Defining Proper Language

[marks]

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20.

Defining proper language:

The language of believer's should be as bold as Paul. Our witness of Christianity, and being a Christian should be as bold as Paul. The boldness of Paul was he pulled no punches, he didn't beat around the bushes ..so to say.

-- Paul said it plainly and boldly "Christ," lived in him. And to those that hear him - he said Christ is the only life of the believer! He proclaimed his gospel was given to him by Jesus Christ to give to us - the born again. Now the only other person that I know that said that is Joseph Smith - he started Mormonism. He claims he had a vision or talk, and the Mormon religion came from that. That sounds so far fetched and is but people believe it and we question it to the imp degree.

But with Paul we do not question it ..when we should. If we believe Paul then we should question what he says! Prove Paul like we prove all scripture. Don't let him say things and not back up what he says in scripture as his gospel. That should be proved or disapproved..but it is imperative for Christians to prove it or not!

It would sound funny to say to everyone you walk up to and give a witness - Christ lives in me. People already think you are a crazy Christian. Wait until you tell them Christ lives in you.. and then tell them "wait until you see my father." But that is the language that needs to be used because it identifies what a Christian is. It gives proper identity to Christianity. Everyone can say I'm a Christian or I'm born again. I want to hear the born again politician say " Christ liveth in me, and the life I live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God." Anyone for that matter. Define what you mean by your religious views. Words are cheap, and proper defining language is fitting. You don't have to worry it won't happen. I'm sure Paul used wisdom in the deliverance of his message.

Paul was very pointed, and bold to tell those that would listen - Christ lived in him. There was no theorizing ..and giving 5 finer points on what he believed ..and how he had a vision of the end time..and now he knows who the antichrist is - no! No he spoke a different language. Scripture says Jesus did not speak like other men! Paul was not ashamed of Christ in him. And we see nothing different about Paul being used by God to give the born again their message and language.

We cannot see; if you cannot see how God choose Paul for the eclectic event of bringing in a message to this new creation people..the blinders are still on!

The days of "the Lydia heart" and passion for Christ life knowledge.. seems to have waned. We stay open to the Spirit to hear what it is He would say to the church. A closed heart cannot receive the things of God ..not the deep things of God that must be revealed. I will reject the things of God based on what I believe. Like what I believe is going to resolve the world's trouble. Not yielding to the Holy Spirit brings trouble - the schoolhouse is an ever present help and reminder of that, Gal. 2:1-2.

Have you ever been brought down where nothing mattered - not what you believe..not your faith..not the flesh..not the world..not the devil. If you did not get some relief, and something doesn't happen, you feel you are not going to make it, so nothing mattered. That is the schoolhouse that must work in a life to bring born again believers to see what it is their father wants in His timing as scripture says! Galatians 2:1-2.

God calls those things that are not as though they are!

Not because He is a liar, but because He creates with a word.

Much love!

 

[marks]

it seems to me that "Christ lives in me" is metaphorical.

Christ in you, the hope of glory. No Christ in you, what is your hope of glory?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I always thought boldly the way Paul meant it was that he had full confidence in Christ and the message he was to give. Not that he would go bang someone over the head with what he said, but that he fully believed it, and could preach it with confidence.

Just like

"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need" Heb 4:16

We know that if we have sinned and are truly sorry, that we have full confidence that He will forgive us. We have a direct path to Christ.

Hebrews 13:5-6 KJV
5) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
6) So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Christ in you, the hope of glory. No Christ in you, what is your hope of glory?

Much love!

The question is answered metaphorically.

 

[marks]

The question is answered metaphorically.

Why would that be metaphor? Why wouldn't you accept it at it's face value? That Jesus shares living in this body with me?

Jesus said He'd make His home in you, do you not believe?

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Why would that be metaphor? Why wouldn't you accept it at it's face value?

See post #17

 

[marks]

See post #17

So it's a credibility issue? You don't believe it can happen?

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

So it's a credibility issue? You don't believe it can happen?

Much love!

No. It’s figurative use of language if anything is for the reasons given. Much of the Bible is highly figurative.

One example is God telling Adam and Eve they will die the day they ate the forbidden fruit. 900 years later, sure enough, they died.

 

[marks]

No. It’s figurative use of language if anything is for the reasons given.

Wasn't that your reason? "It doesn't happen"?

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Wasn't that your reason? "It doesn't happen"?

Much love!

No. Just ignore the timing of Adam dying.

If you don’t grasp post #17, so be it.

 

[soul man]

Big questions. I don't understand your question about my salvation. Please clarify.

Regarding how I see the cross; I see it as a test of ones humility. If one cannot accept the (sacrificial) work of Jesus is why we are saved - as opposed to our own work, we fail the test.

