Once Saved, Always Saved?

[ScottA]

Paul said "rightly dividing the word of truth" to Timothy in the same letter where he said "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

There was no New Testamant when Paul wrote this. The word of truth being divided was the Tanakh, not the Gospels.

That is perhaps a common mistake, but No, Jesus defined the divide between the ages, saying:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6
​

Jesus announced it as the coming of the kingdom of God (whom is spirit), and Paul, His servant, preached it. All of which is according to the scriptures.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Works For Salvation Verses (After We are Saved By God’s Grace):

1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24).
   
   
2. “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17).
   
   
3. 10 “For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:10, and Titus 1:16).
   
   
4. “And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).
   
   
5. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).
   
   
6. “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).
   
   
7. “Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee ? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee ? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:34-46).
   
   
8. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).
   
   
9. “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27).
   
   
10. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:5-6).
    
    
11. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).
    
    
12. “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:” (Hebrews 12:14).
    
    
13. “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).
    
    
14. “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4).
    
    
15. “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,…” (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

paul lied in eph 2, In titus 3. Jesus lied in John 3.

Dude you think you can earn salvation. Good luck

This is what paul thinks’

3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

Just remember i did not call you a fool

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Israelites were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored - Romans 11:24-26). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not become arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Jews lost the goodness and blessings of God.

Professing Christians who are Gentiles are corporately in outward covenant with Christ so, it would appear that Romans 11 is speaking about the question of collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology. I see the warning to this collective body, which is corporately joined to Christ and is in a covenant relationship, but how could this mean that every individual in it is in saving union with Christ? Hence the "cut off." Union with Christ applies to the elect, and only for the elect are, "the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." (verse 29) But since non-elect covenant members are mixed in, Christ clearly appears to have non-elect branches, like Judas Iscariot (John 15:1-8) and while they may be joined outwardly in covenant with Christ, since they have professed faith in Jesus, the faith of some of them is spurious because they were never truly saved to begin with, even though they were among genuine believers. (1 John 2:19).

The whole collective Soteriology vs. individual Soteriology is purely a man invented concept to defend the false teaching of OSAS. Paul is writing to the Christians in Rome, and he is talking to them (as a group which is made up of individuals).

 

[ScottA]

I'm not defending sin. I'm not defending YOUR sin. Sin is sin. You're lacking in grace and mercy. God isn't. YOU ARE.

Yes, none of us are defending sin--that is a great misunderstanding here.

But it is also, not one or the other--not love grace or love righteousness. This should not even be our argument, as both come to those who are in Christ.

This argument is a spiritual one.

Those who prefer the old ways--hold to them, while those who prefer to press on, press on "toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus." Which is to "follow Christ" in His ascension to Oneness in God, whom is spirit.

What we are witnessing is the flesh of those who prefer the old ways, the ways of this world, crucifying "Christ who lives" in us. These are not unlike those of Israel, who knowing the scriptures, did not perceive the times.

Weeping and gnashing of teeth shall follow.

 

[Happy Trails]

That is perhaps a common mistake, but No, Jesus defined the divide between the ages, saying:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6
​

Jesus announced it as the coming of the kingdom of God (whom is spirit), and Paul, His servant, preached it. All of which is according to the scriptures.

What does any of that have to do with the fact that when Paul told Timothy to rightly divide the word, he was talking about the Law and the prophets? That is what Timothy had from his youth. He was NOT talking about the NT, or the Gospels, as you claim, because the NT did not exist yet. Paul described the OT as the instructions in righteousness that would make a man perfect.

So, no more Christianese platitudes, no more blather.

 

[Grailhunter]

You keep going to new topics.

So what do you think the topic is? The last I checked something like this....
So, the Bishops of Christianity CREATED a bunch of holidays and put them on the days of pagan festivals.
If they had known what they were doing, they would know that kind of thing is strictly forbidden.
But, they didn't because they were pagans who were now in charge of Rome's version of Christianity.
The feasts of Leviticus 23 are the prophetic proof that Jesus is the Messiah. Without them, He's just another self-proclaimed prophet.

