"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible" Mark 10:27
The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
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Davy
Well-Known Member
No, He died for all... who believe on Him as God's promised Savior. He is not just Lord and King over Israel, but also over the Gentiles. The dividing point is about those who believe on Him, vs. those who do not. That is what determines who He saves.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
When privilege is taken for granted the position of the older brother in the story of the prodigal is assumed without blinking an eye.
There is no compassion for the wayward in real terms; this is manifest in the superimposing of the carnal dividing mindset of them and us onto God as if he is like one of themselves.
To quote a clip from Orwell’s Animal Farm; ‘animals are not to sleep in beds’ was the rule but the pigs then modified it overnight and added ‘except with sheets’.
There is no compassion for the wayward in real terms; this is manifest in the superimposing of the carnal dividing mindset of them and us onto God as if he is like one of themselves.
To quote a clip from Orwell’s Animal Farm; ‘animals are not to sleep in beds’ was the rule but the pigs then modified it overnight and added ‘except with sheets’.
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God has redeemed only His People as Promised !
Lk 1:68
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
Also cp Matt 1:21
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
That's right, the Jesus here spoken of had only one group of people Salvation at Heart, The Elect of God or Israel, God's Elect from every tribe nation tongue and people, Abraham's Spiritual Seed.
That's why back in the Luke 1 account it reads in connection with redemption and Salvation Lk 1:54-55,72-73 730
54 He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
Christ is that Promise, all the promises of God are ended in Him 2 Cor 1:20
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
Rom 15:8-10
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.
That's why His People in Matt 1:21 does include elect Gentiles !
God has only one people in this world, upon this earth, and that is the seed of Abraham, His friends Isa 41:8
But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
Heb 2:16
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. He did not come and identify with all mankind in the things pertaining to God and reconciliation, but only did He Identify with His Bride the Church and the Seed of Abraham, they're the same. If Christ is the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16 and the Head of the Church, and He and His Body are One, then that makes His Body also the Seed of Abraham, for the Body and Head are One 1 Cor 12:12
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
Now is this Christ and the One here the Same one ? Gal 3:16
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
I believe they're the same Christ !
Men are redeemed by His Life given and He giveth it as the Good Shepherd of the Sheep Jn 10:11
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Not the goats !
Lk 1:68
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
Also cp Matt 1:21
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
That's right, the Jesus here spoken of had only one group of people Salvation at Heart, The Elect of God or Israel, God's Elect from every tribe nation tongue and people, Abraham's Spiritual Seed.
That's why back in the Luke 1 account it reads in connection with redemption and Salvation Lk 1:54-55,72-73 730
54 He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
Christ is that Promise, all the promises of God are ended in Him 2 Cor 1:20
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
Rom 15:8-10
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.
That's why His People in Matt 1:21 does include elect Gentiles !
God has only one people in this world, upon this earth, and that is the seed of Abraham, His friends Isa 41:8
But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
Heb 2:16
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. He did not come and identify with all mankind in the things pertaining to God and reconciliation, but only did He Identify with His Bride the Church and the Seed of Abraham, they're the same. If Christ is the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16 and the Head of the Church, and He and His Body are One, then that makes His Body also the Seed of Abraham, for the Body and Head are One 1 Cor 12:12
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
Now is this Christ and the One here the Same one ? Gal 3:16
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
I believe they're the same Christ !
Men are redeemed by His Life given and He giveth it as the Good Shepherd of the Sheep Jn 10:11
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Not the goats !
Scriptures that Teach Limited Atonement !
There are many scriptures that teach limited atonement, the fact that The Salvation of God through Christ, its is Limited to only a certain People; Lets look at Lk 1:68-69
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
Note the sacrded words, He [ The Lord God of Israel] hath raised up a Horn of Salvation, FOR US IN THE HOUSE OF DAVID, that's particular redemption.
Now is the House of David everyone in the world without exception ? Any truthful , honest heart will acknowledge that its not, so this passage witnesses to us that in the Divine Purpose Salvation is unto us in the House of David, the Elect of God amongst mankind !
