For those who think Christ is not God.
- Thread starter Johann
- Start date
-
- Tags
- triune godhead
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
MrBebe
Active Member
- Sep 8, 2012
- 155
- 166
- 43
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Philippines
Good day,
Nowhere in the whole chapters of the two verses you quoted or in the entire Bible states that God's Holy Spirit is a bride. Even if the verses you quoted are contextually joined together, still, it doesn't say or imply that the Holy Spirit is a bride.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Your idea that you are the bride of your brother Jesus, is deeply rooted in RCC doctrine, just as the trinity notion is.
Well, it's probably more accurate to say that for centuries the RCC has identified the Church itself as the bride of Christ. Probably Eph. 5:22-33 is the basis for the notion. A few scattered NT references like John 3:29 and Mark 2:19 also hint at the analogy. In the OT, I catch a whiff in Hosea 2:16 -- but that's about it.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
I’d probably be more accurate too say bride of a pagan church, or even a protesting bride given a Protestant is merely a Roman Catholic in protest.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
I don't need to sir, the Bible teaches, not myself. Jesus was the first creation of God, and Jehovah is the creator. You say Jehovah doesn't exist, the Bible says He exists, Jesus said He exists, and what is more Jesus stated very clearly it is Jehovah our God we must worship and serve exclusively. I would recommend you accept that, but of course it is your choice. Remember you have to know God and obey the gospel at the return of Jesus, or be destroyed 2 Thes 1:6-9
MrBebe
Active Member
- Sep 8, 2012
- 155
- 166
- 43
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Philippines
Good day,
First, I'm not a Catholic nor a Protestant; and not a formal member of any religious institution. I worship the Father in heaven through the Lord Yeshua.
Where is your explanation to your statement: "The Bride is God's Holy Spirit"? The two verses you quoted, John 3:29 and Luke 3:22, are so insufficient to prove what you have said, brother.
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
If you don't need to answer these challenges, then why have you spent so much time answering others??
You see. You've lost your integrity, with your idolatry, which is what always happens to idolators in the end.
Until you man-up to reclaim your integrity and answer these challenges, then I say good riddance to bad rubbish.
1. Jesus has made all things, and nothing is ever made without Him. And the LORD God of Israel is our Maker.
2. You say the word was with God, and the word was a god. This perversion of the Greek becomes a direct contradiction to the LORD God declaring there is no god with Him, including all gods that have not made anything will perish.
Your falsely made christ and god was never with the LORD and will perish with all other gods.
3. Your jehovah has never fulfilled any promised prophesy the LORD made of Himself on earth. Scripture shows Jesus has and will.
4. Jesus Christ is the Word of life and eternal life manifested on earth. The true God is that eternal life, the Son Jesus Christ.
5. Jesus is the name above every name that is ever named by God in Scripture, including His name Yehovah.
6. The Son is to be honored as the Father, and if not, then neither the Father nor the Son is being honored as God.
And you can keep your 'sir' stuff to yourself. I don't accept lip service from anyone.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
We’re going way off topic. There’s no way I can confront every Roman Catholic doctrine in this one thread.
Jesus ia NOT God's first creation ! He existed before the world's population was created for he was in the creating events with the Father.
Let US make man in OUR IMAGE !
GOD SAID THERE ARE NO OTHER GOD'S EXCEPT ME, THE I AM, THAT I AM!
JESUS IS GOD'S ONLY BEGOTTEN SON! The Father created all the angels but did not create the Son. He himself said I and the Father are ONE !
PPL THAT DENY HIS DEITY WILL HE DENY TO THE FATHER AND YOU WILL CAST INTO OUTER DARKNES AND THE LAKE OF FIRE !
face2face
Well-Known Member
- Jun 22, 2015
- 8,243
- 1,202
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Australia
face2face
Well-Known Member
- Jun 22, 2015
- 8,243
- 1,202
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Australia
Yes that's the point being made. If Christ shared this Glory with God before the world was and its also said we did then how do you discern the difference - or do you just say its your preference to pick and choose?
No, no...
Jesus made the following statement.
You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I (John 14:28).
This statement has been thought to mean that Jesus is something less than God the Father. However this is not what Jesus said. He was not comparing his nature with that of God the Father. Rather he was comparing their positions.
He Was Lesser In Position When He Came To Earth
When Jesus came to earth he came in the form of a servant. This is also known as His humiliation. The Apostle Paul wrote.
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a human, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross (Philippians 2:5-8).
Jesus Has Now Been Exalted
Jesus has now been exalted. Continuing his thought in Philippians, Paul wrote.
For this reason also, God highly exalted him, and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:9-11).
