellent bro. Good points.
 

CadyandZoe

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This has been visited before, but revisitation is in order.

Who in orthodox Christian Church history between 100 AD and 1800 AD espoused the restoration of animal sacrifices?
Who cares? The truth is not decided by majority rule.
 

WPM

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Who cares? The truth is not decided by majority rule.

He is talking about a rich history and heritage of those who have had the Holy Ghost, had a diligent love for the Word of God, including many that lived close to the time of Christ. This heresy actually was birthed by the Premil heretics Cerinthus of Asia Minor (AD 50-100), Marcion of Sinope, Asia Minor (Born: AD 85, Died: AD 160), Porphyry [or Porphyrius] of Tyre (AD 232- 305) and Apollinarius of Laodicea, Asia Minor (died AD 382).

Cerinthus was a follower and advocate of the Jewish law, something Epiphanius (who was Bishop of Constantia in Cyprus, AD 310-403) alludes to in his writings:

Cerinthus … adhered in part to Judaism. He, however, claims that the Law and prophets have been given by the angels, and the law-giver is one of the angels who have made the world (The Panarion, Against Cerinthians or Merinthians, 1:3).

Theodoret (Antioch Syria, died October 22, AD 362) also strongly repudiates Cerinthus and his false teaching, saying:

For, unlike that of Cerinthus and of those whose views are similar to his, the kingdom of our God and Saviour is not to be of this earth, nor circumscribed by a specific time. Those men create for themselves in imagination a period of a thousand years, and luxury that will pass, and other pleasures, and along with them, sacrifices and Jewish solemnities. As for ourselves, we await the life that knows no growing old (Compendium of Heretics’ Fables, 5.21).

This is the simplistic early overview of modern day Premilennialism. It is what they teach and preach. Little do many know, but, the ancient source of their teaching is the ancient Judaizing heretics. The cross does not seem satisfactory, efficacious and final enough for this founder of early Premillennialist. He wrongly and strongly promoted the full reinstitution of the redundant old covenant arrangement with its multiple additional sin offerings to atone for the sins of man in the future. The “sacrifices and Jewish solemnities” endorsed to arise in a future millennium refers to the full gamut of the Old Testament Mosaic sacrifice system. Cerinthus is the first promoter of a thousand years of blood-letting surrounding the abolished old covenant feasts and festivals.

Through his distorted view of the Hebrew Scriptures, Marcion also advanced the idea of the full recovery of the Jewish tradition in the future. He saw the nation retaking its favored Old Testament position above all nations again in the future. He absurdly believed that Israel, according to Old Testament prophecies, has its own unique Messiah, who is distinct to the Jesus of the New Testament.

Tertullian explains in Chapter VI:

Marcion has laid down the position, that Christ who in the days of Tiberius was, by a previously unknown god, revealed for the salvation of all nations, is a different being from Him who was ordained by God the Creator for the restoration of the Jewish state, and who is yet to come.

It seems from the early censures of Marcion by both early Chiliasts and early Amillennialists that the restoration of the Jewish state was at the center and forefront of his eschatological hope. This was not found in any of the orthodox early writers. The Church was God’s only spiritual elect and the true people of God.

Tertullian continues in Chapter XXIV (Christ’s Millennial and Heavenly Glory in Company with His Saints),

God’s kingdom in an everlasting and heavenly possession. Besides, your Christ promises to the Jews their primitive condition, with the recovery of their country; and after this life’s course is over, repose in Hades in Abraham’s bosom.

Tertullian takes Marcion to task over his view that the Jewish Messiah (who was said to be different from Jesus Christ) would give “the Jews their primitive condition, with the recovery of their country.” Here he was advocating the legitimacy of, and the Jewish return to, the old covenant ceremonial system. It is important to say at this juncture, not one of the orthodox early Chiliasts promoted this theology. This was a belief that was outside of the pale of orthodoxy – both Amillennial and Chiliast. It was a Jewish heresy advocated by the neo-Gnostics like Cerinthus and Marcion.
 
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WPM

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Who cares? The truth is not decided by majority rule.

Porphyry is another heretic who promoted the Premillennial doctrine. He was an enemy of orthodox Christianity and held views that were in conflict with the more-moderate classic early Chiliasm. He was another Judaizer who tried to foist old covenant practices upon New Testament Christianity. He also promoted the full return of the old covenant ceremonial law and festivals.

Jerome strongly refuted him, and exposed his error:

[T]he blasphemer Porphyrius – and who assert that the ceremonies of the old Law should be observed in the Church of Christ by the stock of faithful Israel, those should also look forward to a golden Jerusalem for 1000 years, that they may offer sacrifices and be circumcised, that they may sit on the Sabbath, sleep, become sated, drunk, and to rise to frolic, their amusement being offensive to God (Commentary to Isaiah, Chapter XXIV).​

Jerome was not painting all Chiliasts with the same brush. Quite the opposite! He was specifically exposing this early heretical Premillennialist who advocated the full restoration of the old covenant arrangement in a future thousand years, including the pointless slaughter of countless innocent animals during that period. This was not an opinion that orthodox Chiliasts held, taught or accepted anywhere throughout the early Church.

Apollinarius took up the ancient Premillennial baton from these early heretics. Notably, he too was a prominent heretic who was strongly opposed and renounced by the universal Church of his day. Very little of what he wrote has been passed down to us. Most of it was destroyed as heretical. Most of what we have comes from his theological opponents who were strong in their renunciations.

