Once Saved, Always Saved?

[praise_yeshua]

That is what i am trying to tell ya , The SPIRIT called the MOST HOLY
never lets me have peace in any error . IT ALWAYS rebukes and corrects and leads me out of said error
into full repentance mode . THAT IS MY POINT .

I don't believe you. UTTER RUBBISH......There are plenty of examples where people sinned in the Scriptures and didn't realize it for many years.

As we grow in knowledge we recognize that were more sinful than we ever imagined.

Plus even when i have erred , its not like i am saying , HEY GOD IS LOVE HE MADE ME THIS WAY .

Even when.... yeah. You have an high opinion of yourself.

I get convicted massively when even a lustful evil thought pops into my head .

Geesh. Anyone can recognize such things as sin, what you can't possibly know is just how wrong you are in what you believe. That is as much "sin" as anything else. You must grow and learn to know your own mistakes and failures. You have plenty of them left. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

SO HOW COME THEY DEFEND SIN . WELL cause they think its fine or that it aint even sin at all .

I'm not defending sin. I'm not defending YOUR sin. Sin is sin. You're lacking in grace and mercy. God isn't. YOU ARE.

The pastors need to go sit down and let the true lambs stand up and lead the church , cause these men of today
are leading folks ONLY TO DARKNESS under the guise of a false love and a god that contradicts THE GOD of said BIBLE .
NOW WHO do ye suppose would do that . WHO would want to have the worship and be AS GOD . SATAN WOULD .
ITS TIME folks get back into bibles and start learning for themselves and stop living by every emotion of man
and rather start living by EVERY WORD OF GOD ..

Let me guess..... you believe you're one that people that should be leading.... right?

Yeah. You life is full of pride.....but God wouldn't let you be that would He????... Geesh....

 

[mailmandan]

CONTINUED..

As I already shared with you, the NASB reads - Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. (Hebrews 12:14). To be sanctified is to be set apart/made holy. The writer of Hebrews is not talking about adding personal holiness as a supplement to faith in Christ in order to help save yourself. Throughout the Bible we see unbelievers (nominal Christians/make believers) mixed in with genuine believers. Once again in Hebrews 12:15, we read - See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God.. (NASB) The ESV reads - ..fails to obtain the grace of God. Never saved.

What's the difference between them and what you believe?
Do you believe the Prodigal Son was saved while he was living it up with prostitutes?

In this parable, being made "alive again" foreshadows the "born again" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually again and again. We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually. People in the NOSAS camp interpret this parable as the prodigal son was spiritually alive, then spiritually died (lost his salvation) and was spiritually alive again (regained his salvation). I find it interesting that certain translations of Luke 15:32 simply say your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found (NAS).

So you divide sins up into non-death sins and death sins. That sounds like venial sins and mortal sins as taught in Roman Catholicism who BTW also teach salvation by works.

AMP - But we should and are [morally] obligated [as debtors] always to give thanks to God for you, believers beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through the sanctifying work of the Spirit [that sets you apart for God’s purpose] and by your faith in the truth [of God’s word that leads you to spiritual maturity]. 14 It was to this end that He called you through our gospel [the good news of Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection], so that you may obtain and share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. These passages of scripture do not teach that we are saved based on the merits of holy living. The moment that we have been saved through faith we are then sanctified/set apart by God through the work of the Spirit. Believers are washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:11)

I already heard enough of your arguments on the Christian Forums site. We will never come to an agreement.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You know very well that one must believe that Christ rose again to be saved.

That’s basic gospel.

God requires faith.

More light has come from the Gospel over time. Paul said that the Gospel was preached to Abraham and that Abraham believed. However, it took Abraham his entire life to really understand the fulness of the Gospel. Abraham ultimately believed it ALL.....

That doesn't mean he was saved until he believed it all....

Peter was SAVED before Jesus Christ resurrected and the Lord Jesus Christ "KEEP" Peter even after He denied Him.

