Adrian Rogers Shows Calvinism to Be FALSE
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Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
ohhhh yeaaaaa.
Calvinists believe that God really means to accomplish, through the atonement, the conversion of a definite (limited) group of people, not just hold out the opportunity to all people to believe.
Total depravity says that sin has so twisted us that apart from grace, we love other things more than we love God. Our minds, our bodies, our affections, our spirits—every part of us has been affected by sin, and of our own accord, we cannot escape this predicament. God has not stopped loving His creation, however (John 3:16). And in His love, He restrains sin, keeping us from being as bad as we possibly could be. Thus, even those who do not know Christ can do things that are outwardly good. They can be good neighbors, love their children, and so on. However, outside of grace, none of us does these things with the right motivation to love and glorify God.
Listen to Jesus' response in John chapter 5, to the Jews who wanted to murder Him
24 “Truly I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life. 25 “Truly I tell you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
How can Jesus tell these murdering Jews, that they can "hear" His Words, and can "believe" in God? And, though spiritually "dead", they can still "hear" His Voice, and those who respond to it, will live? If "Total depravity", means that the lost sinner cannot "hear" the inward Gospel Call, and believe and be saved, then these words by Jesus are without meaning
Not only this, Jesus goes on to say to these same Jews
34 I don’t receive human testimony, but I say these things so that you may be saved
Jesus is telling them all of what He does, because He wants them to be saved!
And
39 You pore over the Scriptures because you think you have eternal life in them, and yet they testify about me. 40 But you are not willing to come to me so that you may have life.
Jesus tells them, that they are UNWILLING to Come to Him, that they may have Eternal Life!
There is ZERO Bible evidence that these Jews were ever saved. So they were not "elect", and yet Jesus tells them all of this!
This chapter shows much of Calvinism to be ERROR!
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
This will help show you the error in your thinking.
TULIP and Reformed Theology: Unconditional Election
TULIP and Reformed Theology: Unconditional Election
RCS, was a CALVINIST, so his thinking was as a CALVINIST, and he could not see past that!
John 3:16-18, some, who take the Bible at face value, and for what it exactly says, will say that God loves the entire human race, and those out of this race, who believe in Jesus Christ, will be saved; and those who don't believe, will be damned to eternal punishment. Then we have those, who for theological gain, will force its plain meaning, to say that the world here means only "the elect", which then leaves us with the absurdity, that some of this "world/elect", will not believe, and be damned! TULI of TULIP is rendered UNBIBLICAL from these three verses. I am yet to see anynone who is honest in their interpretation, use this for their "Calvinism/Reformed" theology. Only those who wrest with the Word of God, will do so!
Now show from this passage, that I am wrong
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
Im a calvinist presbyterian, same as RC Sproul was. TULIP is Biblical, and how we know it is comes down to do you believe in the T of TULIP? Total depravity. If you believe that as a result of the fall in the garden, mankind became totally depraved, then the ULIP is true and explains the journey of how our salvation occurs.
Typical of the classic "Calvinstic" response, ignore what Jesus says in John 5!
Further, even the man who teachings you probably follow, John Calvin, was himself not a "FIVE POINTER"!
John 3:16;
“That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.
on John 1:29;
“Who taketh away the sin of the world. He uses the word sin in the singular number, for any kind of iniquity; as if he had said, that every kind of unrighteousness which alienates men from God is taken away by Christ. And when he says, the sin Of The World, he extends this favor indiscriminately to the whole human race; that the Jews might not think that he had been sent to them alone. But hence we infer that the whole world is involved in the same condemnation; and that as all men without exception are guilty of unrighteousness before God, they need to be reconciled to him. John the Baptist, therefore, by speaking generally of the sin of the world, intended to impress upon us the conviction of our own misery, and to exhort us to seek the remedy. Now our duty is, to embrace the benefit which is offered to all, that each of us may be convinced that there is nothing to hinder him from obtaining reconciliation in Christ, provided that he comes to him by the guidance of faith.”
Romans 5:18;
“He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God's benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him”
Mark 14:24;
“Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race”
etc, etc
Now, Calvin is appealed to by almost all who hold to TULIP or/and the Five Points of Calvinism, and yet his own words show that he did not accept the L!
John Calvin PROVES that TULIP is UNBIBLICAL!
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
John calvin was indeed a 5 pointer. He just had a hard time accepting it as it spells doom for so many.
I have shown this several times in another thread. Calvin's commentaries refute Five Point Calvinism, but his Institutes support it. So we have a double-minded man here.
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
Uh oh, you done went and got enoch stirred up on calvinism.
Calvinism is not consistent or even Biblical, especially when it comes to the salvation of sinners.
Iv'e listened to this man and he is wrong..are you lazy in reading the Calvinists viewpoint and then do your research in your futile attempt to debunk Calvinists...?
Doctrine of election and total depravity is not easily digestible yet biblical?
Listen to A.W. PINK as he expounds on this doctrine, to Owen, to Spurgeon, to Gill, to Luther, Edwards, and Bunyan...ever examined yourself in the light of Scriptures...they are true Christians as opposed to this modern day "live like the world, dress like the world, sin like the word, smell like the world and play like the world" type of watered down Christianity.
Guess it won't be long before I am booted out or excommunicated for standing FOR the (Definite Article) truth as found in Christ Jesus and revealed in the Holy writ.
The simplicity of the gospel confounds the wise in their own eyes..
Blessings
Johann
all a bunch of CALVINISTS! Calvin himself was no "Calvinist" has he never believed in, or taught the L in TULIP!
So, to call yourselves "Calvinists", as though you are following the teachings of John Calvin, is FALSE!
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
you say CALVINISTS!! Like we’re basement dwelling monkeys or something.
So if calvin didnt believe in limited atonement, then where did that concept come from??
apart from a very few "Calvinists", like John Calvin, and Robert Dabney, etc, the greater majority have perverted what John 3:16-18 says. Dabney gets it completely right, when he says of the use of "world" here
“In Jno.iii.16, make ‘the world’ which Christ loved, to mean ‘the elect world’, and we reach the absurdity, that some of the elect may not believe, and perish…since Christ made expiation for every man” (Systematic Theology, p.525)
Yet "Calvinists" will keep on pushing their false understanding of this passage!
You ask, "where did that concept come from?" short answer, NOT THE BIBLE!
Interesting...since the last of the reformers died, Armenism, Deism and Unitarianism and many heteros "-isms" and "-schisms" are now rampant in the world..on a number of occasions I have said, let us put away the Reformers teachings and study ourselves if this is true..so far I have found it to be true.
For your information, I am not a Calvanist and certainly not affiliated with the over 6,000 and climbing divers denominations, each one claiming they have the truth.
I am here to learn and be edified by the genuine believers in Y'hoshuwa HaMashiach on this forum.
You must be an Armenian in your worldview.
I am in safe hands, in my Master's hands and no one can pluck me out of His hand..
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Rom 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
Rom 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
Blessings
J.:)
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