Tribulation Saints? A Contradiction

[The Light]

Observe.
Some men elect to “SPEAK FOR OTHERS WHAT THEY DO NOT SAY”, then proceed to Polk, Jab, Accuse, in desperation of TRYING TO MAKE the OTHER man, accountable, defending, what THEY did NOT say!

Some men ARE only here to ACCUSE, LAMBAST, with no Scriptural validation, for their disagreement.

Such things repeated over and over, ARE old, juvenile, boring, deflective, to ad nauseam tactics....and thus placed on IGNORE...
Leaving the ignorant to be ignorant, remedying their constant deflection from the topic of thread.

Glory to God,
Taken

I have never found the desire to place anyone on ignore or report anyone. Most people have a problem with understanding the Word, so they make up things so they can solve the puzzle. This is things like the Church is the 144,000. God tells us exactly who and what the 144,000 are. We don't need to make anything up. If they maneuver enough things around they can get the end time puzzle to fit and they think they have it solved. If they would only stop making things up and just read what it says, and accept what it says the puzzle solves itself.

Yeah, I tire of the John Nelson Darby, yada, yada, yada nonsense. When I hear that, I know that I am dealing with someone that is just reposting what they heard and have not taken the time to RE-seach the facts for themselves. I think it better to challenge this nonsense with the Word than leave this ignorance unchecked to influence others.

 

[Taken]

The Great Tribulation is the dragon going after and attempting to kill the believers. The wrath of God and tribulation cannot be the same time as believers are not appointed to wrath.

1 Thes 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Most teachers of the pre tribulation rapture, do not understand that the tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins. They do not understand that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is not the coming of Jesus at the 7th trumpet. It is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, BEFORE WRATH.


NOAH was in the ark 7 days BEFORE THE FLOOD, even as the Church will be in heaven 7 years BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD.

Again. The Great Tribulation is OVER BEFORE THE WRATH of God Begins.

Yes believers ALIVE at the time of the Second Great Tribulation, are appointed to wrath, Shall be killed, Shall be Saved After their Death.

A man MUST DIE before he can BE SAVED.
Men WHO ARE SAVED, are NOT appointed to Wrath.
Have you READ the NEW Covenant, NEW TESTAMENT....of HOW TO become CRUCIFIED WITH JESUS...Bodily accounted DEAD and SAVED while alive in ones FLESH?
It is THEY, already FREELY having given their BODILY LIFE, that ARE SAVED, and ARE risen UP BEFORE Tribulation from God BEGINS.

1 THES 5: exactly....”US”...who ARE SAVED are not appointed to wrath.
Where does scripture INCLUDE “ARE SAVED”, to believers WHO ARE NOT CONVERTED? Have NOT the Baptism of the HS?

 

[Taken]

I have never found the desire to place anyone on ignore or report anyone.

You have been on this forum for a month?
You have not encountered all who participate on this forum.

 

[Timtofly]

Such things repeated over and over, ARE old, juvenile, boring, deflective, to ad nauseam tactics....and thus placed on IGNORE...
Leaving the ignorant to be ignorant, remedying their constant deflection from the topic of thread.

The point constantly repeated over and over ad nauseum is a 7 year treaty, that exists nowhere in Scripture. And yet it is called ignorance to keep pointing out human fallacy. Is ignorance just repeating the same false theory over and over again without any proof from God's Word?

The deception is to accept a point because at face value it seems to make sense. Some person in the last 200 years inserted that thought and many ran with it declaring great knowledge, then call others with the truth ignorant. Well I am ignorant on about 90% of human knowledge that is just pure garbage. I am happy to keep it that way, even if the flesh would like to know every single last detail of humanity's workings.

Should God just stop warning man, even the saved, they have been decieved, about what is to come? Or is God's gentle warnings too obnoxious for those who have accepted half truths?

It seems every single eschatological view has at least one point of truth, but the main tenant is based on human frailty. So none of them are exactly correct to a "T". And no one will be 100% correct before the Second Coming, or at least it seems that way.

And no, I am not claiming to know it all, and have all the answers. Even if I did, you all would reject the truth anyways. The only way to learn is to ask questions. Telling people you know it all means you no longer have anything to learn. I doubt that what is known is the truth in that case.

It is called iron sharpening iron. That is how truth comes to light.

 

[The Light]

You have been on this forum for a month?
You have not encountered all who participate on this forum.

Not my first rodeo.