Just like when you sorry little rearend sins, God loves you and comes looking for you. God keeps you are around when you sin. If God treated us poorly based upon our sin, then God wouldn't have anything to do with any of us.... including YOU.

You got nothing.

Check mate.

Yeah. You're a egomaniac that believes he doesn't sin while everyone else does..... Your ego is full of sin right now and God still loves you. It is shame how you don't want God to love others just like you......

 

[Happy Trails]

So you're an practicing Orthodox Jew?

No.

I am a first century Christian.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That OSAS is a "sin all you want doctrine" and OSAS believers are "justifying sin and evil" is a straw man regardless of your "holier than thou" and "justifying non-death sins vs. death sins" rhetoric.

It’s not a straw man. How many sins does it take for a believer to commit before you classify them as an ungenuine believer?
How many works do they need to do or how many sins do they need to overcome? You seem to have a problem before with the idea of overcoming sin because you were against the idea of Sinless Perfection (Holier Than Thou). Is it not God’s will for you to be holy? (See: 1 Thessalonians 4:3 NLT). In other words, if you are against “Holier Than Thou,” then you are against a believer living a holy life (Whereby they would be living holier than others).

Screen capture it all you want wise guy. I did not hear Eternal Grateful say let's just "sin all we want" and that's not what I'm saying either, but you love to put words in other people's mouth. Just more of your eisegesis and rhetoric in your efforts to judge and condemn OSAS believers.

Either you did understand the words by poster “Eternally Grateful” or you endorsed his words fully realizing what they were saying in that salvation does not depend on any good works period or by not committing sin. Meaning, the opposite of that is that you believe salvation (OSAS) in no way involves good works or refraining from sin as a part of salvation. In other words, you have a license to sin all you want if you so desired. That is what his words are saying. For if his words were not saying that, then he would have said that you have to live holy and do good works as a part of OSAS or salvation. There is no in between.

​

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it's certainty.

Matthew 22:14 - Called (2282 - kletos) in Matthew 22:14 is talking about the general call of the gospel which goes out to all men every time the gospel is preached.

Romans 8:30-39 is dealing with looking at things from a hindsight perspective of those believer’s in God’s Kingdom. It is talking about those saints who preserved to the end and who were faithful to the Lord.

Romans 8:29 says, “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.” Those who love God is what is in context and view of Romans 8:30-39. OSAS folks who justify sin (even one sin) do not love God because to know God is keep His commandments (1 John 2:3). Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Jesus said if you want to abide in His love, keep the commandments (John 15:10). This is not the 613 Laws of Moses, but it is the commands that come from Jesus and His followers in the New Testament.

Those who were called and yet were not chosen merely shows that OSAS is false. If they were called, they should have been saved in the end.
Being chosen by God is not just believing the gospel alone in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (Although that is a first step).

Colossians 3:12
“Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;..”

In the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, we read <Adjective, 2822,kletos> "called, invited," is used, (a) "of the call of the Gospel," Matt. 20:16; 22:14, not there "an effectual call," as in the Epistles, Rom. 1:1,6,7; 8:28; 1 Cor. 1:2,24; Jude 1:1; Rev. 17:14; in Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:2 the meaning is "saints by calling;" (b) of "an appointment to apostleship," Rom. 1:1; 1 Cor. 1:1.

We are called to follow Jesus Christ. If one is not doing that, then they are following another master and they are enslaved to that master. If Jesus is truly our master, then we will be a slave to what He says. This is why we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Called (2564 - kaleo) in Romans 8:30 conveys the idea of an effectual call and emphasizes God's sovereign work. God has invited us to join Him in eternity in incorruptible, sinless, glorified bodies. The aorist tense points to the fact that God effectively had called them into His kingdom and service in the past. There is a distinction between the called (klhtoi) and the chosen (eklektoi) called out from the called. Of course, those who are justified and glorified are those who answer and abide. Romans 8:30 says ..whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. Paul did not say here that many were called but few were justified and glorified.

