new version of OSAS?

[Corlove13]

Read this passage carefully

Rom 5:8-10 [8] but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. [9] Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath [of God]. [10] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

Willard notes that modern translations of the Bible have added the words “of God” after the word “wrath” in v9. The reason for this seems to be that the Greek “3709. ὀργή órgē” was (incorrectly) translated “wrath” in the first place! The word’s primary meaning is “desire” or “excitement of the mind”. Paul began this section of his address to the Romans by saying “Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace through our Lord Jesus Christ.” So here in v9 he’s simply reaffirming this message; that those in Christ won’t be overcome by worldly desires for things of the world, but they will have peace – contentment, assurance, satisfaction because Christ has saved us from such desires.

......

Read this passage carefully

Rom 5:8-10 [8] but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. [9] Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath [of God]. [10] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

Willard notes that modern translations of the Bible have added the words “of God” after the word “wrath” in v9. The reason for this seems to be that the Greek “3709. ὀργή órgē” was (incorrectly) translated “wrath” in the first place! The word’s primary meaning is “desire” or “excitement of the mind”. Paul began this section of his address to the Romans by saying “Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace through our Lord Jesus Christ.” So here in v9 he’s simply reaffirming this message; that those in Christ won’t be overcome by worldly desires for things of the world, but they will have peace – contentment, assurance, satisfaction because Christ has saved us from such desires.

Redeem the Time

Orge-wrath>from 3713; properly, desire [as a reaching forth or excitement of the
mind] (by analogy)

 

[Cooper]

Scripture is all I have, it's either good enough, or it isn't.


I know you are sincere in you beliefs and so am I......I could just as easily say the same thing that you said here and mean it with every fiber of my being.....well- versed, serious students of the Bible can disagree.....this is the only thing proven here, I think...

All of my debating foes bring up Great Points! I understand ALL of them— that is because I used to agree with them! I think that my views have matured as time has gone by as I have kept nose in the Bible and have listened to great God- Sent Teachers Of the Word....of course , my foes see what I call “progress” as “ Error”.....

Who can say with absolute certainty ? Here is what I “ DO” know.....
As time goes by, “ HE” keeps getting Bigger and Bigger and “ I” keep getting Smaller and Smaller.....I think that I am headed in the Right Direction with this Reality....I think that my Faith in Jesus is greater than that Of my detractors .....I ask you..who has the most Faith in Jesus ? The man who says “ Jesus Saves.Period! “ or the man who says, “ Jesus Saves—- BUT “ you” gotta do this , or you gotta do that, or you gotta do the other thing?” Obviously , the former.....and their is no boasting to simply declare where I am in my Christian Walk....I think that my Group is farther ahead in that Walk than others ...no brag....just fact...

To me, the ultimate “ meat” in Christianity is to be able to completely and absolutely REST in Paul’s Gospel Of Grace, Given to Him by Jesus.....Im so impressed with what God and Jesus have done, I barely have the time or the inclination to look at what “I” do.....I constantly get “ closer” to God, because the Closer you get to God , you don’t see yourself as becoming “ better —-the closer you get to God, the farther away you see yourself from Him.....are you “ Close” to God? Some are actually going In reverse and don’t know it.....what John the Baptist Said was true of us all ....” He must INCREASE and I must DECREASE....” If your Doctrine does not get you headed in that direction....it ain’t the correct one.....again I say it....it’s NOTHING but the Blood.....don’t find yourself on the+Wrong Side Of that argument ...God Bless....
..

God never gave us a licence to live in sin.
.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I think that my Faith in Jesus is greater than that Of my detractors

After being born again I started out in a charismatic Full Gospel church. They thought having a dramatic spiritual gift and operating in it was the sign of great faith. Then I learned that the sign of great faith is your obedience to God's commands. Using that measure, do you still think that your faith in Jesus is greater than your detractors?

"...the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." Galatians 5:6​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

than that Of my detractors

Oh, by the way. Who are your detractors? I'm not aware of anybody here that says works are added to Jesus to earn salvation. If you give me names I'll talk to them about this.

 

[Corlove13]

...

Oh, by the way. Who are your detractors? I'm not aware of anybody here that says works are added to Jesus to earn salvation. If you give me names I'll talk to them about this.

Jesus died an rose
It is through His death we are reconciled
And continually protected, and delivered as we "live" by His life.

To live by His life...is definitely not earning but an honor to serve...For the Joy of the Lord is my strength

Thing is Life was Given to us.....When we believed who He Is. [His life is our salvation]
But if you do not live it out will it deliver you.

See but what OSAS can't see is we are not speaking of Justification as all of Salvation..

What many see is Justified for heaven when they die...but not to be Justified so that you can have fellowship now.


The Ark was their Salvation
But if no one Got in it, would it save them during the wrath.

Just as the rules parents give are meant to protect you....But if a child breaks the rules will they remain under that protection?

 

[Corlove13]

1 John 5:11

And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Where is this life? .. >....>....> IN His Son...

 

[Corlove13]

1 John 5:11

And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Where is this life? .. >....>....> IN His Son...

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

 

[Corlove13]

...

Jesus died an rose
It is through His death we are reconciled
And continually protected, and delivered as we "live" by His life.

To live by His life...is definitely not earning but an honor to serve...For the Joy of the Lord is my strength

Thing is Life was Given to us.....When we believed who He Is. [His life is our salvation]
But if you do not live it out will it deliver you.

See but what OSAS can't see is we are not speaking of Justification as all of Salvation..

What many see is Justified for heaven when they die...but not to be Justified so that you can have fellowship now.


The Ark was their Salvation
But if no one Got in it, would it save them during the wrath.

Just as the rules parents give are meant to protect you....But if a child breaks the rules will they remain under that protection?

Read 1 Peter 3:21 now, and what do you see?

 

[Corlove13]

Read 1 Peter 3:21 now, and what do you see?

That passage has always spurred my thoughts...
And I have a take on it.....
But I guess I should be able to explain first why the Old Covenant could never purify the conscience.

Then move here...in 1Peter 3:21 and 1John 1:7

Hebrews 9:14, NIV: "How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!"

This is up for discussion..
My Other question is to enter the New Cov. Do you need to be Justified First?

 

[mailmandan]

In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). NOTE: The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY the wicked in Noah's day came in contract with the water and they all perished.

 

[Cooper]

1 John 5:11

And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Where is this life? .. >....>....> IN His Son...

he that hath not the Son, has not life. So hold firm.
.

 

[Cooper]

Read 1 Peter 3:21 now, and what do you see?

We are saved through and by the resurrected Christ.
.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

the man who says, “ Jesus Saves—- BUT “ you” gotta do this , or you gotta do that, or you gotta do the other thing?”

Peter says we are to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of our sins. It's something we are told to do to have our sins forgiven. Is this adding to Jesus? Why, or why not?

“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins." Acts 2:38

​

 

[Cooper]

...This is up for discussion..
My Other question is to enter the New Cov. Do you need to be Justified First?

Justification
A forensic term, opposed to condemnation.
As regards its nature, it is the judicial act of God, by which he pardons all the sins of those who believe in Christ, and accounts, accepts, and treats them as righteous in the eye of the law, i.e., as conformed to all its demands. In addition to the pardon (q.v.) of sin, justification declares that all the claims of the law are satisfied in respect of the justified. It is the act of a judge and not of a sovereign. The law is not relaxed or set aside, but is declared to be fulfilled in the strictest sense; and so the person justified is declared to be entitled to all the advantages and rewards arising from perfect obedience to the law (Rom_5:1-10).

It proceeds on the imputing or crediting to the believer by God himself of the perfect righteousness, active and passive, of his Representative and Surety, Jesus Christ (Rom_10:3-9). Justification is not the forgiveness of a man without righteousness, but a declaration that he possesses a righteousness which perfectly and for ever satisfies the law, namely, Christ's righteousness (2Co_5:21; Rom_4:6-8).

The sole condition on which this righteousness is imputed or credited to the believer is faith in or on the Lord Jesus Christ. Faith is called a “condition,” not because it possesses any merit, but only because it is the instrument, the only instrument by which the soul appropriates or apprehends Christ and his righteousness (Rom_1:17; Rom_3:25, Rom_3:26; Rom_4:20, Rom_4:22; Php_3:8-11; Gal_2:16).

The act of faith which thus secures our justification secures also at the same time our sanctification (q.v.); and thus the doctrine of justification by faith does not lead to licentiousness (Rom_6:2-7). Good works, while not the ground, are the certain consequence of justification (Rom_6:14; Rom_7:6). (See GALATIANS, EPISTLE TO.) (Source Easton's Dictionary)

Those who deny Christ in any way at all, are in for a shock.
.

 

[michaelvpardo]

[QUOTE="TheslightestID, post: 1043302,
I think you probably just made up the following, but for the moment you have the benefit of the doubt, and remember, clear scripture, just like I gave you.[/QUOTE]
Just wanted to drop a few verses to think about that might be helpful. Proof verses, but not really proof.

The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord,
Like the rivers of water;
He turns it wherever He wishes.
2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, But the Lord weighs the hearts. Proverbs 21:1-2
This verse is specifically about "the king" but shows that the Lord is able to change the heart and does so at His discretion. Of course, it doesn't say that He does this to everyone. In the book of Exodus, you'll find examples of this with the pharaoh, but you need to recognize the difference between Pharaoh hardening his heart and God hardening Pharaoh's heart.
’ 16 Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Although I have cast them far off among the Gentiles, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet I shall be a little sanctuary for them in the countries where they have gone.” ’ 17 Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.” ’ 18 And they will go there, and they will take away all its detestable things and all its abominations from there. 19 Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, 20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God. Ezekiel 11:16-20
In context, this passage is about the millennial kingdom, the restoration of the nation of Israel, but most concede that it describes the new birth, and it clearly speaks of an unconditional promise from God to change His people's hearts for them, to turn them to obedience. A proof verse, but not proof.
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” Jeremiah 31:31-34
This parallel passage from Jeremiah describes the new covenant replacing the old and the means by which God accomplishes His purposes in His people. There's no other new covenant than the one we have and the epistles make it pretty clear that the gentiles receive grace through the new covenant through recieving the same promise.
All these things are the work and will of God, not man. God accomplishes them all. That's why it's a new and perfect covenant. It in no way relies on the will of man.
Take some time. Chew on these verses for they are good and pleasing and righteous. Speak to the Lord and ask Him to help your faith, to strengthen you, to build you, to help you to stand. God is faithful, even when we aren't.
Jesus said to him, “If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.”
Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”
When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, “Deaf and dumb spirit, I command you, come out of him and enter him no more!” Then the spirit cried out, convulsed him greatly, and came out of him. And he became as one dead, so that many said, “He is dead.” But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose. Mark 9:23-27

 

[TheslightestID]

Ees no my job, man. (Now I'm having fun). Hasta la vista y via con dios, mi amigo.
Seriously, I've posted pages and pages on this thread, on this topic, and while the Lord doesn't mind repeating Himself to make Himself clear, I think it's a complete waste of my time.
Everything in scripture other than history is a matter of faith. Accepting scripture as true is a matter of faith. Belief in God is a matter of faith. Faith is not about what we see, but what can't be seen. It is impossible to prove faith. Faith can only be demonstrated by our works. How do you prove the meaning of something spiritual when that meaning is understood by faith. You can't think or reason your way into the kingdom, you have to hear and believe the word of God. Of course, God never required blind faith, and God calls us to use our reason, but faith isn't dependent on reason or intellect, or those with limited mental capacity, like an old friend of mine, brain damaged from oxygen deprivation at birth, wouldn't be able to hear the word and respond in faith. God is not an intellectual snob and saving faith is as simple as the open minded innocence of a child. Who gave men the right to complicate such divine truth?

Thanks just the same.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Thanks just the same.

Sorry, I was just tired. I'm 64 years old and working on my house and property with no extra hands to help. It's just a small house in the midst of a few acres of wood and stony ground, but it represents most of my retirement funds and for this season, my world. I woke up still feeling a bit weary and I have to go shopping for necessities, but the Lord wants me to be kinder to people, not just the local wildlife.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Sounds like you are out of responses and will continue to use that statement in order to cover up the fact.

I use that statement because it is true...we are in a “ Mexican Standoff”...... you got your stuff and I got mine.....you think you are right and I think that I am right.....nobody ever changes anybody minds in theses forums....all we can do is present our best cases using Scriptures....that is what we do—- that is all that we “ can” do......viewers are free to choose what they agree with....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

After being born again I started out in a charismatic Full Gospel church. They thought having a dramatic spiritual gift and operating in it was the sign of great faith. Then I learned that the sign of great faith is your obedience to God's commands. Using that measure, do you still think that your faith in Jesus is greater than your detractors?

"...the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." Galatians 5:6​

I say “ Jesus Plus NOTHING” .........I have trusted Jesus ALONE for My Eternal Fate and NOTHING else...Not ONE SINGLE THING that I do other than Rest in the Gospel....”Nothing of myself I bring, only to the Cross I cling..... My Jesus is not only ESSENTIAL for Salvation—— He is also ADEQUATE for Salvation.....

Your Jesus is Essential , He’s just not Adequate.....it’s Jesus PLUS repenting of all your sins before you die and/ or the absolute absