Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Taken]

@kcnalp

Gods BookS, ie more that ONE BOOK.

Rev 20:
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The Book of Life.

Rev 3:
[5] He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

The Lambs Book of Life.

Rev 21:
[27] And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Work that glorify God are rewarded.

Matt 16:
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Works that do not glorify God, shall be burned.
A man will lose out on receiving a reward, if he has works that shall be burned.
Rewarded works, Burned works, DO NOT affect a mans SERVICE of receiving SALVATION. Salvation is via Service, not works.

1 Cor 3:
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

A man Reasonable Acceptable Service, is becoming Converted IN Christ...which IS one freely giving their flesh body as a living sacrifice unto death.
How many times did you give your flesh body as a living sacrifice unto death?
According to you?

Rom 12:
[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Can you answer?
What is YOUR teaching?
How many times does a man have to heartfully Confess BEFORE the Lord WILL change that man?
How many times WILL the Lord Change a man?
How many times CAN a man Power UNDO the Lords Powerful Works in a man?

I can NOT FIND ONE Scriptural teaching, of a MANS power being Greater than the Lords Power in a man.

@ kcnalp

Why are you avoiding Scripture like the plague?

Where in Scripture IS Repetitive OVER and OVER and OVER Receiving Gods Gift of Salvation Taught? Receiving Salvation, Losing Salvation, Receiving Salvation, Losing Salvation? WHERE?

How many times have you RECEIVED Gods Gift of SALVATION, and Gods Spirit “IN” you...to WEAK and INSUFFICIENT...to KEEP you SAVED?

Why do you AVOID how you gain and lose Gods Gift of Salvation?

 

[Taken]

Or maybe YOUR OSAS mind?

Nope...
Many men, like yourself, claim BELIEF, Believe in this, Believe in that, Follow along in what they Believe, “THEN CHANGE THEIR MINDS”, and Believe something else.

Gods Gift of Salvation is not given a man, while a man is alive in his flesh, for what he BELIEVES in his mind. Who cares? The mind is naturally subject to change. You think God cares what your MIND thinks? Or what you say, by your Minds thoughts?

Pay attention to what God thinks of your Carnal Minds thoughts...

Rom 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

You think God cares what CONFESSIONS you make to Him with your MINDS THOUGHTS....Newsflash...God does not Hear a sinful mans MINDS THOUGHTS CONFESSIONS OF ANYTHING!

You think MEN are impressed with your MINDS Thoughts Confessions?
Some men are impressed and fooled.
Other men KNOW Gods WAY, and are neither impressed or fooled.
And God Himself IS not fooled by a mans MINDFUL Confession of Belief.
As a matter of FACT...God EXPRESSLY REQUIRES a man HEARTS thoughts Confession of BELIEF, and then CHECKS “IF” a mans Confession IS or IS NOT, the mans HEARTS thoughts.

Nothing new, from OLD days to this...
Jer 17:
[10] I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Yep, you even quoted Rom 10:9.....yet made NO INFERENCE, NO DECLARATION, you believed IN YOUR HEART...

You give yourself away, AS IF, claiming belief is sufficient....when SCRIPTURE EXPRESSLY reveals “BELIEF in one’s HEART”....is the “IF” caveat, requirement.

Ya, your claims are suspect and are your accusations.

 

[PinSeeker]

OSAS is Satanic!

LOL... No... :)

Christianity is a "works" religion!
Revelation 20:13 (NKJV)
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

Well yes, but why do we do these works, KC? Who is really responsible for them? Read here and I think you'll see (unless you have your eyes closed, of course, which seems to be the case):

"But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace you have been saved ~ and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2).

"...if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law... the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires" (Galatians 5).

"...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Philippians 2).

"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, 'Go in peace, be warmed and filled,' without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, 'You have faith and I have works.' Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works" (James 2).

Grace and peace to you.

 

[marks]

I quoted the exact scripture that says what you said. How is that not correct?

That's like double-think.

No, it did not teach what you claimed.