Matthew 13:41-42 says that a believer will will not be glorified if they do iniquity or sin (Which is what OSAS is really teaching).

Matthew 13:41-42 says,
“The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

So at the Judgment (Before Jesus hands His Kingdom over to God the Father): Jesus will send forth His angels and they will gather out of HIS KINGDOM all who do iniquity (sin), and they shall be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire). So if a believer is professing to be in Christ’s Kingdom and they do iniquity, they will be cast into the fire by the angels of Jesus. It’s not under debate. It’s gonna happen whether you want that to happen or not. This is going to happen for those believers who justify sin (Which is what OSAS teaches).

 

[praise_yeshua]

No.

I am a first century Christian.

So you're not really wearing blue in the fringe of your garments? Why did you lie?

Its seems like everyone wants to pretend they're better than someone else.

 

[ScottA]

Lets just say if your hanging around folks IN SIN and they seem to be LOVING YA and not changing ,
WELL something has went DEAD wrong in ya walk .
If unrepentant gays , murderers , fornicators and etc can happily sit in a church
week after week and feel no conviction and no repentance has been made . LETS JUST SAY
Them pastors AINT DOING the WORK OF GOD .
IF all sinners who loved sin can call me good and hug on me and say my kind of christanity is the BOMB
them rest assured my kind of christanity IS FALSE . What has happened to this generation .
WHERE is the conviction within sinners who willfully sin and sit in a church . I MEAN IF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THERE
and sound doctrine would be preached , YA GOTTA KNOW someone would be heavily convicted
OR they would simply leave the place. SO you tell me , IF the same ol man can sit in the same old church
day after day , year after year , doing good works and hugging all , YET WILLFULLY IN SIN
WHAT do you THINK has GONE WRONG . cause WHEN THE SPIRIT IS PRESENT , I GOTTA TELL YA
IT CONVICTS YA WHEN YA SIN . YET they say OH THEY GODS KIDS and yet NO CONVICTION they they same old
man who maybe now just does more good works and sings more praises , but STILL LOVES SIN .
I DONT SEE THE GRACE OF GOD in any of that . I see another jesus getting preached and i see no sound doctrine
which could have caused some to repent or leave .

Not that I disagree, I don't. But all those who appear to be in willful sin, are not.

This is something new, something unique to these times of the gentiles.

On the contrary, the gospels were mostly preached by and for those on the cusp of change from those times when everyone looked forward to salvation, because it had not yet come. But when Christ came, this began the change--which had only just begun during that evil generation wherein the gospels were written. Therefore, much of the gospels are written to those who would need to "endure until the end" of that time--that generation. Thus, it is right that these things were written--but wrong for those who came and come after. Thus, Paul counselled the need to "rightly divide the word of truth."

What then is right for these times since then--since we do not still look for His coming, but back to the fact that He has already come bringing salvation with Him? What is right is that part that Paul referred to that should be divided unto us appropriately. Yet, that is not the common doctrine of our time--the early church and these many past generations have lumped it all together. What God has set into the lives of two [different] "folds" we have blindly disregarded. Jesus defined those two different folds beginning with the knowledge that we need to be born also [again] of the spirit of God. Then he explained the truth of what we have yet to heed and live, or recognize as the order for our times:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6
​

Thus, that first fold of which Christ must bring, of those born of the flesh following Adam, came to a "finish"...and He announced the beginning of that "other" fold...born of the spirit of God.

That was the dividing of the ages, and what should be rightly divided in the world of truth.

The confusion...comes because of the fact that even the gentiles are first born of the flesh. Nonetheless, He has announced a change of the times, for which we have been counselled to rightly divide what is true according to each--true for what is born of the flesh, and true for what is born of the Spirit.

But what is unique during these times...is that after we who once lived only for the flesh come to the end of ourselves and give that life to Christ--"it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us." And the error by some is to condemn Christ who now lives in those He has allowed to remain alive in His service, but in a body of sin--which is not different, but the same as it was for Israel who first experienced God while still in their sins.

