Jesus Died for Judas

[Lambano]

Iscariot in this case to me would be like a slang, like Peter or Cephus meant a descriptive of something.

Another theory is that "Judas Iscariot" is slang for "Judas the Sicarius". The Sicarii were a subgroup of the revolutionary Zealots who specialized in assassinations. Proponents of this theory note that Judas is always paired with Simon the Zealot in the lists of the 12 disciples. Jesus apparently hung out with some pretty dodgy characters.

 

[Illuminator]

WE don't "sacrifice" the Lamb.

The sacrifice offered at eag mass is is a re-presentation of the SAME sacrifice offered at Calvcary.
It is an ETERNAL sacrificem per Rev. 13:8.

So, wuther you're really ignorant - or really dishonest.
Take your pick . . .

Let's pick the former, and give poor Daniel the benefit of the doubt.

Luke 22:44 – after the Eucharist, Jesus sweats blood in the garden of Gethsemane. This shows that His sacrifice began in the Upper Room and connects the Passion to the seder meal where the lamb must not only be sacrificed, but consumed.

Matt. 27:34; Mark 15:23 – Jesus, in his Passion, refuses to even drink an opiate. The writers point this out to emphasize that the final cup will be drunk on the cross, after the Paschal Lamb’s sacrifice is completed. (finished, consummated)

John 19:23 – this verse describes the “chiton” garment Jesus wore when He offered Himself on the cross. These were worn by the Old Testament priests to offer sacrifices. See Exodus 28:4; Lev. 16:4.

John 19:29; cf. Matt. 27:48; Mark 15:36; – Jesus is provided wine (the Fourth Cup) on a hyssop branch which was used to sprinkle the lambs’ blood in Exodus 12:22. This ties Jesus’ sacrifice to the Passover lambs which had to be consumed in the seder meal which was ceremonially completed by drinking the Cup of Consummation. Then in John 19:30, Jesus says, “It is consummated.” The sacrifice began in the upper room and was completed on the cross. God’s love for humanity is made manifest.

Matt. 27:45; Mark 15:33; John 19:14 – the Gospel writers confirm Jesus’ death at the sixth hour, just when the Passover lambs were sacrificed. Again, this ties Jesus’ death to the death of the Passover lambs. Like the Old Covenant, in the New Covenant, the Passover Lamb must be eaten.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Rather odd BB . How come when GOD drew me , HE drew me to faith in CHRIST and away from the love of sin .
GOD sent JESUS to bless us by turning us from our inquities
BB , do me and yourself a favor . WHEN i say me i dont mean to imply i am saved by what you do
but its out of great love for your soul i say it and it would bring me peace for you if you would heed it
SO again , DO ME and yourself a favor . FLEE the stephen furticks and the false hyper grace .
WHO have turned the grace o GOD into a license to do evil and yet FEEL saved .
How come todays leaders dont sound anything like paul did , or Christ did , peter did or james did , or jude did
when it comes to sin . How come todays leaders are not lighting fast to correct sin
and rather are big on a love that is not compatible to GOD , to CHRIST .
Judas is not in heaven . Too many people are falling for a love that is not compatible to the very love of GOD .
Too many folks are ready to hug satan into heaven under a false love .
DENY JESUS and HE WILL DENY YOU . AND PS , if we deny HIS SAYINGS WE DONE DENIED HIM .
SO let me leave you with this solid proof . Written by paul himself .
HE who wont provide for his own and specially for those of his own household HAS DENIED THE FAITH . THE FAITH BB . THE FAITH
and is worse than even an infidel . AN infidel is one who aint even following or truly believes IN JESUS .
BB .
I want you to flee these hyper grace teachers . THEY are not teaching grace , they are teaching something else all together .

I have never heard of Steven Furtick

I hate sin just like you do now that I have received a NewHeart.....I am not aware of any Bible Teacher that promotes sin and I doubt that you do either—- it’s a straw man for those that don’t trust Grace....they secretly trust their works, but are too sly to come out and admit it....you are secretly proud of your performance and THAT Is what you are truly trusting in to get Saved....you think that you are “ above sin” since you got Saved , even though James had to admit that we ALL STUMBLE at times.....not you though, “Mr.Holy Spirit Jr.” Right?

Here’s the true story.......I SEIZE God's way of Salvation —- “GRACE”—- and NOT because I WANT to sin and get a “ get out of hell free” card....I don’t try to take advantage of Grace and try to turn it into a “ License to Sin”.....When I sin, guess who gets “ Chastised?” If you answered “ BB”, go to the head Of The class !......God does not “ play games” when he takes His errant children to His “ Wood Shed”..... I suppose a sinless man like yourself has never been there.....that’s scary.....if you have never been Chastised for your Sins, God is not your Father.....and as you have informed us, God just “ took away” all of your sinful desires......Hogwash!

Yes.... I cling to the Grace that I Is available for me when I sin....I Boldly go to the Throne Of Grace ( as ordered! ) and even though He hates my sin, I bet God just Loves it when we show our Confidence in the Blood That “ Cleanses us from ALL Sin”and believe in His remedy .....the more Faith you have in the Blood, the Bolder you approach that Throne Of Grace.....God likes it.....

I will be Chastised here on Earth for my sins—— what kind of Fool desires THAT? Chastised yes, but damned for them ? Never! I actually believe in the Gospel that proclaims that Christ died for my sins and rose from the grave.......Believing that Gospel is what Saves me.....there is NO SIN that I can commit that will damn me....The Promised Chastisement is proof that nobody is going to sin and “ get away with it”—— something that just terrorizes the self- righteous hypocrite ! So get that knot out of your panties—- you can’t do wrong and get by....

I go with Super Hyper Grace not because I “WANT” to sin.....it's more like this—- I got the Brains and the Humility to know that despite my best efforts NOT to Sin —— I am “GOING” to sin as long as I am in this Flesh Body....I NEED the Grace Of God In my life and I need Tons Of it......so do you, you just don’t have the self- insight to realize it....I believe the Bible says, “ know thyself” .....you and your type do not...