 

[Timtofly]

Actually, logic should tell you that the 144,000 are sealed BEFORE the sixth seal. John has another vision after the writing down the 1st 6 seals. He sees the 144,000 being sealed. THEN we see the great multitude in heaven and some of them COME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION.

Rev 7
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The great tribulation happens BEFORE the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal
Rev 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


Actually the 144,000 are on earth with Jesus on Mount Sion.

Rev 14
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

The 144,000 are REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH and are before the throne

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

The 144,000 are firstfruits. This means they are redeemed from the earth and are before the throne BEFORE THE HARVEST.

Rev 14
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

We also get another view of the Great Tribulation that is occurring at the 5th seal in Rev 14.
Rev 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Then of course we have the coming of Jesus in Rev 14 where he remains in the clouds and sends his angels JUST PRIOR TO THE WRATH OF GOD.
Rev 14
9 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

This is the exact same event that you see at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. Jesus comes for the harvest and the wrath begins.

Rev 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Let's just use some common sense and logic. When Jesus comes at the 6th seal, He sends his angels for the harvest. When you see the great multitude in Rev 7 that is the harvest that occurred in Rev 6. So if the harvest occurred in Rev 6 wouldn't it be logical that the 144,000 were sealed BEFORE the 6th seal? Also the 144,000 are firstfruits of the harvest. We saw them redeemed from the earth in Rev 14. The wrath of God is OVER at the 7th trumpet when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. So the events that you are looking at in Rev 14 occur IN THE SEALS. In Rev 14, we see the first fruits, we see the great tribulation and we see the coming of Jesus and the wrath beginning. The exact events that take place in the seals.

Coming out of great tribulation is all those martyred in the last 1992 years.

The tribulation of those days is the first 4 Seals being opened. The Second Coming is immediately after those days. Which means the opening of the first 4 Seals as Prince starts the 3.5 year countdown until the 7th Trumpet. The Seals are not a long drawn out process of the church age.

The 144k are on earth with Jesus and the angels during the 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders. The 144k and Christ are only on Mt. Zion, if Satan is given 42 months. If no 42 months, then no waiting on Mt. Zion. The Millennium will start when the 7 Trumpet stops either way.

Matthew 25:31 has Jesus as Prince sitting on His throne in Jerusalem at the Second Coming. The 144k are always the camp of the saints. The ones overcome, who retreat in Revelation 13. The ones surrounded at the end of the 1,000 years in Revelation 20. They are the firstfruits redeemed between the 6th and 7th Seals being opened. They are the Millennium disciples, just like the original 12 were His disciples in the first century. They were OT redeemed, who started the NT church. The 144k are redeemed between the 6th and 7th Seal, but are the tribulation and Millennium saints as the firstfruits and disciples of Christ who will never physically die ever. When sealed, they receive their permanent incorruptible physical body, removed from Adam's dead corruptible flesh. That is the literal point of symbolically being sealed.

The 5th Seal is symbolic of the whole church being glorified. The joining of the spirit around the physical body. The putting on of immortality as Paul describes at the Second Coming. This is the restoration of the full image of God as sons of God, soul, body, and spirit. The 5th and 6th Seal is John's version of the Second Coming written symbolically. Compared to Paul's version that is literal from an earthly perspective, John's view is symbolic from a heavenly perspective.

 

[The Light]

Yes believers ALIVE at the time of the Second Great Tribulation, are appointed to wrath, Shall be killed, Shall be Saved After their Death.

Can you post a verse that shows there has been a first great tribulation?

A man MUST DIE before he can BE SAVED.
Men WHO ARE SAVED, are NOT appointed to Wrath.
Have you READ the NEW Covenant, NEW TESTAMENT....of HOW TO become CRUCIFIED WITH JESUS...Bodily accounted DEAD and SAVED while alive in ones FLESH?
It is THEY, already FREELY having given their BODILY LIFE, that ARE SAVED, and ARE risen UP BEFORE Tribulation from God BEGINS.

1 THES 5: exactly....”US”...who ARE SAVED are not appointed to wrath.
Where does scripture INCLUDE “ARE SAVED”, to believers WHO ARE NOT CONVERTED? Have NOT the Baptism of the HS?[/QUOTE]

Why would you play this scriptural game. Why is it necessary to go this incorrect route.

