The faithful and the saints: Bringing Calvinism and Arminianism together.

[stunnedbygrace]

What happens to you when you are baptized into Christ?

Much love!

Into?
When I received a down payment of the Holy Spirit, I was given to see the Spirit of Jesus’ words, and I understood that the kingdom of God was in me, and that it is what comes out of me that defiles me. I understood whatever is not of trust in God and what He has said is sin. I took that very seriously when I saw I was not trusting but instead worrying. I believed Him that anger is to have already murdered. I actually believe Him about that. And I saw, aha, that is how my righteousness must exceed their righteousness. The inside of my cup must be clean. Because the outside can look clean to men but inside angry murder, filthiness, grudges, unforgiveness, just awful. The biggest besetting sins for me were murder and leaving off trusting God for my temporal provision as He had said to.

But I tried for so, so long to clean my inside. I can tell you, it is impossible. I didn’t seem to grasp that I was trying to finish what the Spirit began and that it was impossible. I literally was one of those foolish Galatians.
I finally understood that I was hungering for true righteousness, that righteousness that exceeds their righteousness if a man wants to ENTER INTO the kingdom of God. I understood that the Spirit didn’t leave me and I didn’t understand why because I was so odious to myself. I hated myself and I hated others. I hated the stupid way everyone pretends on the outside but is angry on the inside and thinking no one can see that brief flare on the face of rage or contempt or impatience at having to listen to your voice before they hide it. I hated the whole useless and false way of life I had learned from my parents and society.

One day I said, I give up. I have no love. I am awful. I would rather die than continue one more day in my own odious skin. I also fail in trust over and over again and I’m too weary to keep trying. It’s all too hard. I can’t be good and neither can anyone else, Christian or not. It’s all futile pretense. I will live the rest of my life and will die in this awful state unless YOU fix me somehow. You will have to give me YOUR love or it’s no good and is the ugly broken way the world loves. I give up. I hope only in your mercy. Please have mercy on me.

I think it was the next afternoon, I realized something was extremely different. But…no one probably even got this far, lol, so I’ll stop!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You already mentioned having your unique sins forgiven, right?

I don’t know what that means…sorry!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This one I want to tiptoe around. MarkS mentioned in another thread that he has been called a Gnostic by other members and I want to be sensitive to that. Paul uses the language of sarx, flesh, to describe the human desire to sin. This language was later used by the Gnostics and Docetics that are condemned in 1 John 4:2-3 and 2 John 1:7. Also, “flesh” has a more positive connotation in the Hebrew scriptures. The NIV translators were so uncomfortable with a literal translation that they translated sarx as “the sinful nature”. I’ll let you decide if our desire to sin is linked to physical flesh.

Oh, psh, who cares what other members call you. They see a wolf around every corner and in every thread when it’s just some poor dang guy talking out loud and trying to figure out how to get closer to God when the kingdom of God is not in word but in power and where is the power? The ones running around shrieking about wolves and heretics sure as heck don’t have that power. They can’t even control their little wagging tongues,

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Well, he's not reckoning himself dead.

It seems that you have perceptions of things that disagree with the straightforward wording of the Bible, but I don't think the answer is to say that when the Bible says the body is dead because of sin, to say, no it's not because I can see it moving.

Much love!

It seems like you have perceptions of things that are…make believe and not actual.

 

[Lambano]

Oh, psh, who cares what other members call you. They see a wolf around every corner and in every thread when it’s just some poor dang guy talking out loud and trying to figure out how to get closer to God when the kingdom of God is not in word but in power and where is the power? The ones running around shrieking about wolves and heretics sure as heck don’t have that power. They can’t even control their little wagging tongues,

I’m not worried about what others think. But MarkS is one of the real good ones around here, and if he’s had to put up with a bunch of crap, I don’t want to add to the load. I did want to share what historical background I had.

 

[Lambano]

I don’t know what that means…sorry!

You really don’t know what “I forgive you” means? You might want to explain a little.

If it’s the word “unique”, that just means those sins that you committed and the Pharisees did not, in case you’re comparing righteousness.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You really don’t know what “I forgive you” means? You might want to explain a little.

If it’s the word “unique”, that just means those sins that you committed and the Pharisees did not, in case you’re comparing righteousness.

Yes, it was unique I didn’t understand. I still don’t, lol…
I don’t know what sins I may have committed but they didn’t…

 

[MatthewG]

Love will bring others together. Differing views and fighting about them will not. State your belief, leave it at that. Don’t fight if someone differs. It’s simple…

LOVE.