Gregory, Bishop of Nyssa said of Apollinarius of Laodicea, that his theology taught:

“the Jewish animal-sacrifices shall be restored” (Dogmatic Treatises, Etc.; Letter XVII – To Eustathia).​

Basil the Great describes what Apollinarius believed

Apollinarius [of Laodicea], who is no less a cause of sorrow to the Churches. With his facility of writing, and a tongue ready to argue on any subject, he has filled the world with his works ... What he writes on theology is not founded on Scripture, but on human reasonings. He has written about the resurrection, from a mythical, or rather Jewish, point of view; urging that we shall return again to the worship of the Law, be circumcised, keep the Sabbath, abstain from meats, offer sacrifices to God, worship in the Temple at Jerusalem, and be altogether turned from Christians into Jews. What could be more ridiculous? Or, rather, what could be more contrary to the doctrines of the Gospel? (Letters and Select Works: Letter 263, 4 - To the Westerns).​

Here is an outline of classic Premillennial teaching. Again, noticeably, this was held by an early heretic who was strongly resisted by the orthodox Christian Church. This was foreign teaching to them in the light of what Christ ushered in through the new covenant. Apollinarius taught that Israel would be restored to her previous old covenant place for preference over all other nations.

Gregory the Theologian also criticized Apollinarius in his letter to Cledonius the Priest Against Apollinarius (Epistle CI. (101), highlighting his Premillennial beliefs.

I would they were even cut off that trouble you, and would reintroduce a second Judaism, and a second circumcision, and a second system of sacrifices. For if this be done, what hinders Christ also being born again to set them aside, and again being betrayed by Judas, and crucified and buried, and rising again, that all may be fulfilled in the same order, like the Greek system of cycles, in which the same revolutions of the stars bring round the same events.​

Jerome targets the theology of the early Premillennial heretics, mentioning Apollinaris in particular in his renunciation:

Dionysius the bishop of the church of Alexandria, wrote a fine book mocking the tale of the millennium, as well as the golden and bejeweled earthly Jerusalem, the restoration of the temple, the blood of sacrifices, the idleness of the sabbath, the injury of circumcision, nuptials, child birth, child-rearing, the delights of feasting, and the servitude of all nations, and once again wars, armies, and triumphs, and the slaughter of the vanquished, and the death of the hundred-year-old sinner. Apollinaris responded to him in two volumes, and he is followed not only by men of his own sect, but also by a great multitude of our own, at least in this matter, so that I already perceive with foreboding that the anger of many will be aroused against me (Commentary to Isaiah, Preface to Book 18).​

For Jerome, the Premillennial scheme was “a tale.” Others would similarly call it “a fable.” The idea of a future age in-between “this age” and “the age to come” was quite fanciful to many of the early Amil writers. When the detail of the heretical Premillennialist heretics were threw into the mix, with their expectation of more ongoing sin, more decay, more sickness, more death, more sin offerings, etc, etc, it was hardly surprising that many found this far-fetched. When you add all the religious actors that populate the millennium and give their feigned allegiance to Christ and then turn on Him when Satan appears 1000 years after the second coming, then you are looking at a doctrine that seems beyond the pale of reality and truth. When they then argued that a future earth will see the mortal wicked interact with the glorified saints for a thousand years then you are looking at a clear non-corroborative doctrine.

In an article Jerome’s Judaizers, Hillel I. Newman argues: “So far as we know, none of these authors maintained … that in the millennial kingdom all would offer sacrifices and keep the sabbath and that all men would be circumcised” (p. 442).

Premil Lyford Paterson Edwards even concedes: “we see the unfortunate fate of Chiliasm in getting mixed up with heresies with which it, as such, had nothing to do. The extraordinary detestation which overtook Apollinaris as arch-heretic par excellence seems to have finally discouraged Chiliasm in the Eastern Church. It was reckoned as a heresy thereafter and though it appears sporadically down to our own day it is of no more interest for our purpose” (The Transformation of Early Christianity from an Eschatological to a Socialized Movement).

The later Jacobite bishop of Dara, in Mesopotamia (Dead: AD 845), John of Dara exposes Apollonarius for his millennialist teaching:

Apollonarius the heretic, with his companions, abandoned the glorious illumination of the living words and became blind to the faith like the Jews. He dared to speak, like the Pharisees, that after the resurrection of the dead, we shall live again for a thousand years in Jerusalem with the Messiah, with bodily pleasures, and childish sacrifices, and earthly libations before him [the Messiah?]. After these things are fulfilled, at that time we shall be taken up into heaven. And he was not shamed by the voice of Paul who said, “The kingdom of God is not of eating or drinking. But of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.” Also in like manner Irenaeus bishop of Lyon in Gaul wandered in these matters, which are in the book of Papias as Eusebius narrates (On the Resurrection of Bodies 2.13).​

John of Dara likens Apollonarius’ Premillennialism to Phariseeism. He rubbishes the idea of Judaic temple ceremonial in Jerusalem for a thousand years in front of the Messiah.
 
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CadyandZoe

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He is talking about a rich history and heritage of those who have had the Holy Ghost, had a diligent love for the Word of God, including many that lived close to the time of Christ.
Again. So what? Truth is not decided by chronology or majority rule. Period. Jesus, Paul, the apostles and the prophets wrote inspired scripture and predate the ECF's. The scriptures are our only reliable source of information concerning God's will.

As as general rule, I always ignore the ECF's. They have nothing at all to contribute to my knowledge of doctrine. And I never argue patristics because it is a complete waste of time as many can attest.

Anyone born after 70AD will naturally conclude that God is done with Israel. Anyone born after 1949, won't necessarily have that bias.
 
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