You can lose “ your love of sin ‘ , but you are still a Sinner That needs Grace.....ever have an impure thought? Or are you above that too? I suspect not.....you are still a Sinner .....better grab hold of some of that “ Hyper Grace “ that you desperately need.... you are no better than anybody else—- you have secret thoughts that would shame Hell.....just like everybody else....
Who do you think you are fooling? It ain’t God!
.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The first book of the bible I ever read was Revelation. Prophecy has always been my focus.

LOL....Nothing like starting with the most difficult to understand book of the whole Bible.

I needed strong teeth to tackle Revelation....had to drink and digest the milk first....

There is so much happening in the world right now, what a time to be alive.

It is the most unique time in human history.....the culmination of all that the Bible describes as the way back to God through Jesus Christ....most however have been taught about a dreadful imposter who is not Jesus at all...he is a thinly disguised devil that they have put in God's place. A cruel fiend who tortures people forever in eternal flames with no way out.

That is not the God Jesus taught us to love as he did.

Satan is as much a co-writer as God is the Author. It's hard to explain.

I see satan more as the subject of the book rather than its co-author. There are many pages written about him but not by him.
He is, after all the whole reason why the world is in this mess.

The Bible contains both wheat and tares and God puts the tares in the bible so we can learn what to watch out for.

Its a good contrast especially when you know what the tares were that Jesus used in his illustration. It was thought to be a poisonous plant called "bearded darnel" and it was the blight of farmers in the Middle east in Bible times. It was called "wheat's evil twin" and it looks exactly like wheat in the early growing stages. Its not until the plant has grown some that the difference begins to manifest, but by then the roots of both plants are intertwined and it is almost impossible to uproot the weeds without taking the wheat with them.

Some would oversow their neighbor's crops to ruin it with this weed, as an act of spite.
By the time of the harvest, the grain heads present in a completely different way to the wheat. That's why Jesus said to "let them grow together until the harvest" when the reapers will uproot the whole crop....getting rid of the clearly identifiable weeds first, and destroying them, and then gathering the wheat into the storehouse.

I have always questioned, how could Israel who had God with them all throughout history keep getting seduced into following after other gods?
What was the attraction? How were they pulled away?

When Israel was first released from slavery in Egypt, their minds had been somewhat corrupted by hundreds of years among the pagan Egyptians.
So what was the first thing they did when Moses was taking so long in the mountain after their release? They reverted back to an idol worshipping mentality (as was common in Egypt) and made a golden calf as a god that they could see. They called this idol "Yahweh" but that did not excuse them. All the nations practiced different forms of idolatry, and bad habits are easily adopted.
Time and again despite God's punishments, his people would revert back to their wicked ways.
It was always due to bad leadership.

And by studying how they were influenced I could see the same things working in the world around me.
I see spiritual wickedness and it's control right now over the world. I'm sure many can sense it. But I can see the pull and tug.

Yes, exactly.....Revelation 18:4-5 is God's command to 'get out of Babylon the Great'. So who or what is "Babylon the Great"?
There are many theories, but original Babylon features strongly when you consider that another way to describe this harlot is...."the greater Babylon".
What was there about original Babylon that made this new "city" even more reprehensible? How was this a 'greater Babylon'?

Original Babylon was one of the cities constructed by the first rebel after the flood. Nimrod wanted to make a name for himself and he became the first 'political' leader among men. He built cities, and used his influence to introduce false religious ideas, instead of spreading out in the earth as God had commanded. A huge feature of the city of Babel was its tower, being constructed "with its top in the heavens". (Legend has it that this was in case God ever flooded the world again, that they would remain high and dry.) But this is where God confused their language and brought the project to a complete halt, since no one understood his neighbor. Slowly those who belonged to the same language groups departed to start a new life in another place, taking with them many false religious beliefs, a new language, and they started up new religions and cultures. So we see the same basic thread of beliefs permeating all of these cultures and religions under different names, worshipping different gods....and also a flood legend in almost all of them.

Today, "Babylon the Great" includes any religion that teaches doctrines that found it’s roots in original 'Babylon'....doctrines like....multiplicities of gods, (especially trinities) immortality of the human soul, and hellfire for the wicked, contrasted with heavenly bliss for the 'good' people.....and mother goddess worship.
BtG is pictured as a whore, but her immoral relationships are all spiritual.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I looked into the depths of hell and it's frightful. The absolute abomination of the darkest souls.
I swear they aren't human. I tell my dad all the time, demons are running the world.

We often hear the word "INHUMAN" attached to the heinous acts that always seem to accompany war...and even in the crimes of violence perpetrated at other times. This word means "NOT HUMAN", so it is plain for all to see that the demons are behind all these acts because that is what they have to do to please their leader. They have to turn mankind into an image of themselves.

Take for example the Hebrews in Egypt being beaten and tormented as slaves. We read the story, but I can see the images. I can feel the pain and suffering. I can put myself in their shoes. I know what empathy is.

I’m sure God does too.....and when the time was right, he rescued them at the hand of his prophet Moses who was born in Egypt to Hebrew parents, and through God's intervention, was raised as the son of Pharaoh's daughter. He was raised with wealth and privilege and no doubt had a fine education, but he never forgot who he was. At the age of forty Moses struck down an Egyptian slave driver who was mistreating his Hebrew brother...and killed him. On being found out, Moses had to flee Egypt or face the consequences. He became a sheep herder in Haran. At the age of 75, God summoned him in the burning bush to go down to Egypt and liberate his people.

So the harsh slavery was endured for a very long time while God was observing them and then providing them with what can only be described as a miraculous and spectacular rescue...despite all that they saw at the hand of their God, they were quick to abandon his worship for the serving of other gods. No wonder only two of the older generation made it into the Promised Land.

