What exactly was Rome restraining? Wasn't Rome more of an evil power itself?
Much love!
The Restrainer. And the Restrained.
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Much love!
I think it is in that Paul and the early church was living under that beast and discussing the inevitable appearances of the horns that will replace it... Especially that pesky little horn. So the identity of that beast bears a direct testimony to our understanding of the identity of the horns that grew from it. And when. And their impact on God's people. And their place in prophecy.
They were an evil power. A persecuting power. A pagan power. A sun worshipping power. But the Christian Church knew precisely who they were dealing with. There was no deception involved. Everyone knew that pagan Rome was an enemy to be feared. But the power that would replace Rome? Jesus warned that the greater enemy would be the one in sheep's clothing. The one that would deceive and pretend to be Christ. The one that would counterfeit truth. A far more dangerous enemy is that one you don't recognize.
I'm still not understanding, I'm sorry! What is the "mystery of iniquity", and how was Rome restraining it?
Much love!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Sometimes the thread of thought is hard to follow, right...? :)
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
As for the restrainer and the idea that the last seven years has to do with not only the Church overcoming its flaws, but for the last partially blinded Jews to finally be able to see and brought into the Church, I think the restrainer is Israel's archangel assigned to them, Michael.
Rome's pope might be the false prophet, but not the Antichrist. The Antichrist will be a political figure over a one world government.
Rome's pope might be the false prophet, but not the Antichrist. The Antichrist will be a political figure over a one world government.
Im not sure we’re people get this from below are the only mentions of the antichrist in the bible and it says nothing about a political figure over a one world government
1 John 2:18
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
1 John 2:22
22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3
3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
2 John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
It sounds exactly like apostate Israel
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
It sounds not just exactly like apostate israel , BUT MOST ALL OUR CHURCHES TODAY .
DENIERS that one must truly BELIEVE IN JESUS to be saved . YOU can hardly get a straight answer
now a days to that statement .
I know a dear sister . This sister lost her husband one night . It was sudden and quick .
She was sad , as we can all understand . But when she approached a certain lady bishop
with a question concerning her husband . The lady tried to sell my sister a bill of goods . Tried to act like
Even if one didnt confess JESUS they were still saved .
Now most folks would have hugged that lady and said glory to GOD . But not my sister . No , not her .
SHE said ONE HAS TO BELIEVE IN JESUS TO BE SAVED . My sister was not taking the false comfort of this world or churches .
SHE KNEW and KNOWS , and that by GRACE , THAT ONE MUST TRULY BELIEVE IN JESUS TO BE SAVED .
And her words are the BIBLCAL JESUS . WHICH WORDS I ECHO . Cause any other jesus , well it aint JESUS .
Take heed the first jesus aint capitalized , for a reason . Cause its satan.
Yes I totally agree with you and your sister is very wise good for her.
My point in my comment was who would John be talking about to his audience in his time. The ones who were persecuting the church apostate Israel
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CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
He is the little horn in Daniel 7,
and the beast in Revelation
- Revelation 12:3
And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.
- Revelation 13:1
The Beast from the Sea
Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.
- Revelation 17:3
So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
- Revelation 17:7
The Meaning of the Woman and the Beast
But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.
- Revelation 17:12
“The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.
- Revelation 17:16
And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
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Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Hi again marks,
As per the NKJV and its translation of anomia and anomos, we have the hidden lawlessness at work and the undisclosed lawless one restrained from manifesting.
Consequential to the disclosure and manifestation of the lawless one is the Lord's Return which results in the lawless one being consumed as described below:
2Th 2:7-12 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. (8) And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. (9) The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, (10) and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (11) And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, (12) that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Obviously through the centuries God Himself has been restraining the lawless one from manifesting "according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders etc., and as described in Rev 13 otherwise we would not be having this conversation.
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All this he had taught the Thessalonians when he was there with them, and therefore reminded them, in the 5th verse, "Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?". Then, having recalled to their minds the fact, he simply appeals to their knowledge, and says, "And now ye know what withholdeth that he [the son of perdition] might be revealed in his time." (This plainly sets forth the prophecy of a great falling away or apostasy from the truth of the gospel). The purity of the gospel of Christ would be corrupted and its intent perverted. The falling away of which Paul wrote to the Thessalonians, is referred to in his counsel to the elder to the church at Ephesus, whom he called to meet him at Miletus. To them he said: "For I know this that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch and remember that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears." Acts 20: 29-31.