2 Thes
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

The Thessalonians were afraid that they were in the day of the Lord. Paul tells them things that must occur before the gathering from heaven and earth. Neither the Church nor the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth, are appointed to wrath. That means when the wrath of God starts, they will not be on the earth.

 

[The Light]

Coming out of great tribulation is all those martyred in the last 1992 years.

How can you understand Revelation if you do not accept what it says? We know what the Great Tribulation is. It's a time like no other. There will never be a time like this, before or after. This has nothing, whatsoever to do with 1992 years. It's specific. Its the Great Tribulation.

The tribulation of those days is the first 4 Seals being opened.

The 1st 4 seals are the beginning of sorrows. The tribulation of those days is the Great Tribulation. See the 5th seal.

The Second Coming is immediately after those days.

Ok, we have something we can agree on. The second coming occurs at the 6th seal as marked by the cosmic signs of the sun, moon and stars.

Which means the opening of the first 4 Seals as Prince starts the 3.5 year countdown until the 7th Trumpet.

No.

The Seals are not a long drawn out process of the church age.

Of course it's not. The first four things that Jesus mentions in Matt 24, are false Christs, war, famine and pestilence. These are the 1st four seals which are the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse.

The 144k are on earth with Jesus and the angels during the 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders.

This is something that you are making up with no scriptural support. Since we know that the 144000 are the first fruits of the harvest we know that the 144,000 are IN HEAVEN prior to the wrath of God, so they are not on earth during the trumpets.

The 144k and Christ are only on Mt. Zion, if Satan is given 42 months. If no 42 months, then no waiting on Mt. Zion. The Millennium will start when the 7 Trumpet stops either way.

This is another thing you are making up with no scriptural support.

Matthew 25:31 has Jesus as Prince sitting on His throne in Jerusalem at the Second Coming.

The second coming occurs at the 6th seal with the gathering from heaven and earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper. What you are seeing in Matt 25:31 is when Jesus returns with His armies after the marriage supper and sets His kingdom up on the earth.

The 144k are always the camp of the saints. The ones overcome, who retreat in Revelation 13. The ones surrounded at the end of the 1,000 years in Revelation 20. They are the firstfruits redeemed between the 6th and 7th Seals being opened. They are the Millennium disciples, just like the original 12 were His disciples in the first century. They were OT redeemed, who started the NT church. The 144k are redeemed between the 6th and 7th Seal, but are the tribulation and Millennium saints as the firstfruits and disciples of Christ who will never physically die ever. When sealed, they receive their permanent incorruptible physical body, removed from Adam's dead corruptible flesh. That is the literal point of symbolically being sealed.

The 144,000 are first fruits which means they are redeemed earlier in the seals. They are redeemed from the earth BEFORE the Great Tribulation, as they are firstfruits.

The 5th Seal is symbolic of the whole church being glorified.

Why does everyone find a need to make something up. I don't get it. If you would just read what it says and accept it, that's the end of the story. The 5th seal is the great tribulation, just like it says. Who are these in white robes, that come out of Great Tribulation?

 

[Ronald D Milam]

I'm sorry, but you sound very prideful in your "humility." :/

So, truth/facts can be defeated?

He can't ever win a debate against the truth, which explains why I always destroy is position, ad usually get no rebut. Most people on here do not understand humble, if they did God would teach them His full truths. The sad thing is everyone thinks they know it all. But in my prayer 5 or so years ago when I asked God why there are so many understandings of who the Harlot is, Babylon, the Beast the 144,000 etc. etc. I got this from the holy spirit, "Ron, you guys already know it all". So, I understood what needed to be done from that point on. LOSE MENS OPINIONS, even mine, thus humble yourselves before God and He will reveal His truths as He promised to do.

I can't help it if you and others do not understand truth when you hear it. That's on you.

Was it humble at 23 when everyone else was partying on Fridays and Saturday night that I prayed in my room all night? The truth is you do not know me one whit. So, when we get to heaven and you finally find out I was the real truth teller, you will then I guess understand that statement as a statement of fact. Until then, I really could care less what men think, it goes right off my shoulders. It is what it is.

 

[Taken]

The point constantly repeated over and over ad nauseum is a 7 year treaty, that exists nowhere in Scripture.

The deception is to accept a point because at face value it seems to make sense. Some person in the last 200 years inserted that thought and many ran with it declaring great knowledge, then call others with the truth ignorant.