This too has been ordained of God: "first to the Jew, then to the gentile."

By this the gentiles also crucify Christ ("inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’). Which we know was or is not so much the work of Israel or the gentiles, but of Satan, whom He has condemned.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You're a egomaniac

This is a forum. I like to be short and to the point letting scripture do most of the communicating. I’m sorry my posts come off as egotistical.

that believes he doesn't sin while everyone else does....

Everyone else has the same access to the power of the Holy Ghost.

Go get that power brother!

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.” (John 14:12)

And everyone has the free will to surrender all, or give in and fulfill the lusts of the flesh and choose to obey its desires or obey the Spirit.

“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;” (1 Peter 4:1)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why would I retract what I said.​

​

I was not talking about how you should retract what you said. I was referring to Danthemailman and his like rep on one of your posts. His like rep on one of your posts made him look guilty of the charge of justifying sin that he says OSAS does not teach. I was letting him know not to retract his like rep because I took a screen capture of it.

I have had OSAS folk tell me they could mow down a crowd with a sub machine gun and still be saved while doing so all because they have a belief alone in Jesus as their Savior. That’s the kind of pure evil and darkness that OSAS is teaching. Folks here may not say that sin is okay, but they will say other sins are okay with GOD and they are still saved while they do those particular sins that the Bible condemns.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No.

I am a first century Christian.

Unless you are an immortal or a time traveler, I don’t see how that is possible, friend.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

CONTINUED...

Here it comes. Type 2 works salvation. When Paul uses the term "justified" he is referring to the legal (judicial) of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous. James however is using to term to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do. In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works gives evidences for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

I already throughly explained Romans 11:22 to you. You ignored the context and only isolated what you wanted to hear.

Nothing can separate us from the love of God, yet you teach otherwise.

Earlier you said that it only took one sin for the Fall to happen and now you are downplaying non-death sins with death sins.

"Maintaining salvation by works" is another way of saying Type Two Works Salvation and there are people in the Bible who taught it and there are people in false religions and cults that teach it today.

We are justified (accounted as righteous) by faith and not by works. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; 5:1 etc..).

Works-salvationists typically confuse justification with sanctification and the end result is "type 2 works salvation/maintaining salvation by works."

We are justified by both faith and works. James 2:24 says we are justified by works and not by faith alone.
You are simply double talking your way out of why Abraham was justified by works in James 2:21. James asks the question imply that Abraham was justified by works. It’s not saying faith that underlies works is what really saved him and not the works. James implies that Abraham was justified by works. That is what he is plainly saying that you don’t like. Yes, we are not first justified by works. Works only follow after we are first saved by God’s grace (Which is a process of salvation without works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace). Being saved by God’s grace is how we are first initially saved. But if works in no way saves, then you can not lift a finger for God, and still be saved in this life. In the Parable of the Talents, we learn that the servant who was faithful over a few things was told to enter the joy of His Lord, and yet the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why would I retract what I said.

the penalty of sin is death. It does not say the penalty of only these sins is death.

What I want to know is why you think you are better than others. When God looks at you as a sinner who is deserving of his judgment.

Of course he provided a way for you. All you have to do is receive.

Once again, Acknowledging I can not keep Gods commands perfectly is not me excusing my sin.
​

Ah so you want to try to use your works to save you. Good luck with that. Many will in thnat day say lord lord have we not done these works in your name, And he will say depart.

Why?

He never knew you.

God has one view

For all have sinned and fall short.

Sin in the greek means to miss the mark. God set the mark, the mark is perfection. If you have not hit that mark. You are unable to meet Gods standard to save yourself

You better call out to Jesus because he is your only hope

Works For Salvation Verses (After We are Saved By God’s Grace):

1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24).
   
   
2. “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17).
   
   
3. 10 “For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:10, and Titus 1:16).
   
