"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[Eternally Grateful]

Do you care what is taught today?
Or what the Apostles taught?

I care what the Bible teaches

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Some of them believed it EG.
What saved persons in the O.T. is the same thing that saves persons today...
FAITH.

Yep faith.

Not works.

Abraham believed God

He also commits some prety grave sins after he was saved by faith

Same with david.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Agreed.
Those who BELIEVE IN HIM will never die.
BELIEVE, present tense.

You can’t have ETERNAL LIFE unless it is eternal.

A person who comes to the point of believing, is given eternal life. And promised he will never die.

Either God meant it. Or God lied.
Now why would you want to make God a liar by saying a person can still possibly die and has conditional life?

Agreed.
But justification comes before sanctification - I think you know this and it's just a typo.
If we are justified and sanctified we are saved.

You are justified and positionally sanctified the moment of salvation

Conditional sanctification is lifelong.

By one offering he has perfected forever those who are BEING sanctified.

John wrote to show that Jesus is God.
I think John wrote some verses you may not like:
John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has eternal life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

Again, present tense.
If we BELIEVE in Jesus, we are saved...
If that belief stops,,,we are not saved.

If we believe we will also obey.

Re the CC.
Forget about the CC...I left that church 40 years ago.
Find out what the Apostolic Fathers taught.
Find out what those THEY taught believed.

Study some church history.
OSAS was NEVER a teaching in the early church....
it came upon the scene at the reformation.

And, yes, I do trust the written Word...
The Logos of God Father.

You may have left the CC, sadly you still believe in their lie

True faith causes obedience But no one will obey perfectly. We will nt do this until we get to heaven.

Sadly NOSAS was thought in the NT. Paul wrote most of his epistles trying to fight that false gospel. Satan however took it and strengthened it by mixing the lie with truth. Its how he has worked from the begining, and it still works.

People never learn from history.[/quote][/quote]

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The one who delivered Paul from his body of death is the one who did the same for all those who follow Him all the days of their life.
.

So we have to earn salvation.

I pray your father did not make you earn the right to be his child.

 

[BarneyFife]

Peter received his Salvation AFTER Jesus returned to Heaven.
And no Peter did not “lose” his Salvation.

Peter spent 3 years walking and talking with the Lord of Glory and never had a conversion experience? Absolutely impossible.

People don't "receive salvation" upon conversion. Nowhere in the Bible is this taught.

Matthew 24:13 KJV: But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Are there more than one type of salvations? How can I "receive salvation" at conversion and then be saved after I have endured to the end?

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

I don't care for the Greek.
I'm not a theologian and neither are you EG.

I trust the theologians that have correctly, and to the best of their ability with what is available to them,
translated those manuscripts that have come down through the ages...including some new stuff they found.

No need for the Greek...
BTW, I agree with what you've stated above..
but the exegesis is not 100% correct.

You're basically saying you don't care for the inspired text and that you'd rather place your trust in flawed translations that were given to us by uninspired and opinionated scholars who didn't even place the books in the order God inspired them to be in.

If you acknowledge the fact that translators have rendered the inspired text "to the best of their ability", then it's a tacit admission on your part that they shouldn't be completely trusted. The only text that should be completely trusted is the original Hebrew and Greek since they're the only 2 languages God inspired the scriptures to be written in. You need to be extremely careful about what you're saying. When everybody has to stand before Christ in judgement, they're not going to be judged by what translated bibles say. They're going to be judged by the Hebrew and Greek text that God inspired.

Yep. God has the last word

He also has the responsibility of keeping his family.

People do not lose faith in God unless the truly never met him.

you do not lose faith in someone unless they fail you

In his final epistle, Paul told Timothy that everybody in Asia Minor had abandoned what they were taught(2 Tim. 1:15). In Paul's farewell speech to the Ephesus ministers, he prophesied that at least some of them would become Satan's agents(Acts 20:29-30). These were truly converted Christians that knew God!

You are not "right dividing" the word as Paul instructed.

Again...Paul was speaking about Old Testament issues of the law, and speaking...preaching to the unsaved Romans.

In Rom. 1:5-8, Paul makes it absolutely clear that the letter's audience was Christians in Rome:

"Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ; To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world."

You're not taking your own advice when it comes to rightly dividing what the Bible says.

 

[BarneyFife]

I am not presuming anything, nor is a laundry list of all that Christ came for the topic of the thread. But you brought it up. Nonetheless, it all centers around atonement.

