22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Spiritual Israelite]

I find it sad,that you reject simple biblical truth before your eyes, simple and very easy to understand

If it's so simple then why can't you support your belief in a simple and very easy to understand way? You can't. That is obvious. Instead, you come across like a child who has no idea how to form a coherent argument and who can do nothing but repeat the same words over and over again.

"Biblical Truth" before your eyes, your claim of 66-70AD fulfillment of Daniel's AOD is Pinocchio's nose is growing again

Your childish way of speaking does nothing but make it impossible to take you seriously about this. Daniel 9:26 talks about the city and the sanctuary being destroyed. That happened in 70 AD. Do you disagree that Jerusalem and its temple buildings were destroyed in 70 AD? If so, when else were they destroyed?

Jesus very specifically said that Jerusalem and its temple buildings would be destroyed (Luke 19:41-44, Matt 24:1-2, Mark 13:1-2, Luke 21:5-6) and they were destroyed just as He said they would be. Why do you deny that? Historical documents indicate that happened in 70 AD. Regardless of when, it obviously did happen at some point since the temple buildings are clearly not there anymore. To act as if that event was not prophesied in scripture makes a mockery out of Daniel 9:26 and even out of Jesus Himself because He plainly stated that the temple buildings standing at that time would be destroyed.

 

[Truth7t7]

Impossible!

1. The beast has been around for over 2000 years (Revelation 17:8, Revelation 17:11-13, 1 John 2:18-23, 1 John 4:1-3, 5-6, 2 John 1:7, and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-13). No man has lived that long on earth. Only a wicked spirit or an evil empire could possibly fulfil that portrayal.
2. How can a literal human being be literally “in them that perish” (2 Thessalonians 2:10)? This would suggest him being in every single unsaved person. Only a spirit can do that.
3. The beast carries the allegiance of all the non-elect. No single human being has or ever or will possess that wholesale allegiance. Only a broader worldly spirit enjoys all the loyalty of the wicked.
4. There is nowhere in Scripture that shows human beings in the abyss (Luke 8:31, Romans 10:7, Revelation 9:1, 2, 11, 11:7, 17:8, and 20:1, 3). Any time it is mentioned, it is shown to be the exclusive abode of Satan and his demons.
5. What man possesses 7 heads? These describe 7 wicked kingdoms in history with 7 kings ruling over them. No man can possibly satisfy that.
6. According to the original Greek, and in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of “man,” not the number of “a man.”
7. Finally, what human being in history lives in, and rises up out of, the sea at the end? Such an idea is non-sensical.

Scripture in harmony teaches the bad guy of Daniel Chapter 7:10-11 & 9:27, also Revelation 19:20 will be present on earth at the "Future" second coming and consummation, and this bad guy has a body that will be cast alive in the the lake of fire

The Beast Has A Literal Body As Seen Below

Daniel 7:10-11KJV
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

(The Beast) will be a future individual human man, described by personal pronouns He, His, Him,

How does this answer my question of what it means when it says the beast "was, and is not"? Why are you avoiding answering that question? It must be because you have no answer for it. Can you just acknowledge that instead of insisting that the beast is a man? If the beast is a man then he would be very old by now because he already "was" before John wrote the book and at that time he "is not". What does that mean? If you don't know, then just say so.

 

[WPM]

Scripture in harmony teaches the bad guy of Daniel Chapter 7:10-11 & 9:27, also Revelation 19:20 will be present on earth at the "Future" second coming and consummation, and this bad guy has a body that will be cast alive in the the lake of fire

The Beast Has A Literal Body As Seen Below

Daniel 7:10-11KJV
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

You seem incapable of addressing those who rebut you. You prefer your cut-and-pastes. That is a convenient trait to have whenever your theology is exposed. I refer you back to my avoided posts. When you read Scripture (in Daniel and Revelation) re the beast it is figurative language, something you do not seem to understand.

 

[Truth7t7]

How does this answer my question of what it means when it says the beast "was, and is not"? Why are you avoiding answering that question? It must be because you have no answer for it. Can you just acknowledge that instead of insisting that the beast is a man? If the beast is a man then he would be very old by now because he already "was" before John wrote the book and at that time he "is not". What does that mean? If you don't know, then just say so.

John's "The Beast" is future, and will be living at the second coming and final Judgement as you have been shown several times

Daniel 7:10-11KJV
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[covenantee]

Scripture in harmony teaches the bad guy of Daniel Chapter 7:10-11 & 9:27, also Revelation 19:20 will be present on earth at the "Future" second coming and consummation, and this bad guy has a body that will be cast alive in the the lake of fire

The Beast Has A Literal Body As Seen Below

Daniel 7:10-11KJV
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

What is the grammatical antecedent of the "he's" in Daniel 9:27?

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Truth7t7]

You seem incapable of addressing those who rebut you. You prefer your cut-and-pastes. That is a convenient trait to have whenever your theology is exposed. I refer you back to my avoided posts. When you read Scripture (in Daniel and Revelation) re the beast it is figurative language, something you do not seem to understand.

Fact is, you haven't provided biblical truth in your post, you espouse the standard "Preterist" reformed teachings in 66-70AD fulfillment regarding Daniel's AOD

"Biblical Truth" before your eyes, your claim of 66-70AD fulfillment of Daniel's AOD is Pinocchio's nose is growing again

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[dad]

Again, no scriptural support from you. It's impossible to take you seriously.

