It seems that you have your “ FACTS” wrong, sir......I am 100% OSAS —— the most Staunch OSAS person IN here, and I don’t think that YOU or ANYBODY ELSE is “ Damned” for not Believing in OSAS.......I think that your Christian Walk is just a beggarly one , bereft of any Assurance and the unspeakable Joy that accompanies that Assurance..... I could be wrong because to be Saved you must Believe both parts of Paul’s Gospel that was Given to Him by Jesus personally...Paul said That his Gospel was to be what you are going to be judged by come Judgement Day...The first half of that Saving Gospel declares that “ Jesus died for your Sins” .....if one REALLY BELIEVES that, OSAS is a moot point.....If Jesus died for my sins, what sin could cause me to lose my Salvation?
Once Saved, Always Saved?
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It seems that you have your “ FACTS” wrong, sir......I am 100% OSAS —— the most Staunch OSAS person IN here, and I don’t think that YOU or ANYBODY ELSE is “ Damned” for not Believing in OSAS.......I think that your Christian Walk is just a beggarly one , bereft of any Assurance and the unspeakable Joy that accompanies that Assurance..... I could be wrong because to be Saved you must Believe both parts of Paul’s Gospel that was Given to Him by Jesus personally...Paul said That his Gospel was to be what you are going to be judged by come Judgement Day...The first half of that Saving Gospel declares that “ Jesus died for your Sins” .....if one REALLY BELIEVES that, OSAS is a moot point.....If Jesus died for my sins, what sin could cause me to lose my Salvation?
“And who is it that overcomes the world( in other words” ENDURES” ) But he that Believes that Jesus is the Son Of God “ ......got anything else?
Thanks for finally settling this once and for all with this brilliant argument ....who needs “ chapter and verse?”.......all one needs to do is just take your word for it .....Kudos for putting in all that time to arrive at this conclusion...
Sorry, but that old Canard is covered also.....if a man gets saved and *LATER* might decide to “forsake God”,that would be a FUTURE event wouldn't it.....The Bible says that “ Nothing in the Future” will cause a Believe to fall from the Grip of God....it’s back to the drawing board for k c.....
It was said of Lydia, the Seller Of Purple in the Book Of Acts That God “ opened her heart” to the reception of the Gospel ......why would it be different for anybody else? “ Nobody comes to God lest the Spirit draw them..... that is a Truth That will never change.....
Nobody is going to be judged on Judgement by their stand on OSAS vs. NOSAS.....Paul informs us in Romans that we are going to be judged by “ his Gospel”........ the one Found In 1Cor15:1-4....... it’s got *TWO* parts......The first part is “ Jesus died for your sins”..... The second part is that He rose from the dead.....no doubt you believe that second part but if you Believed the FIRST part you would be forced to acknowledge that if Jesus died for your sins, what sin could you be lost over? The answer is “ none” .....You would understand that OSAS *MUST* be True, whether you like it or not.....one has to believe BOTH PARTS of the Gospel to be Saved......your problem is— and your fear should be —you just don’t Believe the Gospel.Scary .
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
...And living in sin as a lifestyle is the sign of the unbeliever.
That is the gospel. The result of which is the believer is no longer a slave to lawlessness. They may struggle with sin, but they do not live in it. They can't because they have God's seed in them and are born again - 1 John 3:9.
I thank God for his grace. I do not have sin in my life as a way of life. If I did I'd be showing myself to be an unbeliever. But as it is, I am a believer. I am changed. I am converted. Therefore, sin is no longer my way of life as it used to be. That's how you can tell if you really believe and are really saved. Your life will show it (James 2:18). Believers don't live in sin like they did before they were born again.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Oh, I don't care what you think about what I said the passage is actually talking about. The important take-a-way here is that you understand that saying 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 means a person who claims to believe is still saved even if they have no works of righteousness and choose to live in their old life makes John a liar in 1 John 3:9-10. But that is what the new OSAS says. The new OSAS makes John a liar.
"9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God" 1 John 3:9-10
See it? "Anyone who does not practice righteousness IS NOT OF GOD." So stop comforting fake, lip service only Christians that they are saved when they really aren't at all. The proof of salvation is how you live, not what you say you believe.