You asked what I believe Christ came for. Is that on-topic? I was just following your lead. :)

 

[Cooper]

So we have to earn salvation.

I pray your father did not make you earn the right to be his child.

My father gave me physical life, I did not earn it, for it was a free gift, and like my spiritual father, we remained close till the end of our days. Unfortunately, just as some families on earth break up, people can break with their heavenly Father also, and they do, but remember this, it is always OUR doing. Our heavenly Father, never leaves us or forsakes us, so we need to examine ourselves, even to the extent of whether we follow the one who gave us new life eternal, or whether we follow an imposter.
.

 

[BarneyFife]

When everybody has to stand before Christ in judgement, they're not going to be judged by what translated bibles say. They're going to be judged by the Hebrew and Greek text that God inspired.

Absolute Balderdash and Buffalo Bagels

 

[Renniks]

You don;t go from being bankrupt in spirit, realizing your guilt. realizing you are deserving of hell. because you have utterly failed to live up to Gods standard. and because of that must suffer death. to getting on your knees and asking God to have mercy on you. because you realize the ONLY way to salvation in through him.

to all of a sudden changing your mind and

There's lots of people who have made that transition. It's not easy to understand why, but I'm convinced that the devil has something to do with it. It's probably a series of little unbeliefs that eventually add up to realizing that they have lost faith completely.

 

[Renniks]

Are you saved?

I already answered that.

 

[Renniks]

Salvation is the SAME WAY....God offered His gift to all men...It is theirs to TAKE.

Exactly. And also Thiers to reject. Even if they were truly saved. The only other option is a world without Free will and that's not in scripture.

 

[Renniks]

But I suspect that you will think that Paul himself was saved, making his counsel not about what he said, but what he himself was. But one could only draw that conclusion if they were blind to whom he spoke...and also to the fact that he qualified himself not as being saved or unsaved, but as being both,

What ridiculous nonsense. No one could simply read Romans and get that from it.

 

[ScottA]

Until and if we fall away the same as the Israelites for example.

What have the dead to do with the living?

 

[ScottA]

You asked what I believe Christ came for. Is that on-topic? I was just following your lead. :)

You're playing games. I'm not. Even so, you never answered.

 

[ScottA]

What ridiculous nonsense. No one could simply read Romans and get that from it.

If all you read was Romans...you might be right. But Paul wrote much more than Romans.

Scripture against scripture, line upon line, here a little, there a little. Have you not read this?

 

[ScottA]

In Rom. 1:5-8, Paul makes it absolutely clear that the letter's audience was Christians in Rome:

"Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ; To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world."

You're not taking your own advice when it comes to rightly dividing what the Bible says.

Yeah, I guess they got the name of the book of Romans wrong. Silly me.

Either way, as the record states, they were only "called."

 

[Taken]

Jesus doesn't leave...
the person leaves Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we endure we shall reign with Him
If we deny Him, He also will deny us...

Jesus doesn't leave...
the person leaves Jesus.

Read the verse you just posted 2 Tim 2:12

IF a man endures, Jesus will be with the man.
If the man leaves....so also will Jesus leave the man.
Jesus is not with a man he denies.

That man is NOT saved while alive in his flesh.
That man who endures SHALL BE saved at his death.

Same what I already said.

 

[Taken]

I never said God undoes a man's salvation.
The man himself does that.
One must be a believer AT DEATH to be saved.
Not 20 years ago or 2 years ago.

Yes, ALREADY SAID; a man MUST DIE Before he CAN BE SAVED.
Yes, A man MUST believe AT his DEATH to be saved.

No, a man is NOT saved, then can UNDO “received” Salvation.

A man SAVED while ALIVE IN HIS FLESH...DOES DIE..
He is CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST!
He becomes SAV-ED.
He is KEPT SAVED....By the Power of God.....IN him.
KEPT SAVED...BY GODS POWER...
He can NEVER become UNSAVED. Once SAVED...SAVED forever.

A man WHO ENDURES....is SAVED after his physical Death.
WHY?
BECAUSE he ENDURED....<—- CONTINUED TO “BeLIeVe” until his death.
ENDURING, is the man KEEPING IN BELIEF...(NOT saved)...WILL BE SAVED “IF” he keeps believing.
WHO KEEPS this man BELIEVING....the power OF THE MAN...NOT GODS Power.

Already covered this.

 

[Taken]

And they are true. I have shown you the truth many times from scripture and you disregard it.

I have seen no applicable Scriptures you have quoted.

A man who can LOSE his salvation. Can lose it Because he never received it.