What is to the point of ad nauseam, as I said, was one man speaking FOR AN OTHER, <—- DECEPTION and repetitive claims with out a bit of Scriptural verification. <—- DECEPTION.

You can believe as you Freely Choose. I can agree or disagree with you, and visa versa.
I know, How Often, How Long, I have Studied Scripture, with whom, without whom; without knowledge of what others do or do not do.

It is more than obvious, some hang their knowledge on what enters their ears, without Scripturally verifying it is true or not. If it “sounds” good, “makes sense to their MIND”, they are content to believe and repeat.
Problem is: Understanding Scripture requires Understanding the Knowledge from a Spiritual Understanding, which only comes from God, who is Spirit, to the Quickened Spirit of a man....NOT a carnal mind.

Rom 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

@Timtofly

* As far as your issue with the 7 years, that is your issue, not mine.
We are given, signs, foreshadows, parallels, of what is, what has come to pass, and what shall come to pass.

Every treaty, pac, agreement of supposed peace men make, becomes foiled.
There will never be PEACE ON EARTH effected by men sitting at round table.
* There IS NO POLITICAL SOLUTION to A SPIRITUAL PROBLEM.

Great and Terrible Days ARE Coming...Great Tribulation SHALL Come down from Heaven AGAIN TO destroy the Corrupt Earth and ALL Corrupt Inhabitants OF the Earth.

Satan SHALL have Great Spiritual Power given him for a short time.
Wicked men have Great Political & Military Power given them.
And Individual men have FREEWILL, to choose their own choices of preparedness....to Stand with God, Stand with man, Stand with Satan.

Signs, Foreshadowing, Have always been given men so that man may be prepared TO ESCAPE Gods WRATH, BE subject to Gods WRATH, or BE destroyed by Gods WRATH.
Choose ye this DAY, for yourself, what ye Desire.

Satan WILL exercise his Power, to enter in on the World stage leadership position (per usual mimicking God), promising Peace and Safety (and per usual mimicking God), will KILL those who reject him.

*The Length of Time For Satan to be given Great Power and his position of power and authority over the whole world, (some standing with him), (some rejecting him), is during the course of 7 years.
*Which at the same Time, those who are rejecting Satan, are being taught The Gospel of Christ the Lord Jesus...
1260 days (via 2 Witnesses) and continues 42 months (via 144,000 Israel Tribesmen of the 12 Tribes and A Lamb).
* It effects me none, IF you believe it or not.

God calls us to have Wisdom, to have Understanding, to be Prepared...
Those ^ things IN US, ONLY Comes to us personally from the Lord God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Not my first rodeo.

I was speaking of this forum...
Perhaps you have been here before?

 

[Taken]

Can you post a verse that shows there has been a first great tribulation?

Gen 6
[17] And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Matt 24
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


A man MUST DIE before he can BE SAVED.
....
1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:


Men WHO ARE SAVED, are NOT appointed to Wrath.
...
1 Thes 5:
[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Have you READ the NEW Covenant, NEW TESTAMENT....of HOW TO become CRUCIFIED WITH JESUS...Bodily accounted DEAD and SAVED while alive in ones FLESH?

^ You failed to answer.

It is THEY, already FREELY having given their BODILY LIFE, that ARE SAVED, and ARE risen UP BEFORE Tribulation from God BEGINS.
...
1 Cor 1:
[18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Why would you play this scriptural game. Why is it necessary to go this incorrect route.

Nothing I said is a game or incorrect.
You should verify BEFORE you accuse!

 

[The Light]

I was speaking of this forum...
Perhaps you have been here before?

No, I haven't been here before but I will be surprised if it's much different from anywhere else.

 

[The Light]

Gen 6
[17] And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Matt 24
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The Great Tribulation is Satan trying to wipe out Gods people. This is not the same as God's wrath.

Have you READ the NEW Covenant, NEW TESTAMENT....of HOW TO become CRUCIFIED WITH JESUS...Bodily accounted DEAD and SAVED while alive in ones FLESH?

^ You failed to answer.

I think you are taking things out of context. Alive believers will not be in God's wrath. They will be raptured before the wrath of God.

Nothing I said is a game or incorrect.
You should verify BEFORE you accuse!

You are taking things out of context. When the Word says that we are not appointed to wrath that means that our alive bodies will not be on earth during the wrath of God.

 

[ewq1938]

Believers are appointed to satan's wrath.