The unseen enemy.
This is that entity that entered Judas. It messed with his mind. It manipulates nations. This war right now with Russia and Ukraine, the devil has his hands all over it.
And yet God is in control. He already forewarned us. We should be watching and noticing the enemies moves and countering them with faith and prayer at every turn. We are in a critical time. Many souls will be lost, and many also will be found.

This is the time for decisions....which will ultimately lead to life or death.
Daniel foretold that the "King of the North" and the "King of the South" would be pushing and shoving one another and this is what we see as the prelude to the great tribulation...and finally Armageddon....

His house is the church, it is christians, it is us. And the enemy is trying to break up the house, divided we fall.

Since the church is not the "weeds", but only the "wheat", we need to discern which is which. A harsh rejection is awaiting those who get this wrong. (Matthew 7:21-23) If "few" are on the road to life, then the "many” are traveling the wrong road. (Matthew 7:13-14)

He turns us against each other, at a time when we need to be united and strong.

Only the "weeds" turn against each other.....the “wheat” are united in love and peace despite the turmoil going on around them.

ah I'm rambling again...
sometimes I get carried away.. literally.
sorry

No apologies necessary.....you are a thinker....and God's loves the thinkers, because they are open to his truth, rather than being close minded and out of reach.

 

[Ziggy]

But this is where God confused their language and brought the project to a complete halt, since no one understood his neighbor.

Maybe this explains the mass migrations going on all over the world?
Everyone is being shifted to different locations.

Original Babylon was one of the cities constructed by the first rebel after the flood.

I did a study on Abram some time ago. Abram came from the land of Ur. Ur is located in Iraq. Iraq is where Babylon is located.
But if you follow the geography to find the location of Eden, it's in the same area.
When God told Abraham to leave his country and he would lead his seed to the promised land, This is the same as, come out of her my people and be not partakers of her sins.
Which brings me back to Adam and Eve in the garden. It had become a land of idolatry.
This serpent worship in this location has become the dragon worship which covers the whole earth.
Consumerism, greed, hatefulness, that whole list things not to be.
And darkness covered the face of the deep. And God said, Let there be light. And God seperated the light from the darkness (the wheat from the tares) .
From the very beginning God has given us the Gospel.

Thank You
Hugs

 

[Daniel L.]

blood

Lamb’s sacrifice

lambs’ blood

Jesus’ sacrifice

sacrifice

lambs were sacrificed

Lamb must be eaten

No blood offering, of beast or bird, or man, can take away sin, for how can the conscience be purged from sin by the shedding of innocent blood? Nay, it will increase the condemnation.
The priests indeed receive such offering as reconciliation of the worshippers for the trespasses against the law of Moses, but for sins agains the Law of God there can be no remission, save by repentance and amendment.

1 Samuel 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

-Blood Sacrifice is leaven from the pharisees:

Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Ezekiel 5:6 And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.

-Corruption of the covenant of Levi:

Malachi 2:8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

-Blood Sacrifice is not what our Father in Heaven wants:

Psalms 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

-Blood Sacrifice was not commanded by our Father:

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

-Blood sacrifice is "of fools" and evil:

Ecclesiastes 5:1 Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.

-Blood sacrifice is an abomination:

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

 

[amigo de christo]

I have never heard of Steven Furtick

I hate sin just like you do now that I have received a NewHeart.....I am not aware of any Bible Teacher that promotes sin and I doubt that you do either—- it’s a straw man for those that don’t trust Grace....they secretly trust their works, but are too sly to come out and admit it....you are secretly proud of your performance and THAT Is what you are truly trusting in to get Saved....you think that you are “ above sin” since you got Saved , even though James had to admit that we ALL STUMBLE at times.....not you though, “Mr.Holy Spirit Jr.” Right?

Here’s the true story.......I SEIZE God's way of Salvation —- “GRACE”—- and NOT because I WANT to sin and get a “ get out of hell free” card....I don’t try to take advantage of Grace and try to turn it into a “ License to Sin”.....When I sin, guess who gets “ Chastised?” If you answered “ BB”, go to the head Of The class !......God does not “ play games” when he takes His errant children to His “ Wood Shed”..... I suppose a sinless man like yourself has never been there.....that’s scary.....if you have never been Chastised for your Sins, God is not your Father.....and as you have informed us, God just “ took away” all of your sinful desires......Hogwash!

Yes.... I cling to the Grace that I Is available for me when I sin....I Boldly go to the Throne Of Grace ( as ordered! ) and even though He hates my sin, I bet God just Loves it when we show our Confidence in the Blood That “ Cleanses us from ALL Sin”and believe in His remedy .....the more Faith you have in the Blood, the Bolder you approach that Throne Of Grace.....God likes it.....

I will be Chastised here on Earth for my sins—— what kind of Fool desires THAT? Chastised yes, but damned for them ? Never! I actually believe in the Gospel that proclaims that Christ died for my sins and rose from the grave.......Believing that Gospel is what Saves me.....there is NO SIN that I can commit that will damn me....The Promised Chastisement is proof that nobody is going to sin and “ get away with it”—— something that just terrorizes the self- righteous hypocrite ! So get that knot out of your panties—- you can’t do wrong and get by....

I go with Super Hyper Grace not because I “WANT” to sin.....it's more like this—- I got the Brains and the Humility to know that despite my best efforts NOT to Sin —— I am “GOING” to sin as long as I am in this Flesh Body....I NEED the Grace Of God In my life and I need Tons Of it......so do you, you just don’t have the self- insight to realize it....I believe the Bible says, “ know thyself” .....you and your type do not...

You can lose “ your love of sin ‘ , but you are still a Sinner That needs Grace.....ever have an impure thought? Or are you above that too? I suspect not.....you are still a Sinner .....better grab hold of some of that “ Hyper Grace “ that you desperately need.... you are no better than anybody else—- you have secret thoughts that would shame Hell.....just like everybody else....
Who do you think you are fooling? It ain’t God!
.

