new version of OSAS?
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Interesting that Paul in Romans in chapter 1 and chapter 16 speaks of 'obedience to the faith' and 'the obedience of faith'.
This is of course a long way from any supposed idea of earning salvation by works.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
Does God, by His Authority, Save a man, Against the mans Own Want, Will, Authority...
To Be Made Saved?
Taken
Well-Known Member
By and Through what God Offers, Gives...
And man "chooses" to Take.
In the beginning, God Offered and Gave Adam "Gods Word".
Adam Choose to Take, some of what God Offered. We note when God brought the animals to Adam to name, and Adam "chose" to Name the animals.
Adam Chose to NOT Take Gods Word, when God Offered and Gave Adam warning to Not eat of a particular Tree.
Adam Chose to NOT Take Gods Word, when God Offered and Gave the Tree of Life for Adam TO eat, and Adam chose NOT to eat of the Tree of Life.
Freewill is mans authority to choose what is the mans will.
Men Choose, to Hear Gods Word, or NOT.
Men Choose, to Do What is Gods Word, or NOT.
Anybody can “ hear” the Gospel.....Lest God “ open your heart” it will fall upon deaf ears.....
Check out the story of Lydia , the Seller Of Purple In Acts 16...... ( God “ opened her heart “ to not only “hear” it, but he opened her heart to “ Believe” it....This is in full agreement with the Truth Of this Statement — “ Nobody comes to God unless the Spirit draw him” ......it seems that God has the initiative when it comes to getting Saved—— only HE can bless one with “ ears to hear and eyes to see”......or in other words, the Opening Of a Heart.......
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Taken
Well-Known Member
TO and OF, can be tricky.
Paul's preaching, was often the same as Jesus'. A mix of people.
Some already OF the Faith and listening.
Some obedient TO the faith, simply by making at point to go, and be among the crowd of listeners.
The first several verses of Romans 1, reveals the men in Rome who are OF the Faith (already believing) and others who are obedient TO the Faith, (who came to hear).
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
Point...was mans FREEWILL...anyone can Hear or Not.
You are making the Point of Gods Works.
Any and all things that God does is by His authority.
Nobody gives God any authority. For He is the source of it. What authority you think man have, is only what man received from God. And when God gives, it does not mean God cease to not have said given authority.
<<<Does God, by His Authority, Save a man, Against the mans Own Want, Will, Authority...
To Be Made Saved?>>>
God saves man according to His will, pleasure, purpose, and divine nature. Needless to say, He has that power and authority.
Regarding your question, you have already been invited by @Blood Bought 1953, to check out the story of Lydia in Acts 16, how she was saved by God. And after checking that out, please tell us what you get to see there regarding man’s free will and God’s authority.
Tong
R3806
<<<By and Through what God Offers, Gives...
And man "chooses" to Take.>>>
Yes, man do have a choice. But what choice he have is only what choice is real to him. Meaning, one could only believe or not believe the gospel when he hears the gospel. Now, when the gospel comes to him, he could only believe or not believe what he gets to understand of the gospel. I think you know that the gospel is from God and is about the things of the Spirit of God. And I believe you have read Paul said that the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Now, considering that, what becomes of free will or having a choice? Unless God quickens the spirit of the natural man, opening his spiritual eyes and ears, he will not really understand the gospel. Now, we see people hear the gospel, and some receive it and some don’t, some believe and some don’t, isn’t it? Have you wondered how could some reject such an amazing grace? Again, check out the story of Lydia. So, let me ask again why or how was it that you get to choose to believe God? Do you think that came to be without God’s working in you such as He had with Lydia?
Tong
R3807
Amen.
It is God who saves, according to His will, purpose, pleasure, and divine nature.
Tong
R3808
At a deep level, it was because of his faith that Abraham was justified. This is also a central message of Romans and Galatians with their strong themes of justification.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Sometimes what strangles and holds people is that we are in bondage of our ideals.
Therefore those Ideals have to be broken down.
Which is a point I am making here.....
Somethings have been passed down...that have never been examined, and have even been taken out of context....
Therefore many churches make converts but not disciples.
But interesting How Jesus says: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Matthew 28:19
So how are they to teach?
By baptizing
I believe when there is a command to repent and believe the Gospel....when you do such you obey the command to repent and believe.
But with the father of faith...we need to go back and read....which I will do...understanding that God told Abraham to walk before Him blameless and He would make a covenant with Him.........If Abraham walked in the path of righteousness ....then...a covenant then would be made.....so doesn't that mean Abraham was obedient to the command to walk b4 God Blameless sense the Covenant was eventually made with Abraham?....therefore to believe is to obey....
It's spiritual.....
Abraham believed with intent to follow...
And that was enough...for God to count Him righteous..
The key question though...is did it say Abraham was justified so He could have heaven when He died.....? Or was He justified for things concerning the life He was then living.
Taken
Well-Known Member
No dispute.
By Gods Authority, Will, Pleasure, God Himself
"MADE" man to have Freewill...
Freewill IS mans ability to Freely Choose.
A man Freely Choosing God, or NOT Choosing God: IS a man exercising his own individual (power/authority) TO CHOOSE.
You are implying, WITHOUT a mans...
Freewill, Authority, Okay, Agreement, Consent...
THAT God Himself WILL "By HIS AUTHORITY" Force a man to Choose God.
Uh, no.
I Already established that. Expressly noting God MADE man to HAVE FREEWILL.
Never said, Gods Authority ceases.
Sure He does, never said otherwise.
Before my life time, God Offered TO THE WHOLE WORLD, Freewill, To Choose God, or NOT.
And God expressly revealed How a man CAN (according to Gods Way, ie terms) choose God.
And God Promised, that ANY man WHO expressly chooses God according to His WAY, God WILL Save that man....which IS expressly According to His WILL.
And seemingly necessary to repeat...
God gave man the authority to FREELY CHOOSE God or Not.
Tong
R3806[/QUOTE]
Thank you, what I am trying to challenge is Osaser's ideals about being Justified once...
Because of how many were evangelized...to trust what Jesus did as the Foundation....in order[in the way they see it]to have heaven when they die..
Although heaven when you die is important.. and what Jesus did is important...
The Foundation is....Trusting Who He is....
The Son of God...with the intent to follow.
Another words....if He is your savior....should not He be also your Lord?
I speak of myself and to many others evangelized as I was in this way:
Do you believe Jesus died for your sins and arose from the dead then you are saved .
That was the Gospel preached to me. But in Mark chapter 1 it spells out the Good news.
In verse 15
Jesus preached the Gospel of the kingdom.
"....The Kingdom of God is at hand."
Therefore what the disciple were preaching is what Jesus did so that they would trust Him as one who has say over everything. [As Lord, Master, ruler, creator of all things....etc
Therefore the Kingdom of the heavens is now available to enter on earth accepting the King for who God pronounce and did Miracles through. "Jesus".......
That means life in the kingdom we can live by now....this is how we through Christ destroy the works of the devil, and redeeming the body......Romans 8...there's more but you know this stuff....my phone doesn't want to type....
Point is the foundation is Christ....not what He did....What He did emphasized who He was....and where we can receive forgiveness and everything else we need.
Many OSASers start off with Justification...and link justification with regeneration....and there is the problem...
....Being born is a matter of...Believing who Jesus is.......The Eunich was baptized after believing Christ was the son of God....
So does forgiveness of Sin [justification] come before Regeneration? I DON'T THINK SO...
ANYWAY I SAID TOO MUCH...
PEACE AND BLESSINGS TO YOU
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I don't believe in baptismal regeneration, anyway; I confess I have not read all the posts on this thread, so I don't necessarily understand where ppl are coming from...
WELL I am not talking....about...Baptism in that light.......nor 4 that purpose.....what I was tipping off to was.....what baptism is said to mean......In my opinion....people take on Baptism after they believed a certain teaching....also Baptism has different meanings.....depending one the context.
As I believe the so called "great commission "
I do not believe that is referring to water there. The Baptism in the red sea...the Israelites never got touched by the water...
Anyway...just some thoughts...I am studying.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Pretty Clear. Paul and Timothy, on the sabbath went out from a city they had been staying in (during their travels), to a river side, to pray.
When they arrived at the river side there was a woman there, named Lydia, (who sold purple things in the city). Lydia worshipped God. Paul and Timothy sat and talk with Lydia. ( I can presume Paul and Timothy talked with her ABOUT Jesus Christ, since that is what Paul agreed with Jesus he would do, and Timothy agree with Paul that is what he would do). Lydia we learn, was Baptized.
* Nothing says Lydia was forced to worship God, but she did Worship God.
* Nothing says Lydia rejected what Paul and Timothy was telling her.
* Every indication is Lydia FREELY CHOSE, by her own Consent, her free will authority TO Consent, to give her life to the Lord God and receive the Offering of His Baptism, His Conversion.
Act 16
[13] And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
[14] And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
[15] And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
You are hung up on "authority".
Every man WHO, Freely willfully, consents, agrees, IS Authorizing God to DO HIS WORKS, He Offered He WOULD DO....
IF a man Consents.
Men require your "WRITTEN" authorization,
To AGREEMENTS, CONTRACTS, CONSENTS...
(BEFORE, they are oblidged to DO what they Offer... Employment, Banking, Attorney, etc.)
God Requires your "WORD" authorization,
(BEFORE, He is oblidged to DO what He Offered...Forgiveness, Salvation, Quickening, etc.)
Taken
Well-Known Member
Born Again and DO NOT SIN, Verified with Scripture, already posted.
What I did not say is what you said in your post # 4099
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