The faithful and the saints: Bringing Calvinism and Arminianism together.
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It's all good, I Just have a lot of reading to do.
I Know that something that is so ingrained in the teaching of the church is going to take a lot of time and discussion to convince otherwise, and there will always be die hard traditionalists who will resist this.
I Ask all to consider a tree is known by its fruit, and the fruit of this teaching is division in the church. I Know both Calvinist and Armenians that are Brothers and sisters in Christ and I know we all know in part. The truth is arrived at in the Unity of the Spirit and the bond of peace
No. He can’t. But you might see what I said there but not really see it. It’s not easy for any of us when we start to see some of the spirit of the words and you might see what I answered and only think literally, That the flesh means your human body, and a human body isn’t really what the flesh means in spirit and truth. It’s…different. Your flesh is the part of you that reads and doesn’t really believe but sort of doesn’t know it’s not believing what it read.
It’s the part of you that reads not to worry about the things the world worries about and then worries about a job and money anyway instead of peaceful trust.
It’s your mind and your emotions and your own will about things. That’s what your flesh is. Your sin nature. We think of it as bad things we do with our human body rather than who we are inside. So we try to”be good.”
But what needs to happen is our will needs to die to want what God wants rather than what we want. Our emotions and passions need to die so we can be healthy and in peace rather than ruled over by them.
So when you ask if God can make a man perfect in the flesh, no He can’t. The flesh has to go. It has to die to live for God. And if a man tells you the process of picking up your cross and dying is easy, he is talking about something he absolutely doesn’t know. Dying is only easy after you’re dead. Until then, it’s struggle. It has to happen WHILE He’s working on humility, arrogance and the places where you aren’t REALLY trusting all that He’s said. But if you don’t turn back, when it happens, it happens in an instant. Just in one second, you’re dead to your own will, your passions are calmed, you don’t get angry, you’re patient. It’s a real shock when it happens after all of your struggling, to be suddenly that free.
But concerning your question, the man asked Jesus, what must I do to be saved. Jesus answered from the half of the commandments about caring about your neighbor at least as much as you care about yourself, doing no harm to your neighbor. That’s the bare minimum to be saved.
But when the man said, all these I’ve done, Jesus spoke to him about the other half of the commandments that deal with loving God. He said, well, you asked what must I do to be saved. But if you want to be PERFECT, sell all you have and follow me. This means give up all you have, your will, your own life on earth, die, and follow Me. That’s loving God.
I've been called Gnostic by the ignorant before, it doesn't bother me. Yeah, some people prefer to mock me than respond meaningfully. No big. But it takes away from the discussion, and we are discussing our Maker, and things involving Him, so where is our respect?
I always remember Rich Bueller, host of KBRT radio's Talk from the Heart, the afternoon call in show. I'd hear people call in and ramble on about absurd and erroneous things, and I'd think to myself, how did the screener let this guy on the air? But then Rich would reach into that tapestry of confusion, and pull out something to respond meaningfully, and next thing you know, they are talking for real, deep spiritual things. Rich was amazing!
I want to be like that!
The flesh and the body, and "members", which are body parts, are what are consistently referred to in relation to sin. Medical science regarding the brain even shows at least partly how this happens. Change someone's experience and their brain changes. Changes to the brain make people think and feel differently. But all that aside, the Bible is consistent.
Much love!
:)
I'm not one to say . . . who can judge another's experience? But when you changed, maybe that was when you were baptized into Christ?
Romans 6:3-7 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Much love!
You'd be surprised.
And it seems the higher someone vaunts themself, the more abusive they get. There's a lot of psychology behind that, but no need to get too deep on that! Pride is a killer! They claim visions and holiness and sinlessness and all sorts of things, but reveal their lack of love like the wind shifting directions.
No, my chief objections to bad behavior on this forum are that we could be having really good discussion, but that prevents it. We could be sharing truths with others, but that prevents it. We could be knitting ourselves together in love, but that prevents it. We could be walking in spiritual fruit, but that prevents it. Well . . . we each bear our own fruit. I guess the behavior reveals of what sort of fruit it is.
Much love!
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1 Peter 1:15-18 KJV
15) But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16) Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17) And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18) Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
Much love!