BB , you have to try and watch a bit closer to what i post my friend .
When did i ever say God has not chastened me for error . If i have been in error , GOD has chastened me
and brought me to repentance from said error . God even allowed JOB to be chastened most severe too .
There is a reason GOD chastens . Its for our own good my friend , that we sin not and grow in faith .
The thing is BB , my concern for you is that you do not seem to have a serious approach towards sin and error .
And why do you come after folks who simply remind to be hearers and doers of the word .
You do realize that a hearer only is and has decieved themselves .
I used to be a hearer only , loved some sin , and yet could still , at times tell others that They had to believe in Christ .
THERE is proof that can be seen in true believers , that false believers do not have .
The FRUIT and the Fruits of the Spirit . YES , you will know them by their fruits .
The difference is very clear .
Example . A lamb hates the sin of his own flesh . He hates it . But a mouth only
will justify his love for his error .
Example . WHEN you go into a church and you see unrepentant gays and rainbow flags
YOU can rest assured these do not follow Christ at all .
OR when you go into a church and they preach the love of money and heap and steap those riches
Again rest assured these do not know CHRIST , though they cliam too .
A lamb does not love false and evil things .
A true lamb has been born again . Example .
Lets say a woman had ten abortions , then later comes to Christ . SHE IS FORGIVEN
and , AND YOU WILL SEE a new heart . SHE will not even support abortion .
Same with a gay person . Lets say they lived that lifestyle for years and did many abominations .
THEN come to Christ . FORGIVEN THEY ARE . BUT again you see a new heart .
THEY WILL NO LONGER support that sin . They will say its sin and will not support it .
THIS IS KNOWN AS A TRUE CONVERSION .
SO when you see those who justify sin and love it , REST ASSURED THESE ARE NOT LAMBS at all .
AND that aint being judgmental , TIS SPEAKING THE TRUTH .
AND concerning leaders . THEY should have long been mature before they set foot in a pulpit .
LEADERS would be grave , sincere , teaching always bible doctrine and looking out for their flocks .
AND they sure as heck would not be joining hands with a harlot church for unity and world peace .
WE got problems big time in many churches . AND it will get only worse .
Lambs look out for lambs . We warn one in error to repent . we dont just sit and let one of the brethren ERR
and say , OH GOD UNDERSTANDS .
NO we are to be as those apostels were . CORRECT IT and DO SO fast . FOR the sake
that leaven will not fill the place , for the sake that the one in error will sorrow to repentance .
LAMBS , TRUE ONES , LOOK OUT for the lambs . WE dont down play the dangers of sin .
WE point to JESUS and we dont pick and choose His teachings . WE Teach , we love and we embrace ALL things HE taught .
Keep that in mind the next time you see some preacher saying things like , OH that no longer applies to us .
THEY LIE . WE should have loved every word JESUS taught and later the apostels would . KEEP this in mind BB .
Cause i see problems ALL OVER the place and many wont be making it .
Many are not truly of Christ . Thus the only thing we can do , IS POINT to CHRIST , correct any that does err
pray for the peoples and continue in Christ , BY the SPIRIT , doing all things HE did teach and later the aposetls did .
LOVE IT ALL BB . Never pick to omit any of it . LOVE IT ALL . IT CAME OF CHRIST , IT CAME OF GOD
and thus a lamb who has the SPIRIT would embrace it and do it .

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Are you serious? That is a fine piece of scriptural tap dancing if ever I saw it.....but again you have provided no direct statement as to God or Christ admitting that there is a three in one “godhead” who all claim to be “God Yahweh”.

We have direct statements to the contrary....the apostles were in no doubt about who their “God” was, and acknowledged Jesus as their “Lord”. A ”Lord” is not necessarily a god, but a person in authority to be shown respect. The Bible has many addressed by this title.

1 Corinthians 8:5-6....
“For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”

There is no ambiguity in that clear statement....so when you can provide a direct statement, without the scriptural gymnastics and the ambiguous verses into which you read your doctrine, you can say with certainty that your trinity exists.....but the Jews never believed that their God was three....(Deuteronomy 6:4) Since Jesus was Jewish, he would never have committed blasphemy by claiming to be God incarnate. Being “the son of God” does not make him deity. He has divine origins, but never did he claim to be equal to the one who “sent” him. The Holy Spirit is never once called “Yahweh” either. You have nothing but inference.

Jesus did not come to create a new religion, but to institute a new covenant with the same God, whom he identified as “the only true God” without including himself. (John 17:3) Those who saw through the corruption of the Pharisees would be introduced to this God as Christ represented him to them.....the same will be true of these “last days”...only those who see through the errors of Christendom’s teachings will enter the Kingdom of God...either as rulers and priests with Christ in heaven, (Revelation 20:6) or as their grateful subjects on earth. (Revelation 21:2-4) “Few” are on the road to life for a reason. (Matthew 7:13-14) The “wheat” and the “weeds” have nothing in common when the “reapers” arrive to clear “the field”. They have been separated completely.

There is no point in arguing since we will all find out the painful answer to that question at the end when Christ comes as judge....he will let us know if we have swallowed satanic lies or been told the truth....I can confidently let him do that. (Matthew 7:21-23) If you can too, then why is there a need to press the point? (John 6:65)

It is very clear from the change in the Greek, where Jesus makes Himself the Speaker in Malachi 3:1, as Yahweh, as well as the Messiah. Now you need to show why Jesus did this, if you think what I have shown to be wrong. You make the claim that I am wrong, so you need to explain the Greek in Matthew 11:10, and the other Gospels.