The Jews were the first Christians.

The Jew were the first Christians converts...Ya

Those Gentiles joined congregations of Jews.
They did to begin with.

As the religion grew, Rome knew the best way to capitalize on this new god sweeping the land was to get control of it and use that control to make it be whatever served their needs.
How long do you think they planned that? LOL And how strange a plan was it? The persecutions lasted for over 250 years. Horrible unimaginable persecutions....were they courting them with persecutions.

The Bible says that using pagan holidays and rituals to worship YHVH is an abomination.
The Bible says? Where? I would suspect that this would be the belief in the Old Testament....but I do not think there is an example.

For the rest of the Holiday thing there is no good answer for Protestants.

What do you think Moses and God would do if someone came up and wanted to change or divide there religion into 30.000 religions?

What do you think Christ and the Apostles would think of people that would fracture Christ's church into 30,000 denominations.....?

 

[ScottA]

What does any of that have to do with the fact that when Paul told Timothy to rightly divide the word, he was talking about the Law and the prophets? That is what Timothy had from his youth. He was NOT talking about the NT, or the Gospels, as you claim, because the NT did not exist yet. Paul described the OT as the instructions in righteousness that would make a man perfect.

So, no more Christianese platitudes, no more blather.

Paul was not just leaving Timothy instructions for his own generation, but touching back to David, etc., and also for millennia to come, of which we are now a part. But the times.

Don't forget the times.

Jesus had just recently announce the arrival of the kingdom of God--God whom is spirit. And He too gave instructions...that we must be born again of the spirit of God, and that, that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.

So, No, Paul's instructions were not a continuation of the old ways before Christ, before the Holy Spirit. The divide he spoke of was according to Jesus'
instructions to Paul, not Paul's instructions to Timothy. Such things must be discerned spiritually. If not...he failed to properly instruct him. And the same is true for us.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You mean "after the part of the Bible where it talks about what they DID, I need to find something in a letter that says they changed everything they were doing." There's nothing like that in there.

The Sabbath was the sign between Israel and YHVH that he was their Elohim and they were his people. It was the weekly reminder that they were chosen to be a holy people. The Sabbath is what MADE the set apart from other people. And you think that one account of one guy doing something one time is justification for overruling the most repeated Commandment in all of Scripture, even when the account of their activities lists a number of occasions where they did what they had always done, the same way they had always done it.

I do not belong to Israel.

Nice try

 

[Bible Highlighter]

paul lied in eph 2,

There are two aspects of salvation. The first aspect of salvation is being saved by God’s grace in our Initial Salvation. It is also how we are foundationally saved, as well. Ephesians 2:8-9 is referring to Initial Salvation because it says how believers have been quickened (made alive) (Ephesians 2:1). How many times is a believer quickened? Just one time in their Initial Salvation. Also, Paul says, by grace are ye saved (Ephesians 2:8). Normally gifts are received one time. So this is referring to how we first were saved by God’s grace. This is a process of salvation without works because it based upon being saved by God’s mercy and grace. Ephesians 2:8-9 is not referring to the secondary aspect of salvation that is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 that says God has chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit.

In titus 3.

Titus 3:5 is also referring to Initial Salvation because it says, “…according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;”

When does the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost happen?
When you first are initially saved. So this is not referring to the secondary aspect of salvation in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 where it says God has chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit.

Jesus lied in John 3.

No. Jesus did not lie. Your understanding of His words is the problem.
When you read verses like John 3:16 that says, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” you also have to read the “Condemnation” in John 3:19-21 that says,

19 “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”​

Notice verse 20. It says every one who who does evil hates the light. So if a believer justifies evil they hate the true light of the real Jesus. They are not coming to the light (the true light or true Jesus and not the false OSAS Jesus) so that their deeds shall be reproved (corrected) whereby they will battle and fight against such evil deeds to do them no more. Only OSAS makes room for a believer to think they can sin and still be saved. But as John 3:20 says all who do evil hates the light. The true light which lights the way of every man that comes into the world (John 1:9).