There are many scriptures that teach limited atonement, the fact that The Salvation of God through Christ, its is Limited to only a certain People; Lets look at Lk 1:68-69
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
Note the sacrded words, He [ The Lord God of Israel] hath raised up a Horn of Salvation, FOR US IN THE HOUSE OF DAVID, that's particular redemption.
Now is the House of David everyone in the world without exception ? Any truthful , honest heart will acknowledge that its not, so this passage witnesses to us that in the Divine Purpose Salvation is unto us in the House of David, the Elect of God amongst mankind !
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Your rabbiting on about this does you a disservice and offers confusion for the new believer. In effect you disseminate a false Gospel!
Redemption in Christ Jesus is Limited to a people !
Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Also in the greek this redemption reads with the definite article :
δικαιούμενοι δωρεὰν τῇ αὐτοῦ χάριτι διὰ τῆς ἀπολυτρώσεως τῆς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ
So lets get this clear, there is only one method of Redemption or means of Redemption, that which is accomplished through Christ Jesus , and as I am going to show from scripture, that its restricted to a single people, its Particular Redemption that is in Christ Jesus !
That its restricted to only a particular people, a people of God's Own choice its seen here Gal 4:4-6
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Now who are the them here ? Its to whomsover God sends forth the Spirit of His Son into their hearts, that [hina] in order that we mayy receive the Adoption of Sons ! Now thats very particular as well as certain !
All for whom He came to redeem shall call on God through the Spirit " Abba, Father."
Also they had been predestined to receive that Adoption Eph 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Thats why God sends the Spirit of His Son in their hearts ! Here its the adoption of Children, but its the same word huios Sons as in Gal 4:5
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
So without dispute, thats the Specific THEM that Christ was made under the Law in behalf of, to redeem THEM Gal 4:4-5
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
The end result being Vs 6
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
If you or i never receive the Spirit of Adoption, manifesting us to to be the Sons or Children of God, then we never belonged to God as per indicated here Rom 8:9
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
If we belonged to God, Christ died for us and redeemed us, then God sends the Spirit of Christ His Son into our hearts proving that we were redeemed by Christ's Blood !
But if not, it simply means that Christ's Redemptive death was not for us ! That Redemption in Christ Jesus was not for us, because we never belonged to God !
Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Also in the greek this redemption reads with the definite article :
δικαιούμενοι δωρεὰν τῇ αὐτοῦ χάριτι διὰ τῆς ἀπολυτρώσεως τῆς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ
So lets get this clear, there is only one method of Redemption or means of Redemption, that which is accomplished through Christ Jesus , and as I am going to show from scripture, that its restricted to a single people, its Particular Redemption that is in Christ Jesus !
That its restricted to only a particular people, a people of God's Own choice its seen here Gal 4:4-6
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Now who are the them here ? Its to whomsover God sends forth the Spirit of His Son into their hearts, that [hina] in order that we mayy receive the Adoption of Sons ! Now thats very particular as well as certain !
All for whom He came to redeem shall call on God through the Spirit " Abba, Father."
Also they had been predestined to receive that Adoption Eph 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Thats why God sends the Spirit of His Son in their hearts ! Here its the adoption of Children, but its the same word huios Sons as in Gal 4:5
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
So without dispute, thats the Specific THEM that Christ was made under the Law in behalf of, to redeem THEM Gal 4:4-5
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
The end result being Vs 6
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
If you or i never receive the Spirit of Adoption, manifesting us to to be the Sons or Children of God, then we never belonged to God as per indicated here Rom 8:9
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
If we belonged to God, Christ died for us and redeemed us, then God sends the Spirit of Christ His Son into our hearts proving that we were redeemed by Christ's Blood !
But if not, it simply means that Christ's Redemptive death was not for us ! That Redemption in Christ Jesus was not for us, because we never belonged to God !