You quote 1 Corinthians 8:6, but don't actually know what it means. Let's use your own argument, that there is One God, Who is the Father. And One Lord, Who is Jesus Christ. In Isaiah 43:11 it says, "“I, even I, am Yahweh (the LORD), And there is no Savior besides Me". This can only mean that Jesus Christ is meant by YAHWEH as He is the ONE LORD! Further it is Jesus Christ, and not the Father, Who is the Saviour, which this verse in Isaiah says! It is clear that in Isaiah 43:11, that the Speaker is Jesus Christ. The same is in Isaiah 45:5, "“I am Yahweh (the LORD), and there is no other; Besides Me there is no god. I will gird you, though you have not known Me". Since it is clear from 1 Corinthians 8:6, that there is only ONE LORD, Who is Jesus Christ, then this verse as well is Jesus Christ Speaking! It does not say anywhere, that the Father is the ONE LORD!

 

[Aunty Jane]

It is very clear from the change in the Greek, where Jesus makes Himself the Speaker in Malachi 3:1, as Yahweh, as well as the Messiah. Now you need to show why Jesus did this, if you think what I have shown to be wrong. You make the claim that I am wrong, so you need to explain the Greek in Matthew 11:10, and the other Gospels.

You quote 1 Corinthians 8:6, but don't actually know what it means. Let's use your own argument, that there is One God, Who is the Father. And One Lord, Who is Jesus Christ. In Isaiah 43:11 it says, "“I, even I, am Yahweh (the LORD), And there is no Savior besides Me". This can only mean that Jesus Christ is meant by YAHWEH as He is the ONE LORD! Further it is Jesus Christ, and not the Father, Who is the Saviour, which this verse in Isaiah says! It is clear that in Isaiah 43:11, that the Speaker is Jesus Christ. The same is in Isaiah 45:5, "“I am Yahweh (the LORD), and there is no other; Besides Me there is no god. I will gird you, though you have not known Me". Since it is clear from 1 Corinthians 8:6, that there is only ONE LORD, Who is Jesus Christ, then this verse as well is Jesus Christ Speaking! It does not say anywhere, that the Father is the ONE LORD!

I cannot for the life of me understand this spiritual blindness.....you read into scripture what is not stated or even implied. Your theology demands biblical gymnastics to even hint at what you claim.

Descriptive words that apply to others, which have been shown to you already, are interpreted as if they apply only to one. Words that describe an activity or official capacity can apply to many.
A “savior” e.g. is a rescuer....the one who sends a savior is also a savior. (Judges 3:9)

If Christ was “sent” by his God and Father as the one who provided the redemption price, then the salvation of mankind rested upon his shoulders......if Christ had not been “sent, then no savior would have come. God and his means to carry out salvation, are both “saviors”.

Here you are stressing “ONE LORD” as if the title “Lord” applies only to Yahweh....it is not a name but merely a title, like “Sir” or “Master”.....many are addressed as “Lord” in the scriptures....it is a title of respect.

The title “god” (“theos” in Greek) does not refer only to Yahweh, as Jesus showed in John 10:33-36 where he said that his Father called human judges in Israel “gods” because they were judging by divine authority.
At 2 Corinthians 4:4 satan is called a god.
Moses was said to be “god” to Pharaoh because he displayed God’s power.

You are grasping at straws because you cannot produce a single direct statement that the God of the Bible is even once identified as a trinity. The Jews had no trinity and Jesus was Jewish....even saying that he was God’s son was seen as blasphemy (a capital offence)....imagine what they would have said if he claimed to be God incarnate...! They would have had legal grounds under the Law to execute him, yet Christ had to die as an innocent man.

You are free to worship whatever god you choose, but unless you can find me a clear statement in the Bible from Christ or his Father that they are equally “God” with the Holy Spirit, then I am going to believe what is written in the Bible without the tap dancing and inference.

The Bible clearly says that the Father is “one Yahweh” (Deuteronomy 6:4) and that the son is his firstborn, “through” whom he created all things, (Colossians 1:15-17)......and that the Holy Spirit is God’s power directed to wherever or to whomever it is needed to accomplish God’s purpose.
John the Baptist said that Jesus would baptize with holy spirit, even as John had been baptizing with water. Logically then, in the same way that water is not a person, holy spirit is not a person either.
The disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost....how do 120 individuals become “filled” with a person?

Sorry, but I see no support whatsoever in the Bible for God to be anything other than what he stated.
Nowhere is God said to be three separate persons who can be in different places at the same time and talk to one another....the idea is not Biblical IMO....the concept comes from outside of scripture.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

No blood offering, of beast or bird, or man, can take away sin, for how can the conscience be purged from sin by the shedding of innocent blood? Nay, it will increase the condemnation.
The priests indeed receive such offering as reconciliation of the worshippers for the trespasses against the law of Moses, but for sins agains the Law of God there can be no remission, save by repentance and amendment.

1 Samuel 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

-Blood Sacrifice is leaven from the pharisees:

Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Ezekiel 5:6 And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.

-Corruption of the covenant of Levi:

Malachi 2:8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

-Blood Sacrifice is not what our Father in Heaven wants:

Psalms 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

-Blood Sacrifice was not commanded by our Father:

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

-Blood sacrifice is "of fools" and evil:

Ecclesiastes 5:1 Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.

-Blood sacrifice is an abomination:

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

Hebrews 9:22.......” Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin”

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

I cannot for the life of me understand this spiritual blindness.....you read into scripture what is not stated or even implied. Your theology demands biblical gymnastics to even hint at what you claim.

Descriptive words that apply to others, which have been shown to you already, are interpreted as if they apply only to one. Words that describe an activity or official capacity can apply to many.
A “savior” e.g. is a rescuer....the one who sends a savior is also a savior. (Judges 3:9)

If Christ was “sent” by his God and Father as the one who provided the redemption price, then the salvation of mankind rested upon his shoulders......if Christ had not been “sent, then no savior would have come. God and his means to carry out salvation, are both “saviors”.

Here you are stressing “ONE LORD” as if the title “Lord” applies only to Yahweh....it is not a name but merely a title, like “Sir” or “Master”.....many are addressed as “Lord” in the scriptures....it is a title of respect.