Dude you think you can earn salvation. Good luck

It’s not about earning salvation, but it’s about abiding in Jesus who is salvation.
We can have an assurance that we know Jesus if we find that we are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3).
The person who says they know the Lord and they don’t keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4).
So your saying that a believer can abide in sin (break God’s commands) and still be saved. But John says that a person who says they know the Lord and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them. So I believe John and not the OSAS Proponent.

This is what paul thinks’

3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

You fail to realize that Paul is fighting against a heresy of which I call, “Circumcision Salvationism.” This is the false belief brought up at the Jerusalem council in Acts 15 that basically said that a person first had to be circumcised in order to be initially saved (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24). In other words, if a person thought they had to first be saved by being circumcised, they would be making a Law or work the basis of their salvation instead of believing that they are initially saved by God’s grace by faith in Jesus Christ as their Savior. Paul says, “But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:” (Galatians 2:3); Paul says, “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” (Galatians 5:2).

Circumcision is a part of the 613 Laws of Moses, and it is not a command given to us by Jesus Christ and or His followers in the pages of the New Testament. So Paul is referring to the Old Law. Paul is also saying did you RECEIVE the Spirit by the works of the law (circumcision) or by the hearing of faith. This is what Paul is talking about. He is not talking about what happens in the secondary aspect of salvation in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 after we are first saved by God’s grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Just remember i did not call you a fool

Well, Paul is not exactly telling me this directly himself. This is merely your interpretation of what you think Paul says towards me when you are obviously in grave error and mistaken (seeing you are taking Paul’s words out of context).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Those without eyes to see do not.

Right, and the Saturday Sabbath is no longer a binding command today. This is obvious to anyone who reads Colossians 2:14-17. We are not to let others judge us in regards to whether or not we keep the Sabbaths or holy days, or dietary laws, etcetera. There are no commands given to us by Jesus and His followers to keep the Sabbath. There are no breaking of the Sabbath listed as a sin among the other lists of sins mentioned by the followers of Jesus Christ. Christians gathered on the first day of the week (Which is a Sunday and not Saturday). No doubt this was to commemorate their discovery of His resurrection.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There is an issue with your thinking

OSAS does not WANT TO SIN.

If we do not want to sin (see paul ROmans 7 he felt the same way) then you cant claim we want to sin all we want.

Sorry. The cat is already out of the bag. Unless you hit your head and totally forgot what you said, a moment back in one of your posts you claimed the following insanity.

“Your not going to get to heaven because you do not commit those sins. And they are not going to hell because they commit those sins.
Christ is the only means to heaven, Not how good or bad someone is.” ​

Quote by: ~ Eternally Grateful.

In other words, if we are to take these words literally in what you said in your previous post, then going to heaven is not based on not committing sin, and it has nothing to do with how good or bad someone is. So somebody can be bad and still go to heaven according to your above stated words. You can sin and still be saved according to these above words of yours. So your current claim does not really change your previous ones that defends immorality.

As for Romans 7:14-24:

In this passage, Paul was recounting his past experience as a Pharisee under the 613 Laws of Moses when he did not know Jesus Christ yet.
Read the beginning of the chapter. He refers to those who know the Law (Romans 7:1). We are told to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter (Romans 7:6). That’s the context you either ignore or you are not even aware of.

Paul says in Romans 7:14 that he is carnal and sold under sin. Yet, in Romans 8:2 Paul says that the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has made him free from the Law of sin and death. Paul says the carnal mind is death (Romans 8:6). So unless Paul has a split personality, he is speaking from two different perspectives.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

OSAS is not a "justify disobedience" doctrine--not at all.

It is rather, the recognition of all that Christ has done, which is faith in Him to finish the good work that He has begun, rather than lacking such faith and considering all the warnings of holding out unto the end were for them...when they were not--not exactly. Those warnings were indeed to them and to all--but not as you seem to believe. Yes, they apply to them--but only to the end of themselves--to the End, whom is Christ.

