Timing of Eze 37 and 38 pre Trib?

[Keraz]

The word confirmed there does not mean what you think it does! It is not the same as we define it today. And the many is with Israel! Context demands it! It is with the many in Israel.

If by 'Israel', you mean the mixed race peoples currently inhabiting a small part of the holy Land; then you are wrong.
Over 20 Prophesies say how all the peoples currently living in the Middle East region, will be gone after the Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Only a remnant of faithful Jews will survive. Isaiah 6:11-13, Romans 9:27

The 'many' who will agree with the 7 year treaty, will be Christian peoples, who are by that time occupying all of the holy Land. Isaiah 62:1-5, Romans 9:24-26, +
Proved by Daniel 11:32, Zechariah 14:2b and Revelation 12:6-17, where we are told how the Christian people will be divided into two groups.

 

[ewq1938]

So is Revelation 19:11-14, the way thieves come?

The event in which Jesus does come unexpectedly, is the Sixth Seal; His terrible Day of vengeance and fiery wrath.
Only confusion results if they are thought to be one and the same Day as His Return.

The 6th seal describes the day of the second coming, the same day Armageddon happens.

 

[Keraz]

The 6th seal describes the day of the second coming, the same day Armageddon happens.

That idea is simply impossible.
Jesus dos not destroy the world He has come to reign and rule over.
Revelation 19:11-21 is plainly stated; Jesus only destroys the armies assembled at Armageddon and fire is not used then, as the corpses are for the carrion feeders.

Your belief constitutes a shuffling; adding to and taking away from the Book of Revelation. Not advisable.

 

[ewq1938]

That idea is simply impossible.
Jesus dos not destroy the world He has come to reign and rule over. Revelation 19:11-21 is plainly stated; Jesus only destroys the armies assembled at Armageddon and fire is not used then, as the corpses are for the carrion feeders.

Yeah I know. I'm Premill

Your belief constitutes a shuffling; adding to and taking away from the Book of Revelation. Not advisable.

Your accusation is baseless and false.

 

[Keraz]

Yeah I know. I'm Premill

A belief completely without Biblical support. The end times will be a surprise to you.

Your accusation is baseless and false.

I said that to shift the Sixth Seal event, Revelation 6:12-17, to the Day of Jesus' Return, Revelation 19:11, incurs the curses of Revelation 22:18-19. That is exactly what you have done.

 

[ewq1938]

A belief completely without Biblical support. The end times will be a surprise to you.

I said that to shift the Sixth Seal event, Revelation 6:12-17, to the Day of Jesus' Return, Revelation 19:11, incurs the curses of Revelation 22:18-19. That is exactly what you have done.

You are wrong.

 

[Timtofly]

You are wrong because when you read the bible you seem to throw out grammar!

The word confirmed there does not mean what you think it does! It is not the same as we define it today. And the many is with Israel! Context demands it! It is with the many in Israel.

YOu see the word covenant and you force Dan. 9:27 to mean the New covenant which it does not mean that.

Jesus is Messiah the Prince, but He is not the Prince of the people who destroy the sanctuary. If you read the Bible as you are supposed to, you would know that!

So you say jesus confirms teh covenant- so the New covenant is only for 7 years then according to you! Well thank God it is not HIs Word!

Also in the middle fo the 70th week, which has not occurred yet- Jesus did not cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease!

First of all there is only one covenant with mankind since the foundation of heaven and earth. It is for the redemption of Adam's descendents. There is only a few months left in the 70th week. No where in Scripture is there a 7 year covenant. The Atonement was to cover all 6,000 years of humanity. Why are you putting any limits on the Atonement? This is the end of the line. This is the time of the final harvest. So confirming the covenant is the reason that desolation comes for 42 months. God is longsuffering and will even allow time for Satan to be in control, just to extend an opportunity 42 months longer so more humans are saved from eternal death.

 

[Davy]

So is Revelation 19:11-14, the way thieves come?

The event in which Jesus does come unexpectedly, is the Sixth Seal; His terrible Day of vengeance and fiery wrath.
Only confusion results if they are thought to be one and the same Day as His Return.

Jesus comes on a white horse per the Revelation 19:11 verse, but that is the SAME timing as His coming "as a thief" LIKE HE SAID in Revelation 16:15.

But YOU refuse to believe what He said in Revelation 16:15, and that means also what He taught symbolically with the idea of His coming being like a thief breaking in, per Matthew 24. Because you won't believe Jesus, YOUR doctrine falls completely apart.

 

[Keraz]

You are wrong.

The Prophetic Word is right.
It says the Sixth Seal will happen quite some time before Jesus Returns.

You and all who have chosen to believe in theories and ideas, which have no proper Biblical support, still have a little time left to get it right and be ready for all that must happen in our future. But to keep on believing in and what is much worse; promoting those false theories, leaves people unprepared for the forthcoming dramatic events.
God has well informed us of His plans, to believe in anything else is to take a risk on our Eternal Salvation.

 

[Davy]

It says the Sixth Seal will happen quite some time before Jesus Returns.
....

No, Rev.6 says no such thing.

