22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[WPM]

There is no everlasting righteousness there. Neither will we yet see a holy place with an abomination there! You are not even warm.

No, that happened at the First Advent. Psalms 119:137-138, 142 outlines, “Righteous art thou, O LORD, and upright are thy judgments. Thy testimonies that thou hast commanded are righteous and very faithful … Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.”

Christ is the ultimate personification and manifestation of everlasting righteousness. When he came to this earth, He brought “everlasting righteousness” to this sin-cursed world. He was the light in the midst of darkness. Those sinners who embrace Him experience “everlasting righteousness” and become a conduit for His Spirit to reveal Christ (the light of the world) through.

Christ has expressly fulfilled every demand that the Father made of Him in His sinless life, His atoning death and His glorious resurrection. A question that should be considered is: Was that righteousness secured through Christ’s death “everlasting” as predicted or temporal?

2 Corinthians 9:9 addresses our query, saying, “As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.”

The righteousness that flowed from the Cross is expressly “remaineth for ever.” It is eternal in nature and it is effectual in the lives of the redeemed of God. This reading clearly and concisely confirms, as predicted in Daniel 9 of His first Advent, that the righteousness that Christ secured was assuredly “everlasting righteousness,” not temporal as some would try and argue. This is in total keeping with the eternal character of the kingdom He ushered in and the spiritual life that the believer experiences when they encounter Christ. We can therefore deduce, the life within the believer is as eternal as God is.

The great redemption chapter of Isaiah 53 prophesied of Christ in Isaiah 53:11-12: "He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities."

Our sin was imputed to Christ; His righteousness was imputed to us. Christ’s perfect once all-sufficient self-sacrifice secured a full, real and perfect redemption for his own. 2 Corinthians 5:21 further says, “for he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”

The righteousness that the believer owns is not his own it is imputed (or put into him) of Christ. Every other religion in the world depends on their own self-righteousness – we depend totally on Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:21: "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made (or become) the righteousness of God in him."

Our sin was imputed or accounted to Christ; His righteousness was imputed or accounted to us! God's "righteousness" has always been "everlasting righteousness" but for man to experience that personally required Calvary. There, our sin was attributed to Jesus and there His "everlasting righteousness" was attributed to us. Up until then, the penalty for our sin had not been paid. Man had not entered into the eternal reality of imputed righteousness. The cross triggered that thus making that a current reality (Daniel 9:24).

Romans 5:19-21 states: “For as by one man's disobedience many were made (or kathistemi or designated) sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made (or kathistemi or designated) righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.”

Experiencing God’s “righteousness” which we know is “everlasting righteousness” is something that the New Testament tells us occurs in this age. The good news for us is:

· Jesus Christ volunteered to come to earth and live a perfect life as our substitute. Basically, He lived the life that we could never live on our behalf.
· He also agreed to take our penalty in full, so that we would never have to pay for it.
· For us it to take a hold of this incredible benefit He simply asked for us to surrender our sin to Him and receive His forgiveness, His perfect righteousness, and eternal life.

All our legal or covenant responsibilities were placed upon Christ, and all His legal or covenant merits were applied to us. This work is the eternal basis of our justification by faith.

In the same what that Jesus was “made sin” (even though He was sinless), enduring the full legal punishment that was due to us, so we are made the “made the righteousness of God” even though we still struggle with indwelling sin.

Please see here: Jesus was “made sin” for us; however, He didn't become a sinner. It was a legal act. He took what was due to us. Equally, we are “made the righteousness of God” even though we have not yet become perfect. This too is a legal act. He received what belonged to us, we received what belong to Him.

1 Peter 2:2-4 informs us that Christ, “his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."

If you are looking to anything other than Jesus and His shed blood at the cross for your salvation you are missing it.

 

[WPM]

Not so fast. The phrase is `Then comes the end,` means a setting out to a conclusion or goal. That is why it says `He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.` (1 Cor. 15: 25) It is a PROCESS.