Redemption in Christ Jesus is Limited to a people 2
In light of to whom the Redemption in Christ Jesus was specifically for, Abraham had a Seed in the Nations among the Gentiles, for it was Abraham's Seed that was under the Law, Abraham had a Spiritual Seed among the Nations, not just among the ethnic jews, and they as Heirs of Abraham, shall receive the Promise of the Spirit of Adoption, as a result of Redemption through Christ Jesus, Gal 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Its the same Promise being elucidated as in Gal 4:4-7, and by this the Gospel Promise to Abraham is fulfilled, which is declared here Gal 3:8
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Their Justification by Faith comes through receiving the Blessing of Abraham, which is the Spirit Gal 3:14
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
The same Spirit of Adoption as Per Gal 4:6
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
In light of to whom the Redemption in Christ Jesus was specifically for, Abraham had a Seed in the Nations among the Gentiles, for it was Abraham's Seed that was under the Law, Abraham had a Spiritual Seed among the Nations, not just among the ethnic jews, and they as Heirs of Abraham, shall receive the Promise of the Spirit of Adoption, as a result of Redemption through Christ Jesus, Gal 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Its the same Promise being elucidated as in Gal 4:4-7, and by this the Gospel Promise to Abraham is fulfilled, which is declared here Gal 3:8
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Their Justification by Faith comes through receiving the Blessing of Abraham, which is the Spirit Gal 3:14
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
The same Spirit of Adoption as Per Gal 4:6
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Agreed he/she is a hyper calvinist. I'm ok with calvinists just not the extreme hypers. I deal with this person on another forum and none of the calvinists support his/her dogma. And good luck getting the person to engage in a conversation or answer a few simple questions.
I have asked the person several times to define the gospel never to receive a direct answer. The answer I get is read mt thread or post its explained. But it never is or defined.
good luck...............
The scripture never ever stated anything about Christ coming to save all mankind without exception, but only a segment of mankind, and that segment is the World He Loved and gave Himself for. I have witnessed to the fact that God has promised to save only one People in scripture, and Faith believes and rests in God's Promise, nothing else. Here is who God has promised to save with everlasting Salvation Isa 45:17
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
So Christ died for and was raised again a Saviour unto Who ? Acts 13:23
23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Another scriptural witness Lk 1:54,55,68,69,70793
54 He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Christ was raised up a Horn of Salvation for US IN THE HOUSE OF DAVID, AS HE SPAKE by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
That Promise to save only a specific people traces back to since the world began ! It was the House of David He promised to save from the beginning, and according to His Promise Acts 13:22-23
22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave their testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
So Christ died for and was raised again a Saviour unto Who ? Acts 13:23
23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Another scriptural witness Lk 1:54,55,68,69,70793
54 He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Christ was raised up a Horn of Salvation for US IN THE HOUSE OF DAVID, AS HE SPAKE by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
That Promise to save only a specific people traces back to since the world began ! It was the House of David He promised to save from the beginning, and according to His Promise Acts 13:22-23
22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave their testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
There is not one Bible version I know of that doesn't say the whole world regarding 1 John 2:2. And in the parable of the 10 talents, the whole kingdom was Christ's. No-one was exempt from His rule. His love, His mercy and goodness was freely available for every man...
KJV Luke 19:12, 14, 27
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
But not everyone was willing.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
These citizens had no less advantage than any other. Yet they chose not to receive Him Whom had given so much... Himself.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Christ died for all, tasting death for every man. 2 Corinthians 5:14; Hebrews 2:9. There is no reason for anyone to die the second death except that he had resisted or rejected the salvation already given him in Christ.
KJV Hebrews 2:3
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect* so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
The Greek word neglect in the KJV means despise...
KJV Matthew 22:5
5 But they made light* of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
272 ἀμελέω ameleo am-el-eh’-o
from 1 (as a negative particle) and 3199; v;
AV-neglect 2, make light of 1, regard not 1, be negligent 1; 5
1) to be careless of, to neglect
KJV Luke 19:12, 14, 27
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
But not everyone was willing.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
These citizens had no less advantage than any other. Yet they chose not to receive Him Whom had given so much... Himself.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Christ died for all, tasting death for every man. 2 Corinthians 5:14; Hebrews 2:9. There is no reason for anyone to die the second death except that he had resisted or rejected the salvation already given him in Christ.