The 6th Seal shows the heavens like a scroll is rolled together on that Seal, and it is the time of God's Wrath upon the wicked. That is a PARALLEL to the events of the 7th Trumpet and 7th Vial when God's cup of Wrath is poured out on the last day of this world, along with the time of Jesus' coming to gather His faithful.

 

[Keraz]

Jesus comes on a white horse per the Revelation 19:11 verse, but that is the SAME timing as His coming "as a thief" LIKE HE SAID in Revelation 16:15.

The destruction of the world's armies at Armageddon; will come suddenly and unexpectedly to them.
We Christians will know exactly when Jesus will Return, as it will be 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated.

But the prophecy of Jesus in Matthew 24:37-44 and Luke 21:34-35 are not related to the Return. They refer to the terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath; an event similar in magnitude as Noah's Flood. The Sixth Seal world changer.

 

[Keraz]

No, Rev.6 says no such thing.

The prophesies between Revelation 7 and Rev 19:10, make a time gap quite clear. Also we have the 70th 'week' - a 7 year period yet to happen, between the Sixth Seal and the Return.

The 6th Seal shows the heavens like a scroll is rolled together on that Seal, and it is the time of God's Wrath upon the wicked. That is a PARALLEL to the events of the 7th Trumpet and 7th Vial when God's cup of Wrath is poured out on the last day of this world, along with the time of Jesus' coming to gather His faithful.

The 6th Seal, the 7th Trumpet and the 7th Bowl, are all different events and will happen in their as Written sequence.
The Last Day of this earth, Revelation 21:1-7, says nothing about God's wrath.
Your beliefs are very confused and do not conform to what the Bible says.

Please write out in full the prophesies of the Sixth Seal, the 7th Trumpet and the 7th Bowl, and show just how they are parallel.

 

[ewq1938]

The Prophetic Word is right.
It says the Sixth Seal will happen quite some time before Jesus Returns.

It says no such thing. You don't understand the seals and what they actually are and are not. There is ONE second coming not two! Your theology here is just as bad as pretrib with their double second comings.

 

[ewq1938]

We Christians will know exactly when Jesus will Return, as it will be 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated.

The 1260 days is for the two witnesses. The beasts time is written in months, 42. That shouldn't be confused because it's possible the 1260 days starts 3.5 days before the 42 months do based on the two prophets being dead for 3.5 days before the beast's reign ends.

 

[Keraz]

It says no such thing. You don't understand the seals and what they actually are and are not. There is ONE second coming not two! Your theology here is just as bad as pretrib with their double second comings.

The Seals are actually self explanatory. the first four are all the wars, famines and plagues we have experienced.
The Fifth Seal is all the martyrs since Stephen.
The Sixth seal will be the fulfillment of the over 100 prophesies about another reset of our civilization. As God did in the days of Noah.
The Seventh Seal is a time gap of a half hour in heaven, which will be about 15-20 earth years.

The prophesies that say the Lord 'comes' in fire do not say He will be seen at that time. They say He will be hidden. Psalms 18:11, Habakkuk 3:4 and Psalms 11:4-6, Amos 1, plainly say He will send His fiery wrath.

 

[ewq1938]

I noticed that false doctrines have something in common:

Pretrib has a coming of Christ before the Great Tribulation and one after it.

Partial preterism has a coming at 70AD and one after the Great Tribulation.

Those who teach there is a coming when the 6th seal is opened also have one after the Great Tribulation. (Revelation 19)

These are all wrong. There is ONE coming left, not two.

Pretrib is wrong because both Paul and Christ placed the rapture AFTER the Great Tribulation ends.

Partial preterism is wrong because there was no coming of Christ in 70AD.

The 6th seal people are wrong because they don't understand the seals are just information about events that happen in the trumps. No coming happens when Christ opens the 6th seal.

 

[ewq1938]

plainly say He will send His fiery wrath.

There is no such thing as "fiery wrath" in any part of the second coming. That's an Amillennial fairly tale. He uses a symbolic sword to kill people.

 

[Keraz]

There is no such thing as "fiery wrath" in any part of the second coming. That's an Amillennial fairly tale. He uses a symbolic sword to kill people.

If you bothered to read properly what I and other people say, you should know that I am not AMill, nor do I believe in any wrath, fiery or not, when Jesus Returns. He merely uses the Sword of His Word to wipe out the armies at Armageddon.

I do not see further conversation with you as being as being worth my time.

 

[ewq1938]

If you bothered to read properly what I and other people say, you should know that I am not AMill

lol. If you bothered to read properly I didn't say you were Amill. I only said you were holding a position most amills hold. I do not see further conversation with you as being as being worth my time.

 

[Davy]

The destruction of the world's armies at Armageddon; will come suddenly and unexpectedly to them.

That's right, and that will happen on the LAST DAY of this world, which is when Jesus comes to gather His faithful Church, and not before. That is why Apostles Paul and Peter showed the "day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night", and Jesus showed His coming will be "as a thief". The metaphors in God's Word serve as condensed in-depth information, so they are not just to be passed over as embellished speech.