Prophecy that Christian saints would be killed during the Great Tribulation:

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Satan's wrath and him starting the Great Tribulation which targets Christians:

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath , because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed , which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


The Christian saints killed during Satan's wrathful Great Tribulation:

Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them : and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


The Christian saints killed during Satan's wrathful Great Tribulation are resurrected:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God , and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years .

Its Satan's wrath not God's wrath during the Great Tribulation. God's wrath begins at the 7th trump.

Joh_16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.


Tribulation comes from the enemy. The great Tribulation is from Satan. This is very basic biblical knowledge.


Rom_12:12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

2Co_1:4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

2Co_7:4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.

1Th_3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

 

[Taken]

There will never be a time like this, before or after.

Already has before. The Flood.

The 1st 4 seals are the beginning of sorrows. The tribulation of those days is the Great Tribulation. See the 5th seal.

No.
We are in sorrows. Mark 13:8

Ok, we have something we can agree on. The second coming occurs at the 6th seal as marked by the cosmic signs of the sun, moon and stars.

No.
Faithful and True, on White Horse, Called the Word of God.
Rev 19: 11,12,13

Of course it's not. The first four things that Jesus mentions in Matt 24, are false Christs, war, famine and pestilence. These are the 1st four seals which are the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse.

No.
Seal 1, 2, 3, 4, Satan given power, to conquer, kill 1/4 of world. control economy.

This is something that you are making up with no scriptural support. Since we know that the 144000 are the first fruits of the harvest we know that the 144,000 are IN HEAVEN prior to the wrath of God, so they are not on earth during the trumpets.

After the 7th Trump sounds. Rev 11
The 144,000 and a lamb are on Mt Zion. rev 14:1

The second coming occurs at the 6th seal with the gathering from heaven and earth.

No.
Rev 19: 11,12, 13 Faithful and True Called the Word of God.

Why does everyone find a need to make something up.

Hummm.

I don't get it.

I agree.

 

[Taken]

The Great Tribulation is Satan trying to wipe out Gods people. This is not the same as God's wrath.

You can think the Lamb of God is God or you can KNOW the Lamb of God is God......
In Heaven During the Lamb of God Opening the Seals, giving power to Satan...That IS the Lamb of God sending down HIS WRATH, from Heaven...rev 6:16

I think you are taking things out of context. Alive believers will not be in God's wrath.

ERROR... Specifically I said BELIEVERS....NOT converted believers.
Converted Believers HAVE already given their body unto death...
(Remember that crucified with Christ thingy?)
A man Can not become SAVED, until his body is dead.
Believers that are NOT converted, and....still bodily living.
NO they are not Raptured, they are not IN Christ, they must become bodily dead.

They will be raptured before the wrath of God.

No.
The Rapture of Christ’s Church, the Converted, the Saved, occurs BEFORE the Trib begins.
Those saved DURING the Trib. Bodily DIE during the Trib.
They are IN JESUS...NOT IN CHRIST.
God will bring with Him...1 Thes 4:14
souls saved, rise to heaven.
Body raised AFTER the 1,000 year reign. Rev 20:5

You are taking things out of context.

false accusation.

When the Word says that we are not appointed to wrath that means that our alive bodies will not be on earth during the wrath of God.

“WE” are the CONVERTED IN CHRIST...Period.
Apparently you are unaware..
Believing IS ONE THING...Believing “IN” Jesus.
...Men can STOP Believing.
Confessing Belief is ANOTHER THING....Converted “IN” Christ.
...Conversion is PERMANENT.

 

[The Light]

God's wrath begins at the 7th trump.

Gods' wrath begins at the 1st trumpet and ends at the 7th trumpet

 

[Taken]

Gods' wrath begins at the 1st trumpet and ends at the 7th trumpet

No.

The whole Great Last Tribulation IS just that ...Great Tribulation sent down from Heaven, upon. All ungodliness. Foretold, Warned, Told HOW TO Escape, or not.

Per the 7 SEALS, 7 TRUMPS, 7 VIALS, = 21 STEP by STEP, Increase by Increase of TRIBULATION...until all the Divided, with and without the Lord God Almighty....ARE SEPARATED....mankind AND angels.

The wrath of God occurs through-out Revelations, beginning with the Wrath of the Lamb. SEALS.
Woes of Gods Wrath during the TRUMPS, in conjunction with the Devils Wrath.
Also During the Last Seven VIALS.

Rev 15:
[1] And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
[7] And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
Rev.16
[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.