KJV Hebrews 2:3
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect* so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
The Greek word neglect in the KJV means despise...
KJV Matthew 22:5
5 But they made light* of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
272 ἀμελέω ameleo am-el-eh’-o
from 1 (as a negative particle) and 3199; v;
AV-neglect 2, make light of 1, regard not 1, be negligent 1; 5
1) to be careless of, to neglect
Christ as a Mediator !
Christ as a Mediator ! 1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Heb 12:24
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Mediator for Christ is an Administrative appellative which has to do with Christ transacting the affairs of Salvation between God and man, His chosen people . His mediating has to do with the Salvation of men, men of the covenant or children of the covenant Acts 3:25
Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.803
Therefore He is the Mediator of the New Covenant Heb 12:24
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Heb 8:6
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Now understand something, His Mediator office in 1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
It is exactly the same as in Heb 12:24; 8:6, and so the all men concerned are the same, The Children of the Covenant Acts 3:25, the House of Israel and Judah Heb 8:6-8 ;
And it is God's will for them to be saved and to come into the Knowledge of the Truth 1 Tim 2:4-6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all[The children of the covenant Acts 3:25], to be testified in due time.
They do receive the Knowledge of the Truth through the Mediator of the Covenant as Per Heb 8:11
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
They will know Him savingly, acknowledging the Truth Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
They through His Mediatorship receive a Saving Knowledge of the Truth, which is the proposal of action in 1 Tim 2:4
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
And this Knowledge of the Truth is interrelated with the Knowledge of Knowing Him in Heb 8:11
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me[Savingly], from the least to the greatest.
Christ as a Mediator ! 1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Heb 12:24
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Mediator for Christ is an Administrative appellative which has to do with Christ transacting the affairs of Salvation between God and man, His chosen people . His mediating has to do with the Salvation of men, men of the covenant or children of the covenant Acts 3:25
Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.803
Therefore He is the Mediator of the New Covenant Heb 12:24
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Heb 8:6
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Now understand something, His Mediator office in 1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
It is exactly the same as in Heb 12:24; 8:6, and so the all men concerned are the same, The Children of the Covenant Acts 3:25, the House of Israel and Judah Heb 8:6-8 ;
And it is God's will for them to be saved and to come into the Knowledge of the Truth 1 Tim 2:4-6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all[The children of the covenant Acts 3:25], to be testified in due time.
They do receive the Knowledge of the Truth through the Mediator of the Covenant as Per Heb 8:11
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
They will know Him savingly, acknowledging the Truth Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
They through His Mediatorship receive a Saving Knowledge of the Truth, which is the proposal of action in 1 Tim 2:4
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
And this Knowledge of the Truth is interrelated with the Knowledge of Knowing Him in Heb 8:11
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me[Savingly], from the least to the greatest.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I see no reason for anyone to debate that. Unless you are intimating it supports something you didn't include in post.
Christ as a Mediator ! 2
When speaking of Christ as an Mediator, its an different aspect of His Being than in His Essential Deity as the Word of God which is God Jn 1:1, We have a Triune God , Father , Word/ Son, and Holy Ghost; Now in this Godhead Trinity He is Essentially God as is the Father and the Holy Ghost, He therein is Original, Eternal, and Underived in any sense of the word, but as Mediator and Son of God, He is not Essentially God, and the Power He has, He has been invested with, He has Essential and underived Power as the Word of God Ps 33:6; And a Mediatoral Power which is given Him as an grant from the Father Matt 28:18; Jn 17:2; As Mediator Son of God Power is given Him, as the Essential Word of God, all Power is His Inherently, and not given, but Essentially His as its is of the Father and the Spirit !