Those who understand this are those who have heard what the Spirit says, while those who have not heard continue to attempt in the flesh, what the flesh cannot attain...except "in Christ." Which, if one insists that it not be until the flesh is no more--that is exactly what such a one will receive. But such is to "grieve the Spirit."

This is what Paul referred to by "rightly dividing the word of truth." In other words, the scriptures--the gospel, is written to both those born of the flesh and also those born [again] of the Spirit. But "what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?" These things which you hold as one, God has intended to "divide", doing so daily since the first evening and morning. This is that counsel of which Paul spoke--that we should come into one accord with the work of God, rather than hold to the ways of this world and the desires of the flesh.

OSAS is not true for the simple fact that the Bible teaches that one can fall away. Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 5:2-4
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Luke 8:11-15
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3​

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)​

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
(James 5:19-20)​

In fact, the apostle Paul (the great grace teacher) is against Eternal Security. For Paul says,

1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).
   
   
2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).
   
   
4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).
   
   
5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).
   
   
6. We can deny God by a lack of good works (Titus 1:16).
   
   
7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).
   
   
8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).
   
   
9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).
   
   
10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).

OSAS is a devil’s doctrine because it teaches you cannot lose your salvation. Yet, no OSAS person I know of says they don’t sin, and no OSAS proponent I know of says they are unsaved if they are abiding in sin. This is turning God’s grace into a license for immorality. They believe they can sin and still be saved. OSAS Christians justify sin to different degrees. Some it is less, and others it is a lot more. Those OSAS proponents who sin less think those who sin a lot more are not saved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There are two aspects of salvation. The first aspect of salvation is being saved by God’s grace in our Initial Salvation. It is also how we are foundationally saved, as well. Ephesians 2:8-9 is referring to Initial Salvation because it says how believers have been quickened (made alive) (Ephesians 2:1). How many times is a believer quickened? Just one time in their Initial Salvation. Also, Paul says, by grace are ye saved (Ephesians 2:8). Normally gifts are received one time. So this is referring to how we first were saved by God’s grace. This is a process of salvation without works because it based upon being saved by God’s mercy and grace. Ephesians 2:8-9 is not referring to the secondary aspect of salvation that is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 that says God has chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit.



Titus 3:5 is also referring to Initial Salvation because it says, “…according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;”

When does the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost happen?
When you first are initially saved. So this is not referring to the secondary aspect of salvation in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 where it says God has chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit.



No. Jesus did not lie. Your understanding of His words is the problem.
When you read verses like John 3:16 that says, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” you also have to read the “Condemnation” in John 3:19-21 that says,

19 “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”​

Notice verse 20. It says every one who who does evil hates the light. So if a believer justifies evil they hate the true light of the real Jesus. They are not coming to the light (the true light or true Jesus and not the false OSAS Jesus) so that their deeds shall be reproved (corrected) whereby they will battle and fight against such evil deeds to do them no more. Only OSAS makes room for a believer to think they can sin and still be saved. But as John 3:20 says all who do evil hates the light. The true light which lights the way of every man that comes into the world (John 1:9).



It’s not about earning salvation, but it’s about abiding in Jesus who is salvation.
We can have an assurance that we know Jesus if we find that we are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3).
The person who says they know the Lord and they don’t keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4).
So your saying that a believer can abide in sin (break God’s commands) and still be saved. But John says that a person who says they know the Lord and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them. So I believe John and not the OSAS Proponent.



You fail to realize that Paul is fighting against a heresy of which I call, “Circumcision Salvationism.” This is the false belief brought up at the Jerusalem council in Acts 15 that basically said that a person first had to be circumcised in order to be initially saved (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24). In other words, if a person thought they had to first be saved by being circumcised, they would be making a Law or work the basis of their salvation instead of believing that they are initially saved by God’s grace by faith in Jesus Christ as their Savior. Paul says, “But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:” (Galatians 2:3); Paul says, “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” (Galatians 5:2).

