Adrian Rogers Shows Calvinism to Be FALSE

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Mjh29

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John Parkhurst makes very little sense with his interpretation: "believers and unbelievers" .... let's plug that definition in, shall we?

"The [if both believers and unbelievers alike] believe in him shall not perish...

Wait. How can unbelievers be believers? Unbelievers by definition do not believe. So.... no?
 

Mjh29

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this is what john calvin said about john 3:16;
That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.

Let us remember, on the other hand, that while life is promised universally to all who believe in Christ, still faith is not common to all. For Christ is made known and held out to the view of all, but the elect alone are they whose eyes God opens, that they may seek him by faith. Here, too, is displayed a wonderful effect of faith; for by it we receive Christ such as he is given to us by the Father — that is, as having freed us from the condemnation of eternal death, and made us heirs of eternal life, because, by the sacrifice of his death, he has atoned for our sins, that nothing may prevent God from acknowledging us as his sons. Since, therefore, faith embraces Christ, with the efficacy of his death and the fruit of his resurrection, we need not wonder if by it we obtain likewise the life of Christ.”

an easier way of saying this would be, the World is the enemy of God, yet still while “WE”were sinners, or of the World, He did have a plan to save some, the elect, from hell. To be saved is to be removed from the rest of the remaining Worldly people.

Precisely. It's like saying "All lemons, every last lemon.... EVERY lemon is sour" and the someone saying "HA! SEE?!?! All fruits are lemons!!!"

Um.... no? Just because all lemons [whosoever believes in him] are sour [will have eternal life] does not state in any way that every fruit is a lemon.
 
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ByGraceThroughFaith

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still faith is not common to all. For Christ is made known and held out to the view of all, but the elect alone are they whose eyes God opens, that they may seek him by faith

IF, as you say, that saving faith is GIFTED only to the ELECT, then tell me how the Bible can say

"Anyone who believes in him is not condemned, but anyone who does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God...The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who rejects the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him" (John 3:18, 36)

This passage is clear, that those who do not believe, will be eternally condemned, because, as Jesus says, "About sin, because they do not believe in Me" (John 16:9). BUT, if both FAITH and REPENTANCE are both GIFTS from God, given only to the ELECT; then HOW can God condemn the NON-ELECT for not believing, when He has made sure that they CANNOT, as He has not given these the GIFTS of FAITH and REPENTANCE, to do so? This theology makes God UNFAIR.
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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John Parkhurst makes very little sense with his interpretation: "believers and unbelievers" .... let's plug that definition in, shall we?

"The [if both believers and unbelievers alike] believe in him shall not perish...

Wait. How can unbelievers be believers? Unbelievers by definition do not believe. So.... no?

What Parkhurst is saying, is that the word WORLD used in John 3:16, is UNIVERSAL, and includes both those who will become "believers", and those who will not. The entire human race.
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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Exactly. Mankind. Any human KIND of person from any walk of life. God does not look at a poor man and say "nope he doesn't meet the criteria to be elect because he's poor" or "Oh nope sorry, my elect can't have that skin color" ; God invites all men without racial, background, monetary or any other kind of distinction other than His holy ordination from the beginning of time. What He is saying is that God did not elect people based upon anything; ALL kinds of men are welcome. But not every man ever.

either WORLD in John 3:16, is UNIVERSAL, or only for the ELECT. That is it. What say ye?
 

Lifelong_sinner

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BUT, if both FAITH and REPENTANCE are both GIFTS from God, given only to the ELECT; then HOW can God condemn the NON-ELECT for not believing, when He has made sure that they CANNOT, as He has not given these the GIFTS of FAITH and REPENTANCE, to do so? This theology makes God UNFAIR.

this is where most people get hung up on what they want, AKA ego, and what paul had to say in Romans chpt 9.
Romans 9:17-21 “For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.”

So right there we see that pharoah was created for a purpose of glorifying God as we all are, yet pharoah was also predestined for hell. Paul goes on to THE answer of not agreeing with the doctrine of election.

“19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?”

who are you to talk back to God. Who are you to question His purpose for you? Verse 20 makes it clear that regardless of your final destination, you have no choice and you have no argument as to whether or not its fair. We are the clay, He is the potter.
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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this is where most people get hung up on what they want, AKA ego, and what paul had to say in Romans chpt 9.
Romans 9:17-21 “For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.”