When speaking of Christ as an Mediator, its an different aspect of His Being than in His Essential Deity as the Word of God which is God Jn 1:1, We have a Triune God , Father , Word/ Son, and Holy Ghost; Now in this Godhead Trinity He is Essentially God as is the Father and the Holy Ghost, He therein is Original, Eternal, and Underived in any sense of the word, but as Mediator and Son of God, He is not Essentially God, and the Power He has, He has been invested with, He has Essential and underived Power as the Word of God Ps 33:6; And a Mediatoral Power which is given Him as an grant from the Father Matt 28:18; Jn 17:2; As Mediator Son of God Power is given Him, as the Essential Word of God, all Power is His Inherently, and not given, but Essentially His as its is of the Father and the Spirit !
Well as Mediator His saving interest is only for a definite covenant people, His Israel see Heb 8. And His Israel is defined by ethnicity, but by Faith in Him, of any ethnicity.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I suppose you know who the covenant people are?...and who they are not?..... because if you tell those who are not the covenant people that God loves them to the point of giving his life for them, you are actually lying to them. Is this not the case?
All shall be saved by His Life, whom He died for !
We know that Christ did not die for all without exception by what is taught by Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
This verse ensures that all whom were reconciled to God by Christ's death, even while they are being enemies/unbelievers, being therefore reconciled, they shall be , not maybe, but shall be saved by His Life !
No, their being God's enenemies/unbelievers shall not prevent them from being saved by His Life ! The primary reason for this is the fact that His Life, is also their Life ! Thats right, He did not rise to life as a private person, but as the Head and Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
The Shepherd and Sheep share one Life, like as a Husband and Wife !
Thats why Paul wrote Col 3:4
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
So, His Life in Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
It is really, Our Life, and that Life because its theirs as well as His, must be communicated to them 1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
As Adam's life and death was theirs, so likewise Christ's[The Last Adam] Life, Death, and Life again is theirs ! And they shall all be saved by that Life, which we know all without exception shall not be !
We know that Christ did not die for all without exception by what is taught by Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
This verse ensures that all whom were reconciled to God by Christ's death, even while they are being enemies/unbelievers, being therefore reconciled, they shall be , not maybe, but shall be saved by His Life !
No, their being God's enenemies/unbelievers shall not prevent them from being saved by His Life ! The primary reason for this is the fact that His Life, is also their Life ! Thats right, He did not rise to life as a private person, but as the Head and Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
The Shepherd and Sheep share one Life, like as a Husband and Wife !
Thats why Paul wrote Col 3:4
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
So, His Life in Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
It is really, Our Life, and that Life because its theirs as well as His, must be communicated to them 1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
As Adam's life and death was theirs, so likewise Christ's[The Last Adam] Life, Death, and Life again is theirs ! And they shall all be saved by that Life, which we know all without exception shall not be !
The world of 2 Cor 5:19 a reconciled world !
The world of 2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.808
The world here cannot in any wise be all men without exception as false claimed, simply based upon what is stated of this world, that God hath not imputed to it its trespasses, which also means that this worlds sins have been remitted , and therefore all of them that comprise this world are legally Justified from all sin, or freed from sin ; of which we know is not the case with all men without exception, its not the case with those who are already condemned Jn 3:18 and those whom are under God's wrath Jn 3:36, which things can only be true whenever God is holding them accountable for their sins against His Law, but how can that be to anyone of that world of 2 Cor 5:19 ? Frankly its impossible !
The world of 2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.808
The world here cannot in any wise be all men without exception as false claimed, simply based upon what is stated of this world, that God hath not imputed to it its trespasses, which also means that this worlds sins have been remitted , and therefore all of them that comprise this world are legally Justified from all sin, or freed from sin ; of which we know is not the case with all men without exception, its not the case with those who are already condemned Jn 3:18 and those whom are under God's wrath Jn 3:36, which things can only be true whenever God is holding them accountable for their sins against His Law, but how can that be to anyone of that world of 2 Cor 5:19 ? Frankly its impossible !
Not without the regenerating power of God for belief. Nope.
We're all goats. There are some that God was pleased to make His sheep. Only the SHEEP... HIS SHEEP hear his voice. And He knows only them. And only they will follow the Good Shepherd.
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