Circumcision is a part of the 613 Laws of Moses, and it is not a command given to us by Jesus Christ and or His followers in the pages of the New Testament. So Paul is referring to the Old Law. Paul is also saying did you RECEIVE the Spirit by the works of the law (circumcision) or by the hearing of faith. This is what Paul is talking about. He is not talking about what happens in the secondary aspect of salvation in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 after we are first saved by God’s grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-9).



Well, Paul is not exactly telling me this directly himself. This is merely your interpretation of what you think Paul says towards me when you are obviously in grave error and mistaken (seeing you are taking Paul’s words out of context).

This is phariseeism at its finest.

This is saying we begin in the spirit. But must perfect in the flesh

Jesus said we will never die. You do not agree with Jesus. There is nothing more anyone has to say.

Good luck my friend.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Why wouldn't I be? How have I pretended anything?

Do all of you people have to resort to identity politics and making everything about what race or religion someone is?



Is is not possible to have a conversation about the text without having to deal with "are you a Jew?"

It is rare. That is why I'm questioning you.....

You act as if where blue in the border of you garments is common. It isn't at all.

Most people have no idea what the requirements of the law of Moses were. No idea. They have never had to live by it themselves .....fearing death from breaking it.

 

[farouk]

This is phariseeism at its finest.

This is saying we begin in the spirit. But must perfect in the flesh

Jesus said we will never die. You do not agree with Jesus. There is nothing more anyone has to say.

Good luck my friend.

Like your avatar says, God begins and completes His work of faith in the heart...... (Phil. 1.6).

 

[Ezra]

OSAS is a devil’s doctrine because it teaches you cannot lose your salvation. Yet, no OSAS person I know of says they don’t sin, and no OSAS proponent I know of says they are unsaved if they are abiding in sin. This is turning God’s grace into a license for immorality. They believe they can sin and still be saved. OSAS Christians justify sin to different degrees. Some it is less, and others it is a lot more. Those OSAS proponents who sin less think those who sin a lot more are not saved.

i think your just a tad bit off on your theology and doctrine interpolation .most of what you posted is not true osas does OT JUSTIFY DIFFERENT DEGREES OF SIN. JUST ASKING COUPLE QUESTIONS WHAT DO YOU DO WITH no man can pluck us out of the fathers hnad and kept by the power of God


ya know i do some many osnas people not loving for the Lord .you ask will you go to heaven when you die ?answer is yes then you ask do you believe in osas eternal security answer No.... do you believe he promised us eternal life ? please use scripture

Yet, no OSAS person I know of says they don’t sin, and no OSAS proponent I know of says they are unsaved if they are abiding in sin. This is turning God’s grace into a license for immorality.

lol how many osas people have you talked in depth to.. or is this just your thoughts? just curious

 

[Taken]

and you are still trying to justify disobedience, then your claim is demonstrably false.

“Still trying to justify disobedience”....[/QUOTE]

“Still” implies you have evidence of your claim...that you render with a charge...of false.
Why fail to verify your claim?
Quote me regarding your claim.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Ha ha ha ha!!!

Aw, you people.

The Law defines sin. It doesn't cause a person to sin. That's like saying the tripping rule in football is causing people to trip others!

The shocking part is that it all comes from trying to justify rebellion.

Amazing.

The Law Stirs Up the Old Sin Nature.....Your argument is with Paul, not me....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Ha ha ha ha!!!

Aw, you people.

The Law defines sin. It doesn't cause a person to sin. That's like saying the tripping rule in football is causing people to trip others!

The shocking part is that it all comes from trying to justify rebellion.

Amazing.

Nobody ever walked across my yard until I put up a “ Keep Off the Grass” sign.....it’s kinda like that...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

it just gets worst

Saturday is a day of rest. Not a day to go to church..

We should be gathered together OFTEN like the early church did (acts 2) not on specific days. and we are not to judge people for holding one day above another.

People that REST in the Finished Work Of The Cross know how to “Sabbath” or REST every day....THIS is what God wants....