Summary
The fact that Jesus said, "My Father is greater than I" has led some to conclude that he was lesser in nature than God the Father. However this statement refers to Jesus' state of humiliation that he took when he became a human being. It does not to have reference to his basic nature.
J.
Jesus made the following statement.
You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I (John 14:28).
This statement has been thought to mean that Jesus is something less than God the Father. However this is not what Jesus said. He was not comparing his nature with that of God the Father. Rather he was comparing their positions.
He Was Lesser In Position When He Came To Earth
When Jesus came to earth he came in the form of a servant. This is also known as His humiliation. The Apostle Paul wrote.
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a human, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross (Philippians 2:5-8).
Jesus Has Now Been Exalted
Jesus has now been exalted. Continuing his thought in Philippians, Paul wrote.
For this reason also, God highly exalted him, and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:9-11).
Summary
The fact that Jesus said, "My Father is greater than I" has led some to conclude that he was lesser in nature than God the Father. However this statement refers to Jesus' state of humiliation that he took when he became a human being. It does not to have reference to his basic nature.
J.
The deity of Jesus is one of the most important question in this book, and every believer should have a biblical answer to this question.
Why is that?
Because there is more confusion around the person of Jesus Christ than any other human figure in history, while most people will readily accept that Jesus was once a man, many will rage at the claim that He was more than a man.
It is worth noting that a compelling argument is made stating that Jesus never mentioned, nor does the Bible document Him saying, “I am God worship me.”
Although Jesus does not explicitly use those words, we do have several statements in the Bible that would imply the characteristics of Jesus’s claims of deity.
CLAIMS & ACTIONS OF JESUS
JESUS CLAIMED TO BE ETERNAL YAHWEH
JESUS CLAIMED EQUALITY WITH GOD
JESUS OPENLY ACCEPTED WORSHIP
JESUS OPENLY FORGAVE SIN
JESUS EXPECTED THE DISCIPLES TO PRAY IN HIS NAME
A further list of claims by Jesus is included at the end of this page for your reference.
Furthermore, in John Chapter 5:17–24, Jesus makes five distinct claims of being equal with God. He is equal with the Father in His person, in His sovereign power, in His works, in His judgment, and in the honor that is due to Him.
John 5:17-24 (NKJV)
17. But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”
18. Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
19. Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.
20. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel.
21. For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.
22. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,
23. that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
24. “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
CLAIMS OF JESUS FOLLOWERS
Moreover, we also see statements made by Jesus’ close disciples.
Although initially, it took them a while, they eventually recognized that behind the cover of His humanity abided the Glory of His Divinity.
THOMAS CALLED JESUS GOD
JOHN OPENS HIS BOOK BY CALLING JESUS GOD
MATHEW REFERS TO JESUS AS IMMANUEL IN HIS BOOK
Even from a historical study, the early Church refuted claims that reduced Jesus to being merely a man and warmly welcomed Jesus as God.
The Chalcedonian Creed, written in 451 AD (statement of the early Church), asserts that Jesus is indeed God and Truly Man.
These clear statements from the Bible are sufficient for anyone to recognize that Jesus was more than a just man and was God revealing Himself in human flesh.
In fact there are only three possible explanations for the claims that Jesus made. Either he was crazy, a deceiver or exactly who He claimed to be. He could not have possibly been merely a good moral teacher for such people do not make the kind of claims that Jesus had made – as C. S. Lewis notes,
”A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic—on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg—or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
Below are a few more relevant extracts/statements that support Jesus’ claims for divinity;
ADDITIONAL REFERENCES WITH BIBLE VERSES WHERE JESUS CLAIMED:
IT IS EVIDENT THAT BY JUST READING THE GOSPEL ACCOUNTS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT - YOU CANNOT COME TO ANY OTHER CONCLUSION THAT JESUS IS GOD INCARNATE REVEALED IN THE FLESH.
face2face
Well-Known Member
- Jun 22, 2015
- 8,243
- 1,202
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Australia
No matter how hard you try J. you can never justify a puppet show which has Jesus being exalted when you say "he was already exalted" in a previous existence. Your foundation is a lie...it will be revealed to you one day, God willing.
Last edited:
face2face
Well-Known Member
- Jun 22, 2015
- 8,243
- 1,202
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Australia
In Character yes, but not in authority. Divine nature bestowed upon him and name and position inherited...you cannot inherit something if it was always yours..doubt you need that explained!
face2face
Well-Known Member
- Jun 22, 2015
- 8,243
- 1,202
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Australia
There is it for all to see...you have a post creedal faith - gotta get back to the original Gospel J. It's there you need to unlearn before you approach it!
Similar threads