When He rules, we will also. Satan will be bound. Many people will be judged. The tribulation will be over and the AntiChrist disposed of..etc etc. There is no possibility any of that has already happened.

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus very specifically said that Jerusalem and its temple buildings would be destroyed (Luke 19:41-44, Matt 24:1-2, Mark 13:1-2, Luke 21:5-6) and they were destroyed just as He said they would be. Why do you deny that? Historical documents indicate that happened in 70 AD. Regardless of when, it obviously did happen at some point since the temple buildings are clearly not there anymore. To act as if that event was not prophesied in scripture makes a mockery out of Daniel 9:26 and even out of Jesus Himself because He plainly stated that the temple buildings standing at that time would be destroyed.

"Yes" John's account clearly describes "The Temple" in question, it clearly describes the temple destroyed was the Lord's "Body", read verse 21 again and again, it's not going away

As shown, Jesus was speaking of the temple of his "Body" being destroyed

When Jesus died and gave up the ghost, the veil in the holy place was rent, it was removed in the spiritual not one stone upon another "Gone"

It appears that you will be in the company of the pharisees that believe it was a temple that took 46 years to build, smiles!

John's account of the temple visit

Jesus spoke of a symbolic destruction of the temple, represented by his body on the cross of Calvary

"But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body" Not A Literal Temple In Jerusalem That Took 46 Years To Build, Read It Again And Again "Before Your Eyes"!

It Appears That You Are Bound By Your "Preterist" Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[covenantee]

Fact is, you haven't provided biblical truth in your post, you espouse the standard "Preterist" reformed teachings in 66-70AD fulfillment regarding Daniel's AOD

"Biblical Truth" before your eyes, your claim of 66-70AD fulfillment of Daniel's AOD is Pinocchio's nose is growing again

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Seems you're ignoring this, so here's another chance.

What is the grammatical antecedent of the "he's" in Daniel 9:27?

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[WPM]

Fact is, you haven't provided biblical truth in your post, you espouse the standard "Preterist" reformed teachings in 66-70AD fulfillment regarding Daniel's AOD

"Biblical Truth" before your eyes, your claim of 66-70AD fulfillment of Daniel's AOD is Pinocchio's nose is growing again

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

It is pointless engaging with you. You refuse to address the arguments of others. Cut-and-paste is all you have. It is like interacting with a robot.

 

[WPM]

John's "The Beast" is future, and will be living at the second coming and final Judgement as you have been shown several times

Daniel 7:10-11KJV
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

I showed you a list of watertight proofs why this cannot be a single man and you ducked around all of them. You have to. To address it would force you to abandon your Dispy beliefs.

 

[Truth7t7]

Seems you're ignoring this, so here's another chance.

What is the grammatical antecedent of the "he's" in Daniel 9:27?

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I'm waiting in suspense for your interpretation?

 

[Truth7t7]

I showed you a list of watertight proofs why this cannot be a single man and you ducked around all of them. You have to. To address it would force you to abandon your Dispy beliefs.

Your preterist watertight proofs are pre-determined imagination, just like a Pre-Trib Rapture and Millennial Kingdom on this earth are watertight imaginations, you are bound by preterist reformed eschatology, let it go

I don't follow Darby or Scofield, just biblical truth, and it's not found in your Preterist reformed eschatology that you believe and promote

Fact is, you haven't provided biblical truth in your post, you espouse the standard "Preterist" reformed teachings in 66-70AD fulfillment regarding Daniel's AOD

"Biblical Truth" before your eyes, your claim of 66-70AD fulfillment of Daniel's AOD is Pinocchio's nose is growing again

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Truth7t7]

It is pointless engaging with you. You refuse to address the arguments of others. Cut-and-paste is all you have. It is like interacting with a robot.

You have no argument, you espouse the standard preterist reformed eschatology

Daniel's AOD is future,the bad guy will be present on earth making desolation to the very end or consummation, you aren't going to change the facts before your eyes, read it again and again, scripture silences your preterist reformed eschatology claims

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[covenantee]

I'm waiting in suspense for your interpretation

It is the prince in verse 26.

Your turn. Don't be afraid, now.

 

[WPM]

You have no argument, you espouse the standard preterist reformed eschatology

Daniel's AOD is future,the bad guy will be present on earth making desolation to the very end or consummation, you aren't going to change the facts before your eyes, read it again and again, scripture silences your preterist reformed eschatology claims

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

You have cut-and-pasted a lot of this 67 times. There should be a rule against that. We might as well deal with a robot. We might actually get more variety, interaction and sense from one of them.

 

[Truth7t7]

It is the prince in verse 26.

Your turn. Don't be afraid, now.

Who is "the prince"?

 

[covenantee]

Who is "the prince"?

Not so fast. Do you agree that the grammatical antecedent of the "he's" in verse 27 is the prince in verse 26?

 

[Truth7t7]

You have cut-and-pasted a lot of this 67 times. There should be a rule against that. We might as well deal with a robot. We actually get more variety and sense from one of them.

The scripture doesn't change, will the bad guy be present on earth until the future consummation 100% "YES"!!!

It surely didn't take place in your preterist reformed eschatology in 66-70AD that you promote and claim, it's a future event unfulfilled, it's that simple, read it again and again

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.