Question For JW's

[Keiw]

Have you read the NWT?
NWT John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God".

You think Thomas said my God to Jesus, but i showed you the facts. He knew Jesus has a God like we do.

 

[Keiw]

.


At the time that information came out; God had not yet produced a
descendant.

But even so, God's descendant isn't another deity as if there are now two
Gods out there. When God reproduced (if indeed He did) then His offspring
is simply more of Himself rather than some other species. In other words:
were God to produce fifteen descendants they would not amount to fifteen
extra deities; they would all be the same deity as their parent, viz: true God
is the only kind of offspring that the true God can produce, i.e. like produces
like: the same as itself. It's impossible for the true God's offspring to come
from Him as a false true God.
_

Jesus was with God at the beginning of creation. He is Gods master worker of Prov 8-- All other things created through him, he tells all at Prov 8 he was created. Coll1:15 says he is the firstborn of all creation. All creation occurred at the beginning.

 

[Keiw]

And Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God". Should I believe you or Thomas who knew Jesus personally?

Believe the bible facts- Psalm 45:7--Every Israelite including Thomas knew the Messiah has a God like we do--God does not have a God, its ludacris to think he does.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

Jesus was with God at the beginning of creation.

At present; The Word is a plurality-- he's the human being of John 1:14 and
the spirit being of John 1:1-3

The spirit being has existed from time immemorial, whereas the human
being didn't come along till it's conception in the Jewish girl Mary's womb.

NOTE: Too many Christians nowadays are unable to detect that Jesus and
The Word are two separate and distinct persons. Rank and file pew warmers
have the rather disappointing propensity to speak of Yahweh's son as if he
were a demigod.
_

 

[Keiw]

.


At present; The Word is a plurality-- he's the human being of John 1:14 and
the spirit being of John 1:1-3

The spirit being has existed from time immemorial, whereas the human
being didn't come along till it's conception in the Jewish girl Mary's womb.

NOTE: Too many Christians nowadays are unable to detect that Jesus and
The Word are two separate and distinct persons. Rank and file pew warmers
have the rather disappointing propensity to speak of Yahweh's son as if he
were a demigod.
_

He isnt God at all. He is the firstborn of all creation= created direct-first and last, all other things created through him.

 

[The Learner]

.


At the time that information came out; God had not yet produced a
descendant.

But even so, God's descendant isn't another deity as if there are now two
Gods out there. When God reproduced (if indeed He did) then His offspring
is simply more of Himself rather than some other species. In other words:
were God to produce fifteen descendants they would not amount to fifteen
extra deities; they would all be the same deity as their parent, viz: true God
is the only kind of offspring that the true God can produce, i.e. like produces
like: the same as itself. It's impossible for the true God's offspring to come
from Him as a false true God.
_

The Son of God is eternal, not offspring. The incarnation is about God coming to earth as fully God and fully Man.

Psalm 2:12
King James Version
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

 

[Wrangler]

Fact--Every Israelite, including Thomas knew the Messiah has a God like we do-Psalm 45:7--thus knows 100% God does not have a God, thus turned and looked to heaven when he said my God. I serve the true God-YHWH(Jehovah) --Jesus' God and Father. Jesus is not YHWH. In the OT it clearly states--I am (YHWH)Jehovah there is no other God beside me( singular) not we.

I'm so glad you found Psalm 45:7. All jack has is some vague personal attack.

 

[Jack]

You think Thomas said my God to Jesus, but i showed you the facts. He knew Jesus has a God like we do.

Is English your second language?

NWT John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God".

 

[Jack]

Believe the bible facts- Psalm 45:7--Every Israelite including Thomas knew the Messiah has a God like we do--God does not have a God, its ludacris to think he does.

Did Kingdom Hall tell you to change the subject?

 

[Wrangler]

Is English your second language?

NWT John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God".

So, your theory is anytime anyone say 'my God' with another person around THAT other person is God? I bet there are a lot of gods running around throughout all of history.

 

[Jack]

So, your theory is anytime anyone say 'my God' with another person around THAT other person is God? I bet there are a lot of gods running around throughout all of history.

Wow! Kingdom Hall has stolen your brain. I didn't give a "theory". I QUOTED the Bible, even YOUR NWT!

 

[Wrangler]

Wow! Kingdom Hall has stolen your brain.

You know that I am not a JW, right? See AJ and I going at it here. I still love them as siblings in Christ. You?

 

[Jack]

You know that I am not a JW, right? See AJ and I going at it here. I still love them as siblings in Christ. You?

If your savior is the same as JW's you don't have a Savior.

Isaiah 43
11 I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.

 

[Jack]

NWT Isaiah 9 A son has been given to us; And the rulership will rest on his shoulder. His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Even Kingdom Hall told the Truth!

 

[tigger 2]

Is English your second language?

NWT John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God".

...........................................
1. John 20:28 is a statement by Thomas who had refused to believe that Jesus had been resurrected. His statement is a phrase without subject or verb and if subject and verb are to be supplied by the translator, it could read “you are My Lord and My God.” It is more likely, however, that it would be translated more like “My Lord and my God be praised.” This would mean that the phrase was meant as a doxology to the Father. Doxologies and other commonly used phrases frequently have words missing in the Greek text.