It just didn't.

But if that's your view, and that's your foundation, OK, I understand.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

if that's your view, and that's your foundation, OK, I understand.

The important thing is that you understand that being a son birthed by the old covenant (Hagar) is not sufficient to enter into the kingdom of God. You must be born again of the New Covenant (Sarah). Law first, grace second.

 

[ScottA]

No Scripture? Of course not! OSAS is BOGUS!

All scripture.

But it is obvious that you do not know that, nor know the truth, because my whole post was full of scripture...and you did not see it. His sheep hear His voice--but you do not. Your claim is without any authority.

 

[marks]

The important thing is that you understand that being a son birthed by the old covenant (Hagar) is not sufficient to enter into the kingdom of God. You must be born again of the New Covenant (Sarah). Law first, grace second.

The important thing is to allow the Bible to speak as it speaks, and not tie together disparate things, removing the plain meaning from another passage as if this passage somehow spoke on the same topic, I should think.

There is no "son birthed by the old covenant". Abraham made the fleshy choice to "fulfill God's promise" by having a child his own way. This does not "define for us" "born of water" as being "born out of John's baptism", or something like that.

Much love!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

AGAIN, no Scripture, no surprise! ONLY personal attacks. OSASers are trying to convince themselves of OSAS. NO OTHER REASON!

Well, I guess he *IS* blind .....did anybody else see the clear Biblical Verse that I provide? Yeah, I thought so....Did you also note that he had no answer or any Scripture to refute the undeniable Truth contained in the verse?

AGAIN, no answer, no surprise ! ONLY personal attacks. Another confused , Bible- Ignorant “ Poor Student of the Word”...... God warns about these types .....He warns us to “ show yourself approved” lest we have to “ stand ashamed” .....kcnalp should be ashamed.....He is a “ poor student Of the Word”....proving it by his inability to refute a clear Bible Verse that a child could understand.....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

There is no "son birthed by the old covenant".

Yeah, okay...

"24 One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery" Galatians 4:24​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This does not "define for us" "born of water" as being "born out of John's baptism", or something like that.

The Bible interprets itself...

"6 Flesh is born of flesh" John 3:6

"29 the son born by the flesh" Galatians 4:29
​

John's baptism of repentance in the old covenant birthed a son born by the flesh; flesh born of flesh. Faith in Christ according to the New Covenant births a son born of the Spirit. Only the spiritual man born by way of the New Covenant can see and enter into the kingdom of God. Old covenant birth via the waters of John's baptism for repentance is not enough to see and enter into the kingdom of God. Thus Jesus' admonition, "You must be born again", by the Spirit to enter the kingdom.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Well, I guess he *IS* blind .....did anybody else see the clear Biblical Verse that I provide? Yeah, I thought so....Did you also note that he had no answer or any Scripture to refute the undeniable Truth contained in the verse?

AGAIN, no answer, no surprise ! ONLY personal attacks. Another confused , Bible- Ignorant “ Poor Student of the Word”...... God warns about these types .....He warns us to “ show yourself approved” lest we have to “ stand ashamed” .....kcnalp should be ashamed.....He is a “ poor student Of the Word”....proving it by his inability to refute a clear Bible Verse that a child could understand.....

What matters is that you believe.

 

[Taken]

Once Saved, Always Saved?
OP^

? Yes.

 

[marks]

The Bible interprets itself...

"6 Flesh is born of flesh" John 3:6

"29 the son born by the flesh" Galatians 4:29
​

John's baptism of repentance in the old covenant birthed a son born by the flesh; flesh born of flesh. Faith in Christ according to the New Covenant births a son born of the Spirit. Only the spiritual man born by way of the New Covenant can see and enter into the kingdom of God. Old covenant birth via the waters of John's baptism for repentance is not enough to see and enter into the kingdom of God. Thus Jesus' admonition, "You must be born again", by the Spirit to enter the kingdom.

That the same words appear means nothing.