I have one more question if I may? Do you see yourself crucified with Christ on the cross.

 

[Wrangler]

I have one more question if I may? Do you see yourself crucified with Christ on the cross.

At times.

Daily, at times. Other times, I struggle with my ego, pride, sense of self-righteousness. Being crucified with Christ on the cross often seems far too much an honor for me - more than I deserve.

 

[keithr]

Much of the Bible is highly figurative.

One example is God telling Adam and Eve they will die the day they ate the forbidden fruit. 900 years later, sure enough, they died.

That's perhaps not the best example, because it's mainly down to a translation problem. A more precise translation of the Hebrew, as indicated in the KJV footnote, is "in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. [{thou shalt surely … : Heb. dying thou shalt die }]" (Genesis 2:17). Similarly the YLT (Young's Literal Translation) translates it as "in the day of thine eating of it—dying thou dost die", and the Literal Standard Version translates it as "in the day of your eating from it—dying you die". So it is saying that when they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, from that moment, or that day, they became phsyically imperfect and slowly started started to die (decay), and they would inevitably eventally die. Adam lived to be 930 years old, because he was created physically perfect and the conditions on earth at that time (before the flood) were more conducive to longer life.

 

[MatthewG]

@Wrangler they did die spiritually, all people are dead spiritually until they let God and the Lord Jesus Christ into their life.

 

[Wrangler]

That's perhaps not the best example, because it's mainly down to a translation problem. A more precise translation of the Hebrew, as indicated in the KJV footnote, is "in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

I have no idea how you can possibly think the least precise translation helps in any way. Did Adam:
A. Die the day he ate the forbidden fruit.
B. Die centuries after eating the forbidden fruit?

 

[Wrangler]

@Wrangler they did die spiritually, all people are dead spiritually until they let God and the Lord Jesus Christ into their life.

I've heard this countless times. Adding the qualifier "spiritually" is not God's word. It makes God's word figurative, which is my point.

 

[keithr]

I have no idea how you can possibly think the least precise translation helps in any way.

Err, I don't understand that! I said "A more precise translation", not 'the least precise translation'.

Did Adam:
A. Die the day he ate the forbidden fruit.

No. The day they ate some fruit from the tree they began to die. It was not figurative or metaphorical language, it was a clear statement of truth. The original language stated "dying, you shall die" i.e. you will start dying that day and you will eventually die.

B. Die centuries after eating the forbidden fruit?

Yes.

 

[Wrangler]

Err, I don't understand that! I said "A more precise translation", not 'the least precise translation'.

Yea, you were simply mistaken. The KJV had it day in the sun - half a Millenia ago. Not only is the FROM text improved, because we no longer speak the king's Middle English, the TO is also the least precise translation available today.

No. The day they ate some fruit from the tree they began to die.

You are adding words to God's word to fit your doctrine and ignore the figurative use of language. Scripture does not say the 'began' to die that day - or they 'spiritually' died that day. It says they will die that day. In fact, they did not die for nearly a millennia. This is a hallmark of figurative use of language.

 

[keithr]

You are adding words to God's word to fit your doctrine and ignore the figurative use of language. Scripture does not say they 'began' to die that day - or they 'spiritually' died that day. It says they will die that day. In fact, they did not die for nearly a millennia. This is a hallmark of figurative use of language.

I wasn't adding to God's word, I simply said that, as the KJV footnote states, the literal translation of the Hebrew is not just "die", but is "dying you shall die". I then explained that by saying it means that they started to die (dying) and that eventually they would die (you shall die), although it's not that hard to understand!

If you want to get more techincal about it (above my knowledge of language) then I found this web page - Genesis 2:17—“You Shall Surely Die”. For those who don't want to read it all (it's not that long) it's conclusion is:

So, from all this we conclude that the construction “dying you shall die” and beyôm in Genesis 2:17 do not require us to conclude that God was warning that “the very day you eat from the tree is the exact same day that you will die physically.” The Hebrew wording of Genesis 2:17 allows for a time lapse between the instantaneous spiritual death on that sad day of disobedience and the later physical death (which certainly did happen, just as God said, but for Adam it was 930 years later). As Scripture consistently teaches, both kinds of death (spiritual and physical) are the consequence of Adam’s rebellion. Therefore, Hugh Ross and other old-earth proponents are not correct when they say that spiritual death was the only consequence of Adam’s rebellion at the Fall.​

 

[Wrangler]

I wasn't adding to God's word, I simply said that, as the KJV footnote states, the literal translation of the Hebrew is not just "die", but is "dying you shall die".

I take it this literal translation appeals to you. However, it makes no logical sense in any language does it?

The CJB has the best translation I found to match what you are saying about GE 2:17. "You are not to eat from it, because on the day that you eat from it, it will become certain that you will die.”