Do Men Have Authority Over Women?
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
“Men” submit yourselves one to another. This is the obvious meaning here since we know that wives are to submit to their husbands.
No need to make Paul into a liar because a doctrine is odious to your fleshly mind and sensibilities.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Then why go out of your way to seemingly mock those who wish that all obey God’s word? It seems the topic of wives submission to their husbands bothers many.
Adam got in trouble for listening to his wife. Wise up men!!
“And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life” (Genesis 3:17)
I'm not mocking anyone, and that's no reason to assume negative things of others.
Have you ever noticed that nowhere is a man given blanket authority over women? Have you noticed that nowhere is a man given authority over his wife?
But how many men love to glory in their power?
This thread is not about a wife's submission to her husband.
"Do men have authority over women?"
This is partly my point. Men seem to like to take the statement "wives submit to their husbands" as the slaking of their lust for power. And here, the question, Do men have authority over women? No. We are to submit one to another. Rules for husbands and wives are not rules for everyone. I think that gets lost in that lust for power.
Wives are to submit to husbands, and husbands are to love their wives. Maybe the husbands will do a lot better to focus on their loving their wives. Maybe?
Much love!
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Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
A man would love an obedient wife.
But a disobedient wife is grievous to the soul; and in this case, if she continues without reformation:
“But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you. But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none” (1 Corinthians 7:28-29)
Because:
“the contentions of a wife are a continual dropping.” (Proverbs 19:13)
A man is to love his wife, period. And whether or not the wife is submissive, that doesn't determine whether or not her husband shall love her.
We are responsible to God for ourselves, and how we do or do not obey Him.
But again . . . the question of this thread is whether men have authority over women.
The case is made by extending a wife's submission to her husband as if all women are to submit to all men, which is utter nonsense. But many men's dream.
Much love!
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Oh well. What I've got meets my meager needs. A place I can hear the Word, a fellowship with whom I can pray, and a structure in which I can serve.
Bro, going on 19 years ago, God used a lady pastor to help me deal with some stuff in my past and draw me closer to Him in trust. It changed my life. There's nothing on God's green Earth you can say that will convince me that God did not call this woman to be a pastor.
Of course we fired her. According to my friend on Staff-Parish, one of the reasons was because she was a woman.
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I'm with you here...
Sure! God can use anybody to accomplish His purposes.
Might not the Holy Spirit have been at work to bring about that outcome?
Grace and peace to you, Lambano.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Utter nonsense you say?
No, IT IS BIBLICAL!
Have ye not read how Abigail behaved herself towards David BEFORE she was married to him? Bowing down before him and calling him “lord”?
“And when Abigail saw David, she hasted, and lighted off the ass, and fell before David on her face, and bowed herself to the ground, And fell at his feet, and said, Upon me, my lord, upon me let this iniquity be: and let thine handmaid, I pray thee, speak in thine audience, and hear the words of thine handmaid.” (1 Samuel 25:23-24)
The Bible has more than a handful of examples like this. Look at how Ruth behaved herself towards Boaz:
“Then she fell on her face, and bowed herself to the ground, and said unto him, Why have I found grace in thine eyes, that thou shouldest take knowledge of me, seeing I am a stranger? And Boaz answered and said unto her, It hath fully been shewed me, all that thou hast done unto thy mother in law since the death of thine husband: and how thou hast left thy father and thy mother, and the land of thy nativity, and art come unto a people which thou knewest not heretofore. The LORD recompense thy work, and a full reward be given thee of the LORD God of Israel, under whose wings thou art come to trust. Then she said, Let me find favour in thy sight, my lord; for that thou hast comforted me, and for that thou hast spoken friendly unto thine handmaid, though I be not like unto one of thine handmaidens.” (Ruth 2:10-13)
The state of Christianity is in shambles these days. Soo many Bibles and so little readers…
Right, and right. And again, I would add the question, "What does true biblical authority and true biblical submission look like? In Ephesians 5 in particular, just before Paul gives instruction to husbands and wives, He exhorts all of us ~ men and women alike, regardless of any position in society ~ to submit ourselves to one another out of reverence for Christ. That's worth really pondering, right?
So...
Yes, it is nonsense, that all women should submit to all men, unless you understand what true Biblical submission really is (not subservience), and that, as above, all women should submit to all men and women, and all men should submit to all men and women also. We are all to submit ourselves to one another out of reverence for Christ. But again, it is very important to understand what this submission really is.
Grace and peace to all.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
No.
Men are to submit one to one another.
You cannot void another doctrine by using another unrelated teaching.
The OP is nothing more than self serving silliness.
The Scriptures referenced are predicated upon.....
Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Which is a command from Paul to all disciples. Certain men prefer to focus upon their wives. Which is self serving and at times... diabolical.
We need some women to remind these silly men that the Scriptures demand husbands to be like Christ.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Giving THEM.... everything.
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Well, yes. Opinion noted. :)
Well, and to women, and women to women, and women to men, and, yes, men to women. We are all to submit to one another. Paul makes no mention of gender in Ephesians 5:1-21. And again, there's a misunderstanding of what biblical submission really is (again, it is not subservience).
Never would I do such a thing. Paul's teaching in the latter half of Ephesians 5 is not unrelated to the first half of Ephesians 5. I will say that the submission of the wife to the husband is on a much deeper ~ not more meaningful, but deeper ~ level than our submission to one another in reverence to Christ. Covenant marriage is a very covenantal undertaking, so the union of husband and wife is... well, understood correctly, it's really just absolutely breathtaking, if we really think about it. And we all together are the bride of Christ.
Grace and peace.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
You misunderstand.
These things were spoken to the church and to those who were to hear His voice. Obviously, many have not heard.
Those to whom these things were spoken, was to the Bride--of whom all before Christ are as women. Therefore, it is the church that is to submit to their Husband (Christ); the church that has no authority over the Bridegroom; and the church that is to be silent, that only the Holy Spirit sent by Jesus can be heard above the chatter.
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GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
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