This warning was not alone to the people of Ephesus in the three years that he was there. It is mentioned throughout all his epistles.
It was from those who would arise not only speaking perverse things, but "speaking perverse things to draw away disciples after them." Through error of judgment, a man might speak perverse things with no bad intention; but the ones here mentioned would speak perverse things purposely and with the intention of making disciples for themselves -- to draw away disciples after them instead of to draw disciples to Christ. These would pervert the truth and would have to pervert the truth, in order to accomplish their purpose. He who always speaks the truth as it is in Jesus, will draw disciples to Jesus and not to himself. To draw to Christ will be his only wish. But when one seeks to draw disciples to himself, and puts himself in the place of Christ, then he must pervert the truth, and accommodate it to the wishes of those whom he hopes to make his own disciples. This is wickedness; this is apostasy. There was another consideration which made the danger the more imminent. These words were spoken to the bishops. It was a company of bishops, to whom the apostle was speaking when he said: "Of your own selves shall men arise speaking perverse things to draw away disciples after them." From that order of men who were chosen to guide and to care for the church of Christ, from those who were set to protect the church -- from this order of men there would be those who would pervert their calling, their office, and the purpose of it, to build up themselves, and gather disciples to themselves in the place of Christ. To watch this spirit, to check its influence, and to guard against its workings, was constant effort of the apostle; and for the reason as stated to the Thessalonians, that the mystery of iniquity was already working. There were at that time elements abroad which the apostle could plainly see would develop into all that the Scriptures had announced. And scarcely were the last of the apostles dead when the evil appeared in its practical workings. No sooner were the apostles removed from the stage of action, no sooner was their watchful attention gone, and their apostolic authority removed, than this very thing appeared of which the apostle had spoken. Certain bishops, in order to make easier the conversion of the heathen; to multiply disciples, and by this increase their own influence and authority; began to adopt heathen customs and forms. When the canon of Scripture was closed, and the last of the apostles was dead, the first century was gone; and within twenty years of that time the perversion of the truth of Christ had become widespread. In the history of this century and of this subject the record is, -- "It is certain that to religious worship, both public and private, many rites were added, without necessity, and to the offense of sober and good men." -- Mosheim.1
The paganization of Christianity began in earnest. The introduction of pagan rites and traditions, created a monster. A beast arose as described in Revelation 13:1 having components of philosophy and pagan rites borrowed from all the 4 cultures that preceded it, and they all at their very heart, involved the mystery religions of sun worship.
"Among the Greeks and the people of the East, nothing was held more sacred than what were called the mysteries. These circumstances led the Christians, in order to impart dignity to their religion, to say that they also had similar mysteries, or certain holy rites concealed from the vulgar... The 'catechumen'... The 'goyim'...and they not only applied the terms used in the pagan mysteries to Christian institutions, particularly baptism and the Lord's supper, but they gradually introduced also the rites which were designated by those terms." -- Mosheim.3
This exists to this day where the upper elite echelons/levels of power in Freemasonry, Catholicism, Islam, and all secret societies hold to the 'mysteries' , while the common herd is fed the religion of whatever geographic culture of society they live in. Which is why on the table in the Freemason lodge lies the Koran and the Bible.
VictoryinJesus
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2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. [7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. [8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
My question concerning: now you know what withholds (restrains) that he might be revealed in his time
…until he be taken out of the way.
And then that wicked shall be revealed.
Whom the Lord shall consume with the brightness of His coming?
1) if the Spirit of God is the restrainer that restrains…the one who withholds …until the Spirit of God is taken out of the way …then what or who reveals; uncovers, makes manifest or reveals in “And then that wicked one, that man of sin is revealed”? If the Spirit of God is the one restraining to be taken out of the way …then what good is “and then that man of sin is revealed” when there is no light?
Which leads to another question. If the Spirit of God is the restrainer taken out of the way, then why is the Spirit of God the One coming where His presence and brightness consumes and destroys that man of sin revealed? Is God taking Himself out of the way and coming in brightness at the same time?
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
My question concerning: now you know what withholds (restrains) that he might be revealed in his time
…until he be taken out of the way.
And then that wicked shall be revealed.
Whom the Lord shall consume with the brightness of His coming?