The title “god” (“theos” in Greek) does not refer only to Yahweh, as Jesus showed in John 10:33-36 where he said that his Father called human judges in Israel “gods” because they were judging by divine authority.
At 2 Corinthians 4:4 satan is called a god.
Moses was said to be “god” to Pharaoh because he displayed God’s power.

You are grasping at straws because you cannot produce a single direct statement that the God of the Bible is even once identified as a trinity. The Jews had no trinity and Jesus was Jewish....even saying that he was God’s son was seen as blasphemy (a capital offence)....imagine what they would have said if he claimed to be God incarnate...! They would have had legal grounds under the Law to execute him, yet Christ had to die as an innocent man.

You are free to worship whatever god you choose, but unless you can find me a clear statement in the Bible from Christ or his Father that they are equally “God” with the Holy Spirit, then I am going to believe what is written in the Bible without the tap dancing and inference.

The Bible clearly says that the Father is “one Yahweh” (Deuteronomy 6:4) and that the son is his firstborn, “through” whom he created all things, (Colossians 1:15-17)......and that the Holy Spirit is God’s power directed to wherever or to whomever it is needed to accomplish God’s purpose.
John the Baptist said that Jesus would baptize with holy spirit, even as John had been baptizing with water. Logically then, in the same way that water is not a person, holy spirit is not a person either.
The disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost....how do 120 individuals become “filled” with a person?

Sorry, but I see no support whatsoever in the Bible for God to be anything other than what he stated.
Nowhere is God said to be three separate persons who can be in different places at the same time and talk to one another....the idea is not Biblical IMO....the concept comes from outside of scripture.

In 1 Corinthians 10:9, we read Paul warn, "Nor are we to put the Christ (τὸν Χριστόν) to the test, as some of them did, and were killed by the snakes"

There is no doubt that Paul is here referring to Numbers 21:5-6, "The people spoke against God, and against Moses, "Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no bread, and there is no water; and our soul loathes this light bread." Yahweh sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and many people of Israel died"

It is very clear to us who do not have a theological bias, that Jesus Christ is both ELOHIM and YAHWEH, as we can see from the passage in Numbers, Who Paul says is JESUS CHRIST.

Now show that this is not the case

 

[Daniel L.]

Hebrews 9:22.......” Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin”

Deuteronomy 19:15 A single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin which he has committed; on the evidence of two or three witnesses a matter shall be confirmed.

Your single witness confirms nothing, on the other hand all the witnesses I presented are confirmed indeed.

 

[Ziggy]

Odd thought..

Shedding of.. skin.
Fiery serpents.. what did Jesus call them?
Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

sorry just passing through..

Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

I see satan more as the subject of the book rather than its co-author. There are many pages written about him but not by him.
He is, after all the whole reason why the world is in this mess.

This is one of those subjects that's probably left to ponder with oneself.
I really like putting my thoughts out there... but I know this isn't the place or time to do that.
I'll say this.
God Is.
And if God didn't want Satan in the world then poof, he would be gone.
But there is a reason and a purpose for that entity.
Kind of like the dark side of the moon.

Question...
If there is no opposition to being good, then how can one be tested and tried?
Man has become as one of us, to know good and evil.
Who is us?

When David was tempted to number the people who tempted him?

2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Now you have to pick a side and watch the division of who says this one and who says that one.
So you have to ask yourself, who put that in there?
Are they both wrong? or are they both right?

Why did God give men bad laws?
Eze 20:11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.

Eze 20:23 I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries;
Eze 20:24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.
Eze 20:25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
Eze 20:26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD.

Now, which statutes and which judgments are the good ones and which ones are the bad ones?
But God gave them all, nevertheless.

alright, I'm going to open my mouth, just because...

I believe men have wicked thoughts and evil intentions and blame it on the snake.
Not even recognizing that they themselves are vipers and poisonous asps.
Man needed a scapegoat from the very beginning... the devil made me do it.
And as we see in the book of Job, the devil aint doin nuthin without the Lord's agreement.

You can't have light without darkness. You can't have good without evil. You can't have up without down. You can't have right without wrong.
That's the way God made it.
We walk on dangerous ground everytime we try to blame the "snake" for our own bad behavior.

Why did Moses lift up a "snake" on the pole?
Why does Jesus refer to himelf as the "snake" lifted up on the pole?
Is Jesus the "snake" ?
God forbid. But man needs someone to blame and all our sin fell on him.

When Jesus was crucified and raised from the dead, he took that snake skin we put on him and shed it in the fire.

Wednesday morning, still working on coffee..
Heading to the Barrista for some lunch.
Hugs

 

[Aunty Jane]

if God didn't want Satan in the world then poof, he would be gone.
But there is a reason and a purpose for that entity.
Kind of like the dark side of the moon.

I see the purpose of satan manifesting after the fall, but not before.
God's first purpose is like he is...perfect. But free will can be abused.....I see satan abusing his free will and God then using him to teach us humans (as well as the angels) many things about the value of obedience to him and the proper use of free will.

Question...
If there is no opposition to being good, then how can one be tested and tried?
Man has become as one of us, to know good and evil.
Who is us?

This is a good point.....creation itself is complete with opposites in every way.....good and evil are simply that....a natural consequence of the balance in creation. But God did not keep a knowledge of any other 'opposites' from the first humans....only this one. There was no benefit in a knowledge of evil, so God took it off the table. Yet, because he gave his intelligent creation free will, he could not withhold it altogether so he placed it behind a penalty so serious, that only a fool would ignore it under the circumstances. The fruit of the forbidden tree was not vital to life and posed no hardship or deprivation for them at all.....it wasn't until the devil lied to the woman that she was deceived into believing that this knowledge was somehow beneficial.......so she broke God's law and enticed her husband to do the same. Both were motivated by selfishness, but in different ways. The devil tempts in ways that were his own undoing....he has no new tricks.

When David was tempted to number the people who tempted him?

2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Now you have to pick a side and watch the division of who says this one and who says that one.
So you have to ask yourself, who put that in there?
Are they both wrong? or are they both right?