   
4. “And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).
   
   
5. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).
   
   
6. “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).
   
   
7. “Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee ? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee ? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:34-46).
   
   
8. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).
   
   
9. “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27).
   
   
10. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:5-6).
    
    
11. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).
    
    
12. “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:” (Hebrews 12:14).
    
    
13. “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).
    
    
14. “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4).
    
    
15. “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,…” (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

 

[Happy Trails]

Like I said there is no correct answer for Protestants.
If it wasn't for Emperor Constantine Christianity might not have survived.
Still he was an Emperor of an empire that was both Christian and Pagan. It was a transitional period and the empire eventually became Christian. Of course there is no way to stop the criticism, particularly since the Catholics were responsible for so much corruption and so many atrocities. But then the Protestants are not going to admit that splitting Christ's church into 30,000 denominations was a serious offense.



Do you think you are Jew? Most of our ancestry goes back to the Pagans. And now we have 30,000 Protestant versions of Christianity.

You keep going to new topics. What does identity have to do with textual analysis?
The Jews were the first Christians. Then, Paul started evangelizing Gentiles. Those Gentiles joined congregations of Jews. That is evidenced in the "wall of separation" issue. As the religion grew, Rome knew the best way to capitalize on this new god sweeping the land was to get control of it and use that control to make it be whatever served their needs.

The Bible says that using pagan holidays and rituals to worship YHVH is an abomination.

The Roman leaders did not grow up in the language and culture that brought us the Messiah. But, almost overnight, they were in charge, and they were deciding the rules. A bunch of self-absorbed religious leaders took it upon themselves to hijack the faith of their subjects and turn it into whatever they wanted it to be. They changed the names of pagan holidays and attached Jesus to them. They reverse engineered Scripture to force it into their existing religious system.

They made up holidays for Jesus because they did not know that the holidays YHVH gave to us were the prophetic holidays for the Messiah. They are the holidays that the Creator of the Universe said honored his Son. Jesus is the Passover Lamb, not the Easter ham. Once they took the reins they kicked all the Jews to the curb.

It doesn't matter what the excuses are. YHVH is always warning us about blending the profane with the holy.

There are only 2 kinds of religious observances:
1. Those decreed by YHVH as shadows of his Messiah.
2. Those decreed by men to honor themselves and their gods.

The ones you esteem are the god you esteem. Keep in mind, none of the created holidays of Rome have any connection to Jesus. In fact, He considers them an abomination.

 

[Happy Trails]

well thanks for your OPINION

But I want fact..

The sabaath was a day of rest. Not a day of worship.

I take the day of rest. and strive because it is for my benefit.

What days I worship in church is no concern to you and God does not care

The Bible says they continued meeting on the Sabbath.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

CONTINUED..

As I already shared with you, the NASB reads - Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. (Hebrews 12:14). To be sanctified is to be set apart/made holy. The writer of Hebrews is not talking about adding personal holiness as a supplement to faith in Christ in order to help save yourself. Throughout the Bible we see unbelievers (nominal Christians/make believers) mixed in with genuine believers. Once again in Hebrews 12:15, we read - See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God.. (NASB) The ESV reads - ..fails to obtain the grace of God. Never saved.

What's the difference between them and what you believe?
Do you believe the Prodigal Son was saved while he was living it up with prostitutes?

So you divide sins up into non-death sins and death sins. That sounds like venial sins and mortal sins as taught in Roman Catholicism who BTW also teach salvation by works.

AMP - But we should and are [morally] obligated [as debtors] always to give thanks to God for you, believers beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through the sanctifying work of the Spirit [that sets you apart for God’s purpose] and by your faith in the truth [of God’s word that leads you to spiritual maturity]. 14 It was to this end that He called you through our gospel [the good news of Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection], so that you may obtain and share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. These passages of scripture do not teach that we are saved based on the merits of holy living. The moment that we have been saved through faith we are then sanctified/set apart by God through the work of the Spirit. Believers are washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:11)

Save it. I already heard enough of your arguments on the Christian Forums site. We will never come to an agreement.