Acts 2:29-31 KJV
29) Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30) Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

That Christ is accounted the fruit of David "according to the flesh" clearly does not mean that Christ is rejected, for instance.

Much love!

 

[Ezra]

Once Saved, Always Saved?
OP^

? Yes.

truly saved living how one pleases no odds are never was saved

 

[marks]

Yeah, okay...

"24 One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery" Galatians 4:24​

You have perhaps the strangest idea of rebirth I've ever in my life heard.

Galatians 4:21-26 KJV
21) Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22) For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23) But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24) Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25) For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26) But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

John 3:3-8 KJV
3) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4) Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Do you really see then 3 births? Once when you are born of your mother, once when you repent of your sin, and once when you are born again?

And are you thinking that Nicodemas had been baptized by John, but Jesus was telling him that wasn't enough?

Much love!

 

[Taken]

truly saved living how one pleases no odds are never was saved

Not sure what you are trying to say.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You have perhaps the strangest idea of rebirth I've ever in my life heard.

No, not REbirth, lol. The old covenant does not represent rebirth. The New Covenant does.

The old covenant (figuratively, Hagar) births a son that is a slave to sin. That person, baptized in Moses, can not and will not enter into the kingdom. That person must be born again, from above, by the Spirit. That's what Jesus came to proclaim to a nation of Israelites baptized by John for repentance to the law of Moses preparing the way for Jesus and rebirth by the Spirit.

 

[Ezra]

Not sure what you are trying to say.

those truly saved will remain/abide if one says there saved yet lives different with out making a effort odds are never saved.

 

[marks]

No, not REbirth, lol. The old covenant does not represent rebirth. The New Covenant does.

The old covenant (figuratively, Hagar) births a son that is a slave to sin. That person, baptized in Moses, can not and will not enter into the kingdom. That person must be born again, from above, by the Spirit. That's what Jesus came to proclaim to a nation of Israelites baptized by John for repentance to the law of Moses preparing the way for Jesus and rebirth by the Spirit.

OK, but you've been saying "that which is born of flesh is flesh", that this refers to repentance before spiritual birth, isn't that right? Like at John's baptism? So there is the initial birth, then a "rebirth" in repentance, and finally, another "rebirth" of the spirit. Is that not what you've been describing?

I'll like to be misunderstanding you, actually, at this moment. I'm hoping I am, and that this isn't what you are saying.

That the "flesh born of flesh" that this doesn't mean the original being born from your mother, so "flesh born of flesh" is its own defacto rebirth.

?

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Do you really see then 3 births? Once when you are born of your mother, once when you repent of your sin, and once when you are born again?

No, two births: One by the covenant of the law (Hagar), and the other by the covenant of promise (Sarah).

"23His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born through the promise.24These things serve as illustrations, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother." Galatians 4:23-26
​

You see this theme all through scripture. Natural first, spiritual second. Adam first, Jesus second. Cain first, Abel second. Ishmael first, Isaac second. Esau first, Jacob second. Perez first, Zerah second. Manasseh first, Ephraim second. The spiritual man who inherits the blessing always follows the natural man. Our human, natural expectancy is the eldest son, the son born first, inherits the blessing. We all start out as a natural man in the fleshly effort of our selves and we think that makes us a son born in line for the inheritance. But it is the son born second, the spiritual man who, against all natural expectation, inherits the blessing. This has been the plan all along. "The older will serve the younger" (Romans 9:12, Genesis 25:23). In the kingdom of God the man born later of the New Covenant of grace will rule over and inherit the blessing over and above the man born first by the old covenant of works. This principle is illustrated all through scripture to show us the man born of the self effort of law does not inherit the kingdom. The man born later, of the Spirit, does. You must be born again, of the Spirit.

"46The spiritual, however, was not first, but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so also are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so also shall we bear the likeness of the heavenly man." 1 Corinthians 15:46-49
​

Each of us has this epic struggle inside of us: Two men born by the same word of God, but the one born later by the Spirit, the spiritual man, will rule over the one born first:

“Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger.” Genesis 25:23​