Interesting when you read these scriptures over several times...and then it becomes a little clearer that God was angry with Israel, as he had been so many times before, so it appears as if, like he did with Job, He allowed satan to tempt David. After he realized what he had done, David repented but did not escape punishment....he was given three options and chose to fall into God's hands and not man's. Disobedience always cost the nation dearly...but they never learned.

Looking back at the history of God's worshippers, it is not hard to see that they were 'different' from the pagan nations in so many ways, and almost always in a minority among those nations. Their worship was different, their customs and laws were different, their clothing was different and their view of life and death was totally different as well. The fact that they moved their God to extreme anger at times just shows us that his patience has limits.

We have the words of the apostle Paul to Christians.....
"For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, 27 but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a burning indignation that is going to consume those in opposition. 28 Anyone who has disregarded the Law of Moses dies without compassion on the testimony of two or three. 29 How much greater punishment do you think a person will deserve who has trampled on the Son of God and who has regarded as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt? 30 For we know the One who said: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again: “Jehovah will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

David too discovered that "it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God".
This "time of the end" will be no different.


Like the copper serpent that Moses placed on a pole in the wilderness, the Son of God was impaled or fastened on a stake, thus appearing to many as an evildoer and a sinner, like a snake, being in the position of one cursed. (Deuteronomy 21:22-23; Galatians 3:13; 1 Perter 2:24)

In the wilderness a person who had been bitten by one of the poisonous serpents that God sent among the Israelites, evidently had to gaze at the copper serpent in faith. Similarly, to gain everlasting life through Christ, it is necessary to exercise faith in him.

Once again you ask good questions and think outside the box.....

 

[Aunty Jane]

Why did God give men bad laws?
Eze 20:11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.

Eze 20:23 I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries;
Eze 20:24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.
Eze 20:25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
Eze 20:26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD.

Now, which statutes and which judgments are the good ones and which ones are the bad ones?
But God gave them all, nevertheless.

The NLT has a good rendering of those verses....
"But I took a solemn oath against them in the wilderness. I swore I would scatter them among all the nations 24 because they did not obey my regulations. They scorned my decrees by violating my Sabbath days and longing for the idols of their ancestors. 25 I gave them over to worthless decrees and regulations that would not lead to life. 26 I let them pollute themselves with the very gifts I had given them, and I allowed them to give their firstborn children as offerings to their gods—so I might devastate them and remind them that I alone am the Lord."

How many times did Israel wander off into false worship and idolatry.....? Who could imagine that they could stoop to child sacrifice!?

alright, I'm going to open my mouth, just because...

I believe men have wicked thoughts and evil intentions and blame it on the snake.
Not even recognizing that they themselves are vipers and poisonous asps.
Man needed a scapegoat from the very beginning... the devil made me do it.
And as we see in the book of Job, the devil aint doin nuthin without the Lord's agreement.

We can see from Job's account that Job was just an ordinary man, but he was extraordinary in his faith. By allowing Job to go through the torturous trials that he did, proves that all of us can take the bad with the good. Satan wanted Job to curse God over his tragedies, but he refused, despite not knowing who was bringing these things upon him. Job represents all of us......will we curse God when things go wrong, or will we be steadfast as Job was....and we know who is behind those things....Job did not.

You can't have light without darkness. You can't have good without evil. You can't have up without down. You can't have right without wrong.
That's the way God made it.
We walk on dangerous ground everytime we try to blame the "snake" for our own bad behavior.

The snake is not to blame for any of our behaviors.....we are free moral agents....he cannot force us to do anything.....all he can do is set us up to fail.....we determine if he will win or not.

Why did Moses lift up a "snake" on the pole?
Why does Jesus refer to himelf as the "snake" lifted up on the pole?
Is Jesus the "snake" ?
God forbid. But man needs someone to blame and all our sin fell on him.

When Jesus was crucified and raised from the dead, he took that snake skin we put on him and shed it in the fire.

This is how I understand that incident.....
Jesus made clear the prophetic meaning of the wilderness event involving the copper serpent when he told Nicodemus: “Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man. And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so the Son of man must be lifted up, that everyone believing in him may have everlasting life.” (John 3:13-15)

 

[Aunty Jane]

In 1 Corinthians 10:9, we read Paul warn, "Nor are we to put the Christ (τὸν Χριστόν) to the test, as some of them did, and were killed by the snakes"

There is no doubt that Paul is here referring to Numbers 21:5-6, "The people spoke against God, and against Moses, "Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no bread, and there is no water; and our soul loathes this light bread." Yahweh sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and many people of Israel died"

It is very clear to us who do not have a theological bias, that Jesus Christ is both ELOHIM and YAHWEH, as we can see from the passage in Numbers, Who Paul says is JESUS CHRIST.

Now show that this is not the case

Do you ever look up scripture in other translations? What is the context here...?
Speaking of the faithless Israelites, Paul said....
"5 Nevertheless, with most of them God was not pleased; for their dead bodies were spread out in the wilderness.

6 Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they indeed craved them. 7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.” 8 Nor are we to commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day. 9 Nor are we to put the Lord to the test, as some of them did, and were killed by the snakes. 10 Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were killed by the destroyer. 11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come." (NASB)

Yes, Paul is speaking about the Israelites and how they caused God great sadness by their disobedient course....It is Yahweh who was put to the test by them......so why do you say "the Lord" here is Jesus? Do you imagine that there is just one person who has that designation? How many times do we have to explain this? "The LORD" to Jews was Yahweh.....Jesus not once....EVER claimed to be Yahweh....it would have been blasphemy.......again where are your direct quotes....where are the words of either God or his Christ that they are equals in a godhead with the holy spirit....c'mon...just one scripture where there is no ambiguity or scriptural gymnastics.