This is false. Hebrews 12:14 is talking about salvation because it says without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. Then it talks about Esau who was a profane person who sold his birthright. This is a warning to us believers so as not to go down the path of Esau. But if we are to believe your interpretation on this text, these words of warning do not make any sense.

Side Note:

As for Catholics and their teaching of mortal and venial sins: Again, while their list of sins is not accurate to what the Bible says, that does not mean that they cannot stumble upon correct doctrines (loosely) every now and then. Even a blind squirrel can discover a nut. Catholics believe in the Trinity, it does not invalidate the teaching of the Trinity in the Bible (just because they happen to believe in it).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

​

I was not talking about how you should retract what you said. I was referring to Danthemailman and his like rep on one of your posts. His like rep on one of your posts made him look guilty of the charge of justifying sin that he says OSAS does not teach. I was letting him know not to retract his like rep because I took a screen capture of it.

I have had OSAS folk tell me they could mow down a crowd with a sub machine gun and still be saved while doing so all because they have a belief alone in Jesus as their Savior. That’s the kind of pure evil and darkness that OSAS is teaching. Folks here may not say that sin is okay, but they will say other sins are okay with GOD and they are still saved while they do those particular sins that the Bible condemns.

There is an issue with your thinking

OSAS does not WANT TO SIN.

If we do not want to sin (see paul ROmans 7 he felt the same way) then you cant claim we want to sin all we want.

 

[Happy Trails]

Unless you are an immortal or a time traveler, I don’t see how that is possible, friend.

Those without eyes to see do not.

 

[Happy Trails]

So you're not really wearing blue in the fringe of your garments? Why did you lie?

Its seems like everyone wants to pretend they're better than someone else.

Why wouldn't I be? How have I pretended anything?

Do all of you people have to resort to identity politics and making everything about what race or religion someone is?



Is is not possible to have a conversation about the text without having to deal with "are you a Jew?"

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Bible says they continued meeting on the Sabbath.

Show that after acts

 

[Happy Trails]

OSAS is not a "justify disobedience" doctrine--not at all.

It is rather, the recognition of all that Christ has done, which is faith in Him to finish the good work that He has begun, rather than lacking such faith and considering all the warnings of holding out unto the end were for them...when they were not--not exactly. Those warnings were indeed to them and to all--but not as you seem to believe. Yes, they apply to them--but only to the end of themselves--to the End, whom is Christ.

Those who understand this are those who have heard what the Spirit says, while those who have not heard continue to attempt in the flesh, what the flesh cannot attain...except "in Christ." Which, if one insists that it not be until the flesh is no more--that is exactly what such a one will receive. But such is to "grieve the Spirit."

This is what Paul referred to by "rightly dividing the word of truth." In other words, the scriptures--the gospel, is written to both those born of the flesh and also those born [again] of the Spirit. But "what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?" These things which you hold as one, God has intended to "divide", doing so daily since the first evening and morning. This is that counsel of which Paul spoke--that we should come into one accord with the work of God, rather than hold to the ways of this world and the desires of the flesh.

Paul said "rightly dividing the word of truth" to Timothy in the same letter where he said "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

There was no New Testamant when Paul wrote this. The word of truth being divided was the Tanakh, not the Gospels.

 

[Happy Trails]

Show that after acts

You mean "after the part of the Bible where it talks about what they DID, I need to find something in a letter that says they changed everything they were doing." There's nothing like that in there.

The Sabbath was the sign between Israel and YHVH that he was their Elohim and they were his people. It was the weekly reminder that they were chosen to be a holy people. The Sabbath is what MADE the set apart from other people. And you think that one account of one guy doing something one time is justification for overruling the most repeated Commandment in all of Scripture, even when the account of their activities lists a number of occasions where they did what they had always done, the same way they had always done it.