22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[David Boyer]

All believers will stand before it and rejoice when the book of life opened.

You possibly misunderstand me. The GWT is the first time many believers will be resurrected. And I would be careful about throwing around the claim of rejoicing.

 

[covenantee]

Matthew 24:29

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24:30

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
So was the sun dark after and all tribes on earth mourned, and we saw the son of man return!!??

No. Obviously. You are beating a dead horse.



Immediately after the Tribulation Jesus spoke about this also happens

Matthew 24:31

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

Remind us when this happened in 70AD? Ha

Sorry, your claims are not even comical so much as tragic.

The horse lives and leaps. Hi Ho.

The fall of Babylon
Isaiah 13:9-13
9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

The fall of Idumea
Isaiah 34:4-5
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

The fall of Egypt
Ezekiel 32:7-9
7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord God.
9 I will also vex the hearts of many people, when I shall bring thy destruction among the nations, into the countries which thou hast not known.

The fall of Jerusalem
Matthew 24:29
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
34 Verily I say unto you (His disciples), This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 

[jeffweeder]

You possibly misunderstand me. The GWT is the first time many believers will be resurrected. And I would be careful about throwing around the claim of rejoicing.

If your name is in the book you will rejoice. You will know within a twinkling of an eye if you have the right body like his glorious body.



51 Take notice! I tell you a mystery (a secret truth, an event decreed by the hidden purpose or counsel of God). We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed (transformed)

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the [sound of the] last trumpet call. For a trumpet will sound, and the dead [in Christ] will be raised imperishable (free and immune from decay), and we shall be changed (transformed).

 

[David Boyer]

If your name is in the book you will rejoice. You will know within a twinkling of an eye if you have the right body like his glorious body.



51 Take notice! I tell you a mystery (a secret truth, an event decreed by the hidden purpose or counsel of God). We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed (transformed)

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the [sound of the] last trumpet call. For a trumpet will sound, and the dead [in Christ] will be raised imperishable (free and immune from decay), and we shall be changed (transformed).

And what about your unsaved children/spouse/parents?
You may rejoice, but allow me a few tears.

 

[jeffweeder]

And what about your unsaved children/spouse/parents?
You may rejoice, but allow me a few tears.

I am with you David, my heart breaks at the thought. Glad God is the RIGHTEOUS judge and not me.
He will be wiping all tears from our eyes on that great and terrible day.

 

[dad]

It's only a guess, but I'm thinking the desolator is Rome, which is destroyed by Antichrist in the last days.

Yes I have heard that a lot and have leaned in that direction also. However, thinking about it, A better fit. Also a fit that would not be affected if the final empire was not some exact copy of the old Roman empire. And that is that the prince is Satan so his people also were the kingdom of Rome that destroyed Jerusalem. In other words Satan and his final leader he possesses are the prince that shall come.

 

[dad]

The horse lives and leaps. Hi Ho.

The fall of Babylon
Isaiah 13:9-13
9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

The fall of Idumea
Isaiah 34:4-5
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

The fall of Egypt
Ezekiel 32:7-9
7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord God.
9 I will also vex the hearts of many people, when I shall bring thy destruction among the nations, into the countries which thou hast not known.

The fall of Jerusalem
Matthew 24:29
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
34 Verily I say unto you (His disciples), This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Was there some point in this post or just galloping words?

 

[Truth7t7]

I toned it down not for the sake of anything false, but for the sake of being more appropriate for a forum, tks

So you stand by your "false claim" in a direct personal attack once again, I don't support "Darkness" as your slander claims

Jesus Is The Lord

dad post #4103 removed (to support your darkness)

dad Post #4103 before revision
The Great Tribulation is a certain time and event. There are no others. Your attempts at belittling the truth to support your darkness are exposed.

 

[covenantee]

Was there some point in this post or just galloping words?

If you can't understand it, just leave it for those who can.

 

[WPM]

Verse 1... the perspective of this chapter is from Earth. Simple reading.

Not so. You know that. You have nothing to support your thesis.

 

[WPM]

I don't recall ruling with Jesus for a thousand years? I don't recall men dying at 1000 years of age and being considered children? I don't recall Jesus having returned? Work on that.

You attribute so much to this millennial period that is not in Revelation 20

 

[WPM]

Can you show another Scripture that corroborates this 490 year period other than Daniel 9, that you claim is different than the words we do read in the text? Gabriel did not call it a congruent 70 weeks. Gabriel split it up into 7 weeks and 62 weeks. Your point is with Gabriel not those who say it says 7 weeks and 62 weeks. Who uses the phrase 7 and 62 instead of 69? Your point would stand if it only mentioned 69 weeks, but it does not. It notes the time as 7 and 62.

Daniel 9 is the OT equivalent of Revelation 20 that people tend to argue over "made up facts" and private opinions.

The breaks simply outline key markers on the journey.

 

[Truth7t7]

All believers will stand before it and rejoice when the book of life opened.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

 

[WPM]

Why? It happened in the 5th century BC. Of course there was 49 years and then 434 years. That is not even a futurist issue.

That is just arguing about a past that cannot be changed, nor even makes any sense to change what Scripture clearly points out.

No, it shows the divisions are not gaps but simply markers along the harmonious journey.

 

[dad]

So you stand by your "false claim" in a direct personal attack once again, I don't support "Darkness" as your slander claims

Jesus Is The Lord

dad post #4103 removed (to support your darkness)

dad Post #4103 before revision
The Great Tribulation is a certain time and event. There are no others. Your attempts at belittling the truth to support your darkness are exposed.

Either something is light or dark. What you posted was not light.

 

[dad]

If you can't understand it, just leave it for those who can.

If anyone comprehends your confused utterances perhaps they have the wherewithal to articulate. Thanks

 

[dad]

You attribute so much to this millennial period that is not in Revelation 20

Why would something need to be in a certain chapter you pick?

 

[WPM]

Why would something need to be in a certain chapter you pick?

It is the only chapter you have, and, it does say what you say.

 

[Truth7t7]

Either something is light or dark. What you posted was not light.

Your continued false claims that I support darkness is pure slander, I request that you stop the false claims in slander

Jesus Is The Lord

dad post #4103 removed (to support your darkness)

dad Post #4103 before revision
The Great Tribulation is a certain time and event. There are no others. Your attempts at belittling the truth to support your darkness are exposed.

 

[Truth7t7]

Why would something need to be in a certain chapter you pick?

Because your claims of a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth are found no place in scripture

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)