For something so important, (the very nature of God) you would think this trinity concept would be shouted from the rooftops from Genesis to Revelation...and yet there is not one direct quote from the persons concerned that they share a name or any equality with one another......quite the contrary.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Do you ever look up scripture in other translations? What is the context here...?
Speaking of the faithless Israelites, Paul said....
"5 Nevertheless, with most of them God was not pleased; for their dead bodies were spread out in the wilderness.

6 Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they indeed craved them. 7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.” 8 Nor are we to commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day. 9 Nor are we to put the Lord to the test, as some of them did, and were killed by the snakes. 10 Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were killed by the destroyer. 11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come." (NASB)

Yes, Paul is speaking about the Israelites and how they caused God great sadness by their disobedient course....It is Yahweh who was put to the test by them......so why do you say "the Lord" here is Jesus? Do you imagine that there is just one person who has that designation? How many times do we have to explain this? "The LORD" to Jews was Yahweh.....Jesus not once....EVER claimed to be Yahweh....it would have been blasphemy.......again where are your direct quotes....where are the words of either God or his Christ that they are equals in a godhead with the holy spirit....c'mon...just one scripture where there is no ambiguity or scriptural gymnastics.

For something so important, (the very nature of God) you would think this trinity concept would be shouted from the rooftops from Genesis to Revelation...and yet there is not one direct quote from the persons concerned that they share a name or any equality with one another......quite the contrary.

The textual evidence overwhelmingly supports the reading “Christos”, in 1 Corinthians 10:9. The oldest Greek manuscript for this Letter of Paul, from around A.D. 200, the the Chester Beatty Papyri, P46. Before this time, we have the evidence of the Greek Church fathers, Irenaeus, who was born about A.D. 140; and Clement of Alexandria (150-215). Then, Origen (185-254), who was a heretic and denied that Jesus Christ is God; Eusebius (260-340). From the Latin Church, we have, Ambrose, Bishp of Malan (339-97), Augustine, Bishop of Hippo (354-430), both who knew Greek and used the Greek New Testament. Then, we also the the Syriac father, Ephraem (306-373), who came from Edessa. Even the heretic Marcion, who was born as early as 85 AD, reads CHRIST in his Greek New Testament. We also have the Old Latin Version, dating to the 2nd century.

Of the English Versions that have the reading “Christos”, we have the, King James Version, New King James, Darby, Douay, New Living Translation, 21st Century King James, Webster, Contemporary English Version, New Century Version, Common English Bible, Young's Literal Translation, Holman Christian Standard Bible, Today’s New International Version, New International Version, and the English Standard Version.

Of the older English Versions, we have “Christos”, in Wycliffe (1385), Tyndale (1526), Coverdale (1535), Great (1539), Bishop’s (1568), Geneva (1587).

In their Emphatic Diaglott, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who published it in 1942, have in the Greek text, “Christos”, and the English under it, “the Anointed”. Though in the English translation in the right column, it has “the Lord”, which is theological, rather than what the Greek says. Interestingly, in the cross-reference, it has the passage from Numbers 21, thereby they affirm the Deity of Jesus Christ, as the Greek says, “Christos”. The Unitarian New Testament by Dr George Noyes, reads “Christ”.

The oldest textual evidence for the reading "τὸν κύριον", is the FOURTH CENTURY. And for "τὸν θεόν", the FIFTH!

There is NO DOUBT, that the textual evidence shows that Paul Originally wrote THE CHRIST.

You will not accept this, not because oof the EVIDENCE, but, as a Jehovah’s Witness, your THEOLOGY is the barrier!

 

[Aunty Jane]

The textual evidence overwhelmingly supports the reading “Christos”, in 1 Corinthians 10:9. The oldest Greek manuscript for this Letter of Paul, from around A.D. 200, the the Chester Beatty Papyri, P46. Before this time, we have the evidence of the Greek Church fathers, Irenaeus, who was born about A.D. 140; and Clement of Alexandria (150-215). Then, Origen (185-254), who was a heretic and denied that Jesus Christ is God; Eusebius (260-340). From the Latin Church, we have, Ambrose, Bishp of Malan (339-97), Augustine, Bishop of Hippo (354-430), both who knew Greek and used the Greek New Testament. Then, we also the the Syriac father, Ephraem (306-373), who came from Edessa. Even the heretic Marcion, who was born as early as 85 AD, reads CHRIST in his Greek New Testament. We also have the Old Latin Version, dating to the 2nd century.

Of the English Versions that have the reading “Christos”, we have the, King James Version, New King James, Darby, Douay, New Living Translation, 21st Century King James, Webster, Contemporary English Version, New Century Version, Common English Bible, Young's Literal Translation, Holman Christian Standard Bible, Today’s New International Version, New International Version, and the English Standard Version.

Of the older English Versions, we have “Christos”, in Wycliffe (1385), Tyndale (1526), Coverdale (1535), Great (1539), Bishop’s (1568), Geneva (1587).

In their Emphatic Diaglott, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who published it in 1942, have in the Greek text, “Christos”, and the English under it, “the Anointed”. Though in the English translation in the right column, it has “the Lord”, which is theological, rather than what the Greek says. Interestingly, in the cross-reference, it has the passage from Numbers 21, thereby they affirm the Deity of Jesus Christ, as the Greek says, “Christos”. The Unitarian New Testament by Dr George Noyes, reads “Christ”.

The oldest textual evidence for the reading "τὸν κύριον", is the FOURTH CENTURY. And for "τὸν θεόν", the FIFTH!

There is NO DOUBT, that the textual evidence shows that Paul Originally wrote THE CHRIST.

You will not accept this, not because oof the EVIDENCE, but, as a Jehovah’s Witness, your THEOLOGY is the barrier!

You know the old saying is....”a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still”.....

If this is your truth, then you have all the evidence given to you about its validity.....no one will ever convince you otherwise. But your attempts to justify them will never lead me to accept what you believe. So each of us is accepting responsibility for their own choices.....the question of who is right and who is wrong is left to Jesus, whom we both purport to know. Let it be. We will all know soon enough.