1) if the Spirit of God is the restrainer that restrains…the one who withholds …until the Spirit of God is taken out of the way …then what or who reveals; uncovers, makes manifest or reveals in “And then that wicked one, that man of sin is revealed”? If the Spirit of God is the one restraining to be taken out of the way …then what good is “and then that man of sin is revealed” when there is no light?
Which leads to another question. If the Spirit of God is the restrainer taken out of the way, then why is the Spirit of God the One coming where His presence and brightness consumes and destroys that man of sin revealed? Is God taking Himself out of the way and coming in brightness at the same time?
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
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Then why does John who wrote revelation and the only writer in the bible to mention the word antichrist name them and describe them differently?
Sun worship. Not a lost art.
The almost numberless forms of sun worship were practiced in Canaan. In the practice of these fearful abominations they had so corrupted themselves that in the expressive figure of the Scripture, the very earth had grown so sick that it was compelled to vomit out the filthy inhabitants. "The land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants." Leviticus 18:25. All of this the God of heaven taught his people to renounce. "Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: (for all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled): that the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you. For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people. Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the Lord your God." Leviticus 18:26-30. 13
In all these prohibitions the people were taught to shun as the terrible plague that it was, every suggestion of the evil influences of the worship of the sun. They were to break down all the sun-images and carved stocks—groves—that might be found anywhere in all the land which the Lord had given them. See Exodus 23:24; 33:13, 14.
In yet another and most comprehensive way the Lord taught his people to shun every indication of the worship of the sun. The devotees of the sun worshiped with their faces toward the east. When God established his worship with the children of Israel in the very midst of the sun worshiping nations round about, at first a sanctuary was built and afterwards a temple, where he dwelt by the glory of his presence. To the door of this sanctuary every form of sacrifice and offering was to be brought, and there they were to worship. And the door of that sanctuary (the temple also) was always toward the east, in order that all who would sacrifice to Jehovah and worship him, would in so doing turn their backs upon the sun and its worship; and that whoever joined in the worship of the sun, had first to turn his back upon Jehovah.
Through the periods of the judges there were lapses into sun worship among the children of Israel, but they were restored to the worship of the Lord, and by the influence of Samuel and David, and Solomon in his early days, the whole nation was separated from sun worship in all its forms, and united in the pure worship of Jehovah. Yet in his later years Solomon turned from the Lord, and "loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites; of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love. And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart. For it came to pass when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father. For Solomon went after Ashtaroth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. And Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord and went not fully after the Lord, as did David his father. Then did Solomon build a high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods".
The almost numberless forms of sun worship were practiced in Canaan. In the practice of these fearful abominations they had so corrupted themselves that in the expressive figure of the Scripture, the very earth had grown so sick that it was compelled to vomit out the filthy inhabitants. "The land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants." Leviticus 18:25. All of this the God of heaven taught his people to renounce. "Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: (for all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled): that the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you. For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people. Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the Lord your God." Leviticus 18:26-30. 13
In all these prohibitions the people were taught to shun as the terrible plague that it was, every suggestion of the evil influences of the worship of the sun. They were to break down all the sun-images and carved stocks—groves—that might be found anywhere in all the land which the Lord had given them. See Exodus 23:24; 33:13, 14.
In yet another and most comprehensive way the Lord taught his people to shun every indication of the worship of the sun. The devotees of the sun worshiped with their faces toward the east. When God established his worship with the children of Israel in the very midst of the sun worshiping nations round about, at first a sanctuary was built and afterwards a temple, where he dwelt by the glory of his presence. To the door of this sanctuary every form of sacrifice and offering was to be brought, and there they were to worship. And the door of that sanctuary (the temple also) was always toward the east, in order that all who would sacrifice to Jehovah and worship him, would in so doing turn their backs upon the sun and its worship; and that whoever joined in the worship of the sun, had first to turn his back upon Jehovah.
Through the periods of the judges there were lapses into sun worship among the children of Israel, but they were restored to the worship of the Lord, and by the influence of Samuel and David, and Solomon in his early days, the whole nation was separated from sun worship in all its forms, and united in the pure worship of Jehovah. Yet in his later years Solomon turned from the Lord, and "loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites; of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love. And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart. For it came to pass when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father. For Solomon went after Ashtaroth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. And Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord and went not fully after the Lord, as did David his father. Then did Solomon build a high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods".
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