There is how God forgives and how man forgives.
How completely does God forgive? Does He say He He'll send our sins away? Does He say He won't remember them? Do we believe what He says?
Without a correct understanding of justification, this isn't going to make much sense.
Much love!
Gnosticism includes the view that the demiurge who created matter was renegade, and now we who are trapped in evil matter are being rescued back into spirit. Matter is inherently evil, and nothing done in matter matters at all. That's Gnosticism.
The Bible teaches that we were created by God according to His intent, and that He created all things good, but man became corrupted by sin, and the creation was then cursed by God. The Bible describes the corruption to be of our flesh, and names our body, and our flesh as the repository of sin. Good flesh corrupted by sin.
When we realize that, we realize that these feelings and drives and negative thoughts and all this is just the echoes of our dead flesh regurgitating into our lives now, and we can ignore anger or lust or fear or whatever just like we can ignore a smashed thumb, or hunger when it's it's not time to eat.
There is no "flesh nature" as some mysterious and energized dark cloud that hangs over us, pushing us into sin. We are driving a wrecked car, and it's not easy to do. But we get better at it as we go.
For me, realizing that when the Bible says "Flesh", and "body", that it actually means these things, this demystified the process of tempation and sin in the believer.
Something in life happens. Let's say I lose my job. The body response may be a release of stress hormones, adrenaline, like that. The chest tightens, all the feelings of fear are present. In the mind of the flesh, well, you know what it's like! The mind courses through all these thoughts about what horrible things may happen now.
But the spirit response is to trust and rejoice because God is with me, and He loves me, and He is taking care of me.
One response from the body, the flesh, and another response from the Spirit, and we can choose which one we are going to walk in. I've been having shortfalls of money, but I've been choosing to keep my mind on the Spirit.
There is much more I can say on this if you wish.
Much love!
No one can find anyone who can help counsel you or isn’t all filled with the teaching of men that confuses everything,but…yes, it’s the conclusion I came to that if my passions ruling me disappears, gone in a second, and I don’t get mad at people any more, murdering them in secret, then I died. I am no longer sinning as regards caring for others at least as much as I do myself. He actually made me BE righteous. No make believe jumbo jumbo, but really. No stupid theological arguments necessary about was I saved before my death because look at the good He brought me! And He brought it and worked it WHILE I sinned. So I just toss aside the constructs men build and argue over and I say, oh, please, please, believe everything He said and TRUST Him! After you have struggled a while, He will help, confirm and establish you. He will ACTUALLY do it.
But I am actually doing what is acceptable to Him because He did it. In everything He worked on in my mind and all my places of unbelief and all my arrogance and in keeping me from leaven of men. But I am not holy. That’s the other tablet. That’s the one I don’t know. That’s the one I can speak very little on. But He makes a place for men who aren’t holy if they stay humble and refuse to condemn others as they are always strongly pushed to do by the indoctrination of mercilessness. He makes a place! He accepts them. There is no need for any worry. None.
But also, the parable, don’t forget. The mans debt was forgiven and wiped clean but he did not extend that same mercy to another and he went to prison and his debt was reinstated. He wasn’t ripped to pieces, or killed, or destroyed or cast into fire. He went to a prison until he could pay. So there’s hope for him.
So yes, He won’t remember them unless you don’t share that same mercy and forgive their debt against you. Beware the leaven of men and the indoctrination of mercilessness.
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Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
14) For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Ephesians 4:32 KJV
32) And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Why the difference?
Much love!
14) For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Ephesians 4:32 KJV
32) And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Why the difference?
Much love!
1 Peter 5:10 KJV
10) But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
10) But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
It does if you don’t take it together. Think about the parable again. My gosh, the mercy of God! He forgave the mans debt! If you walk away with that, you eventually have to come back to the ending and see He is also severe about not extending the forgiveness you were given.
He is both merciful and severe.
You have to eat the Passover lamb ALONG with the bitter herbs.
You eat the word and it’s sweet as honey in your mouth but it becomes bitter in your stomach.
Interesting comment. What are the bitter herbs to you, the requirements of the Mosaic Covenant?
Much love!
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