Many trinitarians say, instead, that this phrase by Thomas was an ADDRESS to Jesus. If true, this would mean that Thomas was naming Jesus by these words. However, it is rare that a person is addressed and not spoken to further. For example, “Then they said to him, ‘Lord, always give us this bread.’” (John 6:34).

However, there is actual proof that John did not intend this as an ADDRESS to Jesus.

You see, whenever John, and the other NT writers, used “Lord” as a noun of address, they used the form of the word known as a vocative. This means that if John understood Thomas’ word as an address to Jesus, he would write the word kurie. There are 33 uses of kurie in the Gospel of John alone. Here are a few of them: John 9:38; 11:3, 12, 21, 27, 32, 34, 39; 13:6, 9, 25, 36, 37; 14:5. (Compare these with an actual identification of the lord: “it is the lord [kurios],” John 21:7). Whereas when the NT writers intended it as a subject (“The Lord then answered him..." - Luke 13:15) they used the nominative form of the word (Kurios). Kurios is the form used at John 20:28.

So, the probability is that this incomplete phrase is a doxology to the Father.

Furthermore, if John had, somehow, understood Thomas’ statement as some trinitarians insist, he certainly would have provided some follow-up clarification and emphasis in his own comments.

Surely John would have shown Thomas prostrating himself before “God” and worshiping him (but he doesn’t!). So how does John summarize this incident?

- “But these were written that you may believe [Believe what? That Jesus is God? Here, then, is where it should have been written if John really believed such a thing:] that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.” - John 20:31, RSV. (Be sure to compare 1 John 5:5.)

Or, as the trinitarian The NIV Study Bible, Zondervan, 1985, states in a footnote for this scripture:

“This whole Gospel is written to show the truth of Jesus’ Messiahship and to present him as the Son of God, so that the readers may believe in him.”

Obviously, neither Jesus’ response, nor Thomas’ responses (before and after his statement at John 20:28), nor John’s summation of the event at 20:31 recognizes Thomas’ statement to mean that Jesus is the only true God!

See my study of this scripture here:

Examining the Trinity: MYGOD

 

[Wrangler]

Has been born 700 years before Christ. That's how you be knowing that is not a prophecy.

 

[Wrangler]

See my study of this scripture here

Pearls before swine.

 

[Jack]

...........................................
1. John 20:28 is a statement by Thomas who had refused to believe that Jesus had been resurrected. His statement is a phrase without subject or verb and if subject and verb are to be supplied by the translator, it could read “you are My Lord and My God.” It is more likely, however, that it would be translated more like “My Lord and my God be praised.” This would mean that the phrase was meant as a doxology to the Father. Doxologies and other commonly used phrases frequently have words missing in the Greek text.

Many trinitarians say, instead, that this phrase by Thomas was an ADDRESS to Jesus. If true, this would mean that Thomas was naming Jesus by these words. However, it is rare that a person is addressed and not spoken to further. For example, “Then they said to him, ‘Lord, always give us this bread.’” (John 6:34).

However, there is actual proof that John did not intend this as an ADDRESS to Jesus.

You see, whenever John, and the other NT writers, used “Lord” as a noun of address, they used the form of the word known as a vocative. This means that if John understood Thomas’ word as an address to Jesus, he would write the word kurie. There are 33 uses of kurie in the Gospel of John alone. Here are a few of them: John 9:38; 11:3, 12, 21, 27, 32, 34, 39; 13:6, 9, 25, 36, 37; 14:5. (Compare these with an actual identification of the lord: “it is the lord [kurios],” John 21:7). Whereas when the NT writers intended it as a subject (“The Lord then answered him..." - Luke 13:15) they used the nominative form of the word (Kurios). Kurios is the form used at John 20:28.

So, the probability is that this incomplete phrase is a doxology to the Father.

Furthermore, if John had, somehow, understood Thomas’ statement as some trinitarians insist, he certainly would have provided some follow-up clarification and emphasis in his own comments.

Surely John would have shown Thomas prostrating himself before “God” and worshiping him (but he doesn’t!). So how does John summarize this incident?

- “But these were written that you may believe [Believe what? That Jesus is God? Here, then, is where it should have been written if John really believed such a thing:] that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.” - John 20:31, RSV. (Be sure to compare 1 John 5:5.)

Or, as the trinitarian The NIV Study Bible, Zondervan, 1985, states in a footnote for this scripture:

“This whole Gospel is written to show the truth of Jesus’ Messiahship and to present him as the Son of God, so that the readers may believe in him.”

Obviously, neither Jesus’ response, nor Thomas’ responses (before and after his statement at John 20:28), nor John’s summation of the event at 20:31 recognizes Thomas’ statement to mean that Jesus is the only true God!

See my study of this scripture here:

Examining the Trinity: MYGOD

Kingdom Hall smokescreen!

 

[Jack]

Has been born 700 years before Christ. That's how you be knowing that is not a prophecy.

Totally evasive. Who was the Son born called Mighty God and Eternal Father? You don't have a clue.

 

[Wrangler]

Totally evasive. Who was the Son born called Mighty God and Eternal Father?

Not Jesus.