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Our friendly, neighborhood ( usually self- righteous) “ Fruit Inspectors” need to know that many changes In the Believer That has a New Heart are Internal and any outward change can take years to be seen by those that would be better off worrying about their own struggles....as James said—- “ We ALL Stumble” at times....
So what is John talking about when he says no one who lives in him keeps on sinning? There are two ways to read this.
Someone schooled in the sticks and carrots of the old covenant will interpret these words as a threat. “If you want to remain in him and stay saved, you had better stop sinning. Don’t be deceived. God is holy and intolerant of sin. Slip up and you’re outta here!”
What an awful distortion of God’s Love
Can you imagine being married to someone who threatened to kick you out every time you made a mistake? You would be an emotional wreck. You would walk on eggshells for fear of upsetting your hyper-sensitive and ungracious partner.This is exactly how many Christians live. they are filled with performance anxiety. They are ever fearful of enraging a temperamental God.
Look to the cross! If God loved you enough to die for you when you were a sinner, he surely loves you now.
Stop looking at the verse as a Threat——it’s a Promise!
If you want to “ practice Righteousness” Rest in the Gospel Of Grace ....That is the way to please God.....Do “ that” and the sin problem will take care of itself....natural- like .....it’s accomplished by the in- dwelling Holy Spirit —- you supply the Trust and God takes care of the rest....
The first step into the abundant life is to be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ. The next step is the one we must constantly make, that is believing that we actually are reconciled to God, through Jesus Christ and not ourselves. Then all that "performance pressure" that tanks our every effort is removed, and our burden becomes light, and we can walk in trust in Jesus, not concerned over our self.
Much love!
Indeed we do! And we need to be real careful about judging by appearances and not according to righteousness.
And how easy is it to judge others and not see the same things in one's self? It seems to me that the one's who more clearly see themselves have gained the humility to not judge others by appearances. I think something we need to question is, How complicit is pride in my thoughts?
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
The sin of unrepentant unbelief. That one.
No, you do not have to know the truth about OSAS to be saved. What you have to be to be saved is a believer. See, this argument about OSAS boils down to whether or not a believer can stop believing. But what does it matter? Either way, a person has to be a believer in order to be saved now and when Jesus comes back. Settling the argument about OSAS doesn't change that.
So let's do the work that matters, and which will result in reward for us at the resurrection. Let's exhort people to believe and to continue to believe. And to prove their faith by turning away from sin. That is the Bible message. Doing that will result in you raising up people in the field and building of God who will make it through the fire at the end of the age and who will be a reward for us on the other side.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Then there's no such thing as a fake believer. Obviously, an unbeliever can utter the words "Jesus is Lord". That's what makes them fake; they have a profession of faith, but no change of life to match their profession of faith. So, obviously, Paul meant something other than what you say he meant in 1 Corinthians 12:3.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
They aren't born again. That's what he's talking about. 1 John 3:9.
No change means no change.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
That's not the argument, lol.
1) First off, if you remain unchanged after supposedly getting saved, you didn't really get saved. Which is good news because there may still be hope for you.
2) The argument is the word of God must continue to abide in you in order for you to abide in Him. In other words, continued believing is how you continue in the Son and the Father. There is no argument being made that you remain in him and stay saved by not sinning.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Examining your fruit is how you 'make your calling and election sure'. You look for the fruit of your faith, the fruit of the Spirit. No fruit means no faith, no Spirit. It's that simple. That's why the Bible tells us to strive to produce the qualities of the Spirit...so we can know we are really saved. In your doctrine, there is no way to know you are really saved and really ready to face Christ at the Judgment. Because anybody can say they have faith (that's what fake believers are all about). Only those who really do have faith can live for God. Here...James is writing this to you:
"Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." James 2:18
1 Peter 1:22-23 KJV
22) Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
We are blessed indeed!
In other words, continued believing is how you continue in the Son and the Father
You would take the credit for God's work? I don't think I'm going to try that.
1 Peter 1:3-5 KJV
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
The power is God's, and His method for working His keeping power is faith unto salvation. And the power is God's, and He is the One Who keeps us.
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
We're not talking about stumbling. All true Christians stumble and bump their heads on the proverbial coffee table as they're growing up and learning to walk in the Spirit. What we're talking about here is outright unbelief. The unbelieving person doesn't stumble. They live in their sin, just as if they'd never been born again. Because they haven't been born again. That's what John says, not me.
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