So right there we see that pharoah was created for a purpose of glorifying God as we all are, yet pharoah was also predestined for hell. Paul goes on to THE answer of not agreeing with the doctrine of election.

“19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?”

who are you to talk back to God. Who are you to question His purpose for you? Verse 20 makes it clear that regardless of your final destination, you have no choice and you have no argument as to whether or not its fair. We are the clay, He is the potter.

what does the Bible say in Romans 11:32? "For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all"

We have two uses of ALL, the first the entire human race, both Jews and Gentiles; and second those who will repent and believe the Gospel. The passage you quote from in Romans 9, has nothing to do with SALVATION, but to show that God's Purposes are not determined by us humans, but on His own WILL. Reformed theology try to hijack plain Scriptures for their own purposes!
 

Lifelong_sinner

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what does the Bible say in Romans 11:32? "For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all"

We have two uses of ALL, the first the entire human race, both Jews and Gentiles; and second those who will repent and believe the Gospel. The passage you quote from in Romans 9, has nothing to do with SALVATION, but to show that God's Purposes are not determined by us humans, but on His own WILL. Reformed theology try to hijack plain Scriptures for their own purposes!

are you serious????? Romans 9 has nothing to do with salvation???? If you honestly believe that, theres no need to continue this discussion. And you’re sounding more and more like a universalist, which is heresy.
Paul is not teaching that every single person, of all time, will receive God's mercy. This idea, known as universalism, would contradict what Paul has written previously: that the only way to be saved is by accepting Christ (Romans 10:9–10).

john piper had this to say,
Romans 11:30-32 is the summary of the main point of this chapter, namely, that God has designed and guided history—both its disobedience and its obedience—so that in the end it will most fully display the reliability of his promises and the magnificence of his mercy—to prevent human pride and produce white-hot worship. Verse 29: “The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” In other words, the gifts and callings by which he completes his plans in history are infallible. God designs and guides history irrevocably.”

the fact that romans 9 confirms everything john calvin said makes you mad. It shouldnt.
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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are you serious????? Romans 9 has nothing to do with salvation???? If you honestly believe that, theres no need to continue this discussion. And you’re sounding more and more like a universalist, which is heresy.
Paul is not teaching that every single person, of all time, will receive God's mercy. This idea, known as universalism, would contradict what Paul has written previously: that the only way to be saved is by accepting Christ (Romans 10:9–10).

john piper had this to say,
Romans 11:30-32 is the summary of the main point of this chapter, namely, that God has designed and guided history—both its disobedience and its obedience—so that in the end it will most fully display the reliability of his promises and the magnificence of his mercy—to prevent human pride and produce white-hot worship. Verse 29: “The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” In other words, the gifts and callings by which he completes his plans in history are infallible. God designs and guides history irrevocably.”

the fact that romans 9 confirms everything john calvin said makes you mad. It shouldnt.

John Piper is a Calvinist so who cares what he says
 

brightfame52

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The WORLD in John 3:16 is the entire human race, out of which, those who do believe on Jesus Christ, will not perish but have eternal life

IF, the WORLD is only the ELECT, then only those of the ELECT who do believe on Jesus Christ, will not perish but have eternal life, but the others will be damned.
Oh, Sorry but the world in Jn 3:16 is the Elect of all nations.
 

Mjh29

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either WORLD in John 3:16, is UNIVERSAL, or only for the ELECT. That is it. What say ye?
This only refers to the people whose hearts God chooses to open. All KINDS of people; ALL walks of life will make up the kingdom of God
 

Mjh29

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What Parkhurst is saying, is that the word WORLD used in John 3:16, is UNIVERSAL, and includes both those who will become "believers", and those who will not. The entire human race.

So unbelievers will as well be in heaven?
 

David H.

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John 3:16-18 destroys TULI of TULIP!
Calvinists believe that God really means to accomplish, through the atonement, the conversion of a definite (limited) group of people, not just hold out the opportunity to all people to believe.

What if you are both right and both wrong? Salvation is for all, whomsoever will, thy become the faithful. sainthood is for the elect, chosen by God, and therefore limited.... many are called, few are chosen. We are all on the path to sainthood, some make their calling and election sure, others do not but remain counted among the faithful.... some run the race and win the prize, others do not. Until the distinction is once again restored to Protestantism between the faithful and the saints, She will continue to be divided endlessly along these lines.