 

[Lambano]

Yes, it was unique I didn’t understand. I still don’t, lol…
I don’t know what sins I may have committed but they didn’t…

And they’re not telling!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Love will bring others together. Differing views and fighting about them will not. State your belief, leave it at that. Don’t fight if someone differs. It’s simple…

LOVE.

Oh sweetie, we’re not fighting. I’m quite fond of this brother! We are jousting to see what God might show us. I’ve not once seen fighting from lambano, or hatred.
I’ve never seen them from you either!

 

[Lambano]

Surely you joust…

 

[Lambano]

If our sins are forgiven, does that mean our righteousness meets or exceeds that of the Pharisees?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

If our sins are forgiven, does that mean our righteousness meets or exceeds that of the Pharisees?

I can’t see how. It just means we are forgiven. Read the passage again. It’s saying you have heard don’t murder but I tell you if you have anger you have already murdered…and your righteousness must EXCEED theirs to enter INTO the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is in you, outside of you is a different kingdom, the world. But have you entered into the kingdom of God. It’s in you if you received a deposit of the Holy Spirit, but have you entered into it?

8More than that, I count all things as loss compared to the surpassing excellence of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in Him,not having my own righteousness from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ,the righteousness from God on the basis offaith.

He wanted to be found IN Christ.
He wanted the true righteousness that exceeds their righteousness that only can be found IN Christ. Not the righteousness that is keeping the law on the outside of his cup.
Remain inMe and I in you. We know He is in us. How do we know we are in Him or remaining in Him?

 

[Lambano]

I can’t see how. It just means we are forgiven. Read the passage again. It’s saying you have heard don’t murder but I tell you if you have anger you have already murdered…and your righteousness must EXCEED theirs to enter INTO the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is in you, outside of you is a different kingdom, the world. But have you entered into the kingdom of God. It’s in you if you received a deposit of the Holy Spirit, but have you entered into it?

I was thinking more like, if a particular sin was forgiven, is it like you never committed it? Or another definition of forgiveness, the offense does not affect the relationship.

 

[MatthewG]

If our sins are forgiven, does that mean our righteousness meets or exceeds that of the Pharisees?

Yes, wouldn’t it be because it is simply Jesus who is our righteousness. We can not exceed or meet what He has done yet only allowing him to be our righteousness by faith.

Your thoughts?

Oh sweetie, we’re not fighting. I’m quite fond of this brother! We are jousting to see what God might show us. I’ve not once seen fighting from lambano, or hatred.
I’ve never seen them from you either!

Oh I just like throwing my two cents in from time to time my sister in Christ. Someone might learn from it you never know.

:) I believe there are a lot of kind, loving Christians in here who really do believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and they are mostly desiring of fellowship and having a desire to be needed somehow in this life specially in this field with other believers.

 

[MatthewG]

Romans 10:4 For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

 

[Lambano]

BTW, the εντός in that verse might be better translated as “in your midst” or “among you”, as the NASB does. That is, the Kingdom is among the body of believers.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I was thinking more like, if a particular sin was forgiven, is it like you never committed it? Or another definition of forgiveness, the offense does not affect the relationship.

Tsk!
Where does this make believe stuff come from?
If I punch you in the eye in anger and you forgive me, does it mean I never punched you in the eye? No! It just means you forgive me. Does you forgiving me make me righteous? No…it just makes me forgiven.

It’s the leaven of men to say forgiveness means all these make believe things.

That second one is much better. I began ranting before I saw it lol. Too much caffeine.
The offense does not affect the relationship because even when we are unfaithful, He remains faithful to His promises.

 

[MatthewG]

Forgiveness is to pardon, to be remissioned.

Now if your in an abusive relationship with someone who physically abuses you, and harms you. Is it good to be in this situation!? No you may need to get help, and move away. Some people that don’t seem to have no where else to go may stay and are to afraid to leave…

You can forgive your abuser, but that doesn’t mean the trauma leaves you from the abuse you experienced.

My mother was beat by my father, he was would get drunk, and go out and party. My mother finally ended up getting out of the situation. Did she forgive him? Surely.

My mother has been used many times for money, and eventually she had to put her foot down because the family wouldn’t pay back, and sometimes she would lose out because of it. Does she forgive those who used her? Surely? She may say she won’t do it again but if someone is in need of help she will most likely give again.

My mother also would cause ruckus to though, lol. She isn’t a saint. She beat up someone outside the city apartments in Detroit who my father would cheat on with.

 

[Lambano]

Does you forgiving me make me righteous? No…it just makes me forgiven.

Now wait. The relationship is still intact. Does that mean the obligations have been met and we’re “right” with each other?