The restoration of all things by the Lord is a process over time -

1. Restoration of rulership in the third heaven. (Rev. 4)
2. Restoration of rulership over the nations. (Rev. 11: 17, Rev. 25: 31)
3. Restoration of rulership over Israel. (Isa. 60: 20, Zech. 12: 7 - 10, Ez. 37: 24 & 25, Micah 4: 1 - 3)
4. Restoration of rulership in every realm - the third heaven, the Universe and the new earth. (Rev. 3: 21, Heb. 11: 13 - 16, Rev. 21: 24, Gen. 12: 2, Isa. 66: 22)

Not so! That is a modern Premil invention. The Messiah has come. He has introduced His kingdom. It is a heavenly kingdom. The old is gone! He is reigning over His enemies now at the right hand of majesty. All the ECFs agreed with that - Chiliast and Amil.

Most Premillennialists teach that Christ’s real purpose for coming to this earth was to establish an earthly Jewish theocratic kingdom. They say that this was to be a political kingdom centered in Jerusalem where Christ would have ruled over a dominant Israel and exercised complete control over the nations of the earth. Unfortunately, they make the exact same mistake that the Pharisees made 2000 years ago with their misguided obsession with (1) racial favoritism, (2) earthly real estate and (3) the idea of a dictatorial Messiah reigning over the Gentile nations with a rod of iron. Because of their flawed perception of the kingdom, the Pharisees ended up rejecting Christ.

When Christ appeared at His first advent, many religious Jews imagined the Messiah would introduce some authoritarian Zionistic kingdom, restore Israel’s ancient borders, reinstate the then defunct earthly throne of Israel and reign victorious over the house of Israel. They thought the anointed One would be a great military leader that would confront and overcome Israel’s enemies, freeing them from foreign domination, starting with the Romans.

The Jewish expectation was a literal visible territorial administrative kingdom of which the warrior-like liberator would triumphantly rule. This theology fitted with the world view of these religious apostates, who advocated ethnic division and racial dominance. They believed that the appearance of Messiah would usher in a period of natural and spiritual prosperity for Israel, a time where the nations would be brought into wholesale subjugation. This would be a time of historic and unprecedented justice and peace. Their obsession with the natural, earthly and transient instead of the spiritual, heavenly and eternal caused them to reject Christ and nail Him as an impostor to a tree.

Dispensationalists say that this whole divine arrangement was thwarted by the Jews due to their rejection of Jesus. This in turn resulted in the whole Messianic kingdom being put on hold until Christ returns to the sky to rescue His elect, whereupon this kingdom will be reoffered to Israel. After 7 years of tribulation, Israel is said to finally accept Christ, whereupon a 3rd coming of Christ will occur, this time He comes to the ground where He will set up this earthly kingdom that was formerly rejected 2000 years ago.

The only problem is: (1) they promote a kingdom that is totally unknown to the New Testament pages. (2) They advance a faulty kingdom that is identical to that advocated by the delusional Pharisees, and which proved to be fictional.

Sadly, Dispensationalists share many of the old covenant Pharisaical expectations. They speak much about a future Davidic kingdom and argue for its return in a future millennium after the second coming. But they fail to see that the old covenant earthly kings of Israel were not God’s plan, but, rather, a rebellious invention of man designed to mimic the heathen nations around them. While God permitted them, they only served as an imperfect distorted type of the perfect heavenly King who reigns today in heavenly Jerusalem.

 

[WPM]

Not so fast. The phrase is `Then comes the end,` means a setting out to a conclusion or goal. That is why it says `He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.` (1 Cor. 15: 25) It is a PROCESS.

The restoration of all things by the Lord is a process over time -

1. Restoration of rulership in the third heaven. (Rev. 4)
2. Restoration of rulership over the nations. (Rev. 11: 17, Rev. 25: 31)
3. Restoration of rulership over Israel. (Isa. 60: 20, Zech. 12: 7 - 10, Ez. 37: 24 & 25, Micah 4: 1 - 3)
4. Restoration of rulership in every realm - the third heaven, the Universe and the new earth. (Rev. 3: 21, Heb. 11: 13 - 16, Rev. 21: 24, Gen. 12: 2, Isa. 66: 22)

You are totally not getting the spiritual nature of the kingdom of God today. You really need to read up on the New Testament and see what Jesus actually described instead of what you've been taught. Entering in to that spiritual kingdom in this life brings an immediate realization in the ‘here and now’ and on this earth of true “righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost."

Jesus said in Luke 17:21: “The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”

The kingdom of God exists wherever the king – the Lord Jesus Christ – exercises His spiritual jurisdiction. It is a spiritual kingdom and incorporates the whole domain over-which the Lord Jesus Christ exercises His divine kingship, dominion and intimate rule. It relates to all those who belong to His body. His kingdom embodies all those who possess the indwelling Holy Spirit – those who are real believers. Christ’s kingdom is therefore found wherever there are citizens of that kingdom.

The Lord revealed in this passage that the kingdom of God – His kingdom – was not a literal earthly domain neither could it be viewed like other kingdoms with their outward splendor, impressive power and magnitude. It is, rather, a spiritual kingdom, which can only be spiritually entered.

Jesus said in John 18:36, “My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”

Christ couldn’t have made it clearer. This expectation – of a literal visible territorial political kingdom – was wrong. It exposed the ignorance which controlled the Jews. They had a defective perception of the nature of God’s kingdom and the manner in which it would appear.

The kingdom of God that Christ introduced was of a spiritual nature. This absolutely confounded the Pharisees and their misguided earthly carnal concept of the Messianic kingdom.

As it says in Ephesians 6:12, “we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places”

We fight an invisible enemy. He works in secret. He has to. If he was visible we would immediately recognize him. That is not that he does not work in and through humans, he does.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5 says, “For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.”

To enter into spiritual victory you must pull down everything that is not of God and that does not accord with His Word. Every doubt, every fear, every sin, every hurt, every judgmental thought and every bit of unforgiveness must be evicted. The strongholds must be identified and then pulled down. If they are allowed to remain they will make you a victim instead of a victor. Most of the arrows are imaginary and fanciful. If that is so: he makes the illusion look real. The words translated here “imaginations” is the Greek word logismos (log-is-mos') meaning calculation or reasoning.

Ephesians 6:11 instructs the Christian to “Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.” Verse 13 continues on the same vein, “take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.” In Ephesians 6:17 you will find 6 bits of armour for the believer. But “the sword of the Spirit” (the Word of God) is the only offensive part of the Christian armoury.

2 Timothy 2:3-4 declares, “endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.”

Bro/sis, you are a soldier in an army. You are on active duty. If you are going to be impactful then you are going to have to endure hardness! You are to have to take a few punches. You are going to be rejected. You are going to experience warfare. You are going to fight a dark kingdom. You are going to be put in harm’s way. You will feel resistance.

But Paul gives us sound advice in 1 Timothy 6:12 “Fight the good fight of faith.”

He directs us in 1 Timothy 1:18 “war a good warfare.”

We are not fighting a physical battle with physical weapons but rather a spiritual battle with spiritual weapons.

 

[covenantee]

He was wrong, not even close. That was not when all things written were fulfilled. Not even a serious position to promote.

"It was then common to see cities filled with dead bodies, still lying unburied, and those of old men, mixed with infants, all dead, and scattered about together; women also lay amongst them, without any covering for their nakedness: you might then see the whole province full of inexpressible calamities, while the dread of still more barbarous practices which were threatened was every where greater than what had been already perpetrated." (Wars of the Jews II,18.2)

Why, that wasn't tribulation at all. That was a Sunday School picnic. Don't you wish you could have been there?

 

[Timtofly]

When it comes to this scene of time, Scripture makes clear that it is not going to last forever. It shows that this current fallen corrupted realm has an expiration date. Just like there was a beginning to this earth, time, human life, and creation, there will equally be an end.

Then the NHNE in Revelation 21 is not eternity nor even eternal either. It has a beginning, and by your logic it has to have an end as well.


When are you going to figure out the length of this current creation before declaring eternity is an age that will soon start? Eternity is outside of any creation humans will be involved in. The parts of creation that God deals with has an eternal nature where concepts are not confined to time, but will exist eternally in all creations.

If there have been past creations, according to God's Word, memory of such is wiped away. Even in the Day of the Lord, humans will no longer remember sin, a sin nature, nor even Satan. Yet you deny that as given in Scripture.

You refuse to see that Peter in 2 Peter 3 is giving us the length of a Day with the Lord. Even if the Day of the Lord starts out with a big bang event, it is still current creation, because Satan is allowed one more little season in this current creation, before the next reality can start. Heaven and earth do not flee away at the Second Coming. The failure to see that is why this thread is 90% merely your opinion. And you all who teach a false post trib Second Coming enforce that erroneous view of private opinion.

The Second Coming is the thief in the night moment that prepares earth for the Day of the Lord. It is the same road with a bunch of snow on it. The plow is the turbulence that clears off the snow, but leaves a perfect road surface after the plow gows through. The final harvest is that part where the snow is being thrown several feet, and Jesus is on earth during that time of final harvest. Just like the plow is literally on the road clearing off the snow. Only after the Millennium reign will the road no longer exist. The earth of current creation will be cleared of Adam's punishment, including all on earth will have permanent incorruptible physical bodies. They will fill the earth for 1,000 years as God originally planned this creation to be.

Adam's dead corruptible flesh was given 6,000 years of sin, death, and toil of a corrupted earth. This last day of current creation will belong to the Lord. Jesus will rule and then hand back creation to God. Only then will this creation be complete. Nothing pointed out in this post contradicts Scripture. Most of your 22 reasons do not even make Scriptural sense, and thus only your opinion.

 

[WPM]

You refuse to see that Peter in 2 Peter 3 is giving us the length of a Day with the Lord. Even if the Day of the Lord starts out with a big bang event, it is still current creation, because Satan is allowed one more little season in this current creation, before the next reality can start. Heaven and earth do not flee away at the Second Coming. The failure to see that is why this thread is 90% merely your opinion. And you all who teach a false post trib Second Coming enforce that erroneous view of private opinion.

Where in the Bible does it teach that the day of the Lord is exactly 1000 years?

The Second Coming is the thief in the night moment that prepares earth for the Day of the Lord. It is the same road with a bunch of snow on it. The plow is the turbulence that clears off the snow, but leaves a perfect road surface after the plow gows through. The final harvest is that part where the snow is being thrown several feet, and Jesus is on earth during that time of final harvest. Just like the plow is literally on the road clearing off the snow. Only after the Millennium reign will the road no longer exist. The earth of current creation will be cleared of Adam's punishment, including all on earth will have permanent incorruptible physical bodies. They will fill the earth for 1,000 years as God originally planned this creation to be.

Adam's dead corruptible flesh was given 6,000 years of sin, death, and toil of a corrupted earth. This last day of current creation will belong to the Lord. Jesus will rule and then hand back creation to God. Only then will this creation be complete. Nothing pointed out in this post contradicts Scripture. Most of your 22 reasons do not even make Scriptural sense, and thus only your opinion.

So, we are now in 6022? That blows apart your mistaken theory. You now believe we are in the millennium?

 

[Timtofly]

He poured out the desolation in AD70, and it remain so until the second coming.

Then your 70th week is not completed. There is only desolation, and none of the 6 promises.

You cannot have both desolation and blessing at the same time.

 

[WPM]

Then your 70th week is not completed. There is only desolation, and none of the 6 promises.

You cannot have both desolation and blessing at the same time.

Desolation of their temple was the result of their foolish rejecting of Christ.

 

[dad]

Not in your beliefs. This is not the end of this corrupt world or of time in Premil. You add another age on this is a rerun of this age. Sin and sinners, dying and crying, deceit and decay grow.

No idea what you are talking about.

 

[dad]

How about furnishing us with Scripture.

Daniel 12:11

And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 

[David Boyer]

The Bible doesn't teach global destruction after Jesus returns. The book of Revelation speaks about two distinct times of destruction, the trumpets and the vials. Jesus comes at the Seventh Trumpet, not the Seventh vial.

Yes it does.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

But not for 1000 years after Christs return.

 

[dad]

No, that happened at the First Advent. Psalms 119:137-138, 142 outlines, “Righteous art thou, O LORD, and upright are thy judgments. Thy testimonies that thou hast commanded are righteous and very faithful … Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.”

God is righteous but He is also in heaven. The issue is when everlasting righteousness is BROUGHT in to earth.

Christ is the ultimate personification and manifestation of everlasting righteousness. When he came to this earth, He brought “everlasting righteousness” to this sin-cursed world.

No. He brought it to as many as believed. Only when He returns will it be brought to earth.

2 Corinthians 9:9 addresses our query, saying, “As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.”

No one asked if He is righteous or whether it remains. The issue is when He brings it to the planet. We know when that is and all abouut the abomination just before and how long etc etc.

The great redemption chapter of Isaiah 53 prophesied of Christ in Isaiah 53:11-12: "He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities."

See the 'many' there? Get it yet?

2 Corinthians 5:21: "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made (or become) the righteousness of God in him."

Yes it is in Him, and where is He now!?

Romans 5:19-21 states: “For as by one man's disobedience many were made (or kathistemi or designated) sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made (or kathistemi or designated) righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.”

See the many there again? get it yet?

1 Peter 2:2-4 informs us that Christ, “his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."

See the 'we'? Get it yet?

 

[dad]

"It was then common to see cities filled with dead bodies, still lying unburied, and those of old men, mixed with infants, all dead, and scattered about together; women also lay amongst them, without any covering for their nakedness: you might then see the whole province full of inexpressible calamities, while the dread of still more barbarous practices which were threatened was every where greater than what had been already perpetrated." (Wars of the Jews II,18.2)

Why, that wasn't tribulation at all. That was a Sunday School picnic. Don't you wish you could have been there?

Big deal it was also common in Syria etc etc. All you have here is a non believer historian yapping about one time in history. (And I am not sure he was highly favored among Jewish people according to one article I read recently)

You forgot to post where he says that this was the abomination or tribulation?? Ha

 

[covenantee]

Big deal it was also common in Syria etc etc.

Link/paste your source.

 

[WPM]

No idea what you are talking about.

I am talking about the Premil millennium. It comes (in your thinking) after the consummation, which is a total contradiction in terms. That is why it is unbiblical.

 

[WPM]

God is righteous but He is also in heaven. The issue is when everlasting righteousness is BROUGHT in to earth.

You need to sort out your HTML.

You do not seem to have any grasp of imputed righteousness or eternal life. These are experienced upon salvation. This is what Christ brought to this cursed world. The "righteousness" He gives us "is an everlasting righteousness." This is the only righteousness that Christ provides. Reject that and you miss the boat! The alternative is self-righteousness. You choose which you want to embrace.

 

[WPM]

Yes it does.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

But not for 1000 years after Christs return.

Yes, Rev 21:1 is the second coming. 2 Peter 3:3-15 tells us: “there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming (parousia)? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation.”

We glean a lot of helpful detail here relating to what happens to the creature and creation when Jesus comes, and what immediately follows. If we are able to divorce ourselves from what we have been taught, we are looking at a very climactic picture.

• Unquestionably, the focus of this message is directed to the end-time-cynics who question God.
• These fools question God keeping His “promise.” What promise? It is “the promise of his coming.”
• The scorn and derision of these foolish last days scoffers and mockers are directed specifically towards the reality and occurrence of Christ’s coming.
• It is not in any way concentrated upon a supposed group of ‘millennial scoffers’ 1,000 years later. If this is supposed to be a collection of ‘millennial scoffers’ 1,000 years after the second coming, why would they be saying, “Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation”? Such a notion is a complete absurdity as Christ’s coming (or parousia) is long past.
• This text shows us that today is the only day of salvation. Peter responds to the mockers scoffing at the apparent delay in Christ's return: “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). Romans 2:4 reaffirms that salvation is limited to this side of the second coming.
• The actual wrath described by the Holy Spirit comes suddenly and unexpectedly upon these foolish last days scoffers and mockers. There is no escape. They are the recipients of total destruction.
• We also see in this reading that “the day of the Lord will arrive (or heko) as a thief in the night; in the which (en heé)” or literally translated “in which” (the word “the” being absent from the original). The detail described arrives with Jesus.
• What happens to creation when Jesus arrives? 1. The heavens shall pass away / perish with a great noise. 2. The elements shall be ‘loosed by being set on fire’, 3. The earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly. 4. The works that are within the earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly. The Premillennialist claims to be a literalist, so there is no spiritualization that can explain this away. It is water-tight.
• The description of the destruction could not be more comprehensive. It is undoubtedly the end. It involves wholesale and unavoidable annihilation for the wicked. It embraces the full gamut of fallen creation.
• What is this replaced with? A future millennium filled with sin and sinners, crying and dying? No. The Holy Spirit tells us that it the “new heavens and a new earth” that follows Christ’s return.
• The arrival of the “new heavens and a new earth” are here significantly connected to “his promise.”
• The Holy Spirit then assures the last days elect that their lot is not wrath or destruction. They experience the new heavens and new earth at His appearing.

 

[David Boyer]

Yes, Rev 21:1 is the second coming. 2 Peter 3:3-15 tells us: “there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming (parousia)? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation.”

We glean a lot of helpful detail here relating to what happens to the creature and creation when Jesus comes, and what immediately follows. If we are able to divorce ourselves from what we have been taught, we are looking at a very climactic picture.

• Unquestionably, the focus of this message is directed to the end-time-cynics who question God.
• These fools question God keeping His “promise.” What promise? It is “the promise of his coming.”
• The scorn and derision of these foolish last days scoffers and mockers are directed specifically towards the reality and occurrence of Christ’s coming.
• It is not in any way concentrated upon a supposed group of ‘millennial scoffers’ 1,000 years later. If this is supposed to be a collection of ‘millennial scoffers’ 1,000 years after the second coming, why would they be saying, “Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation”? Such a notion is a complete absurdity as Christ’s coming (or parousia) is long past.
• This text shows us that today is the only day of salvation. Peter responds to the mockers scoffing at the apparent delay in Christ's return: “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). Romans 2:4 reaffirms that salvation is limited to this side of the second coming.
• The actual wrath described by the Holy Spirit comes suddenly and unexpectedly upon these foolish last days scoffers and mockers. There is no escape. They are the recipients of total destruction.
• We also see in this reading that “the day of the Lord will arrive (or heko) as a thief in the night; in the which (en heé)” or literally translated “in which” (the word “the” being absent from the original). The detail described arrives with Jesus.
• What happens to creation when Jesus arrives? 1. The heavens shall pass away / perish with a great noise. 2. The elements shall be ‘loosed by being set on fire’, 3. The earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly. 4. The works that are within the earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly. The Premillennialist claims to be a literalist, so there is no spiritualization that can explain this away. It is water-tight.
• The description of the destruction could not be more comprehensive. It is undoubtedly the end. It involves wholesale and unavoidable annihilation for the wicked. It embraces the full gamut of fallen creation.
• What is this replaced with? A future millennium filled with sin and sinners, crying and dying? No. The Holy Spirit tells us that it the “new heavens and a new earth” that follows Christ’s return.
• The arrival of the “new heavens and a new earth” are here significantly connected to “his promise.”
• The Holy Spirit then assures the last days elect that their lot is not wrath or destruction. They experience the new heavens and new earth at His appearing.

If Rev 21:1 is the second coming then why is Christ reigning(on Earth) in Rev 20?

 

[WPM]

If Rev 21:1 is the second coming then why is Christ reigning in Rev 20?

It is the last of 7 recaps. It takes us back to the first resurrection 2000 years ago and the enlightenment of the Gentiles.

 

[David Boyer]

It is the last of 7 recaps. It takes us back to the first resurrection 2000 years ago and the enlightenment of the Gentiles.

I call BS. Chapter and Verse references that say that Chapter 20 is just a recap.
No reading of Chapter 20 would back you up on that statement without seriously twisting the scripture.
If it goes back 2000 years... why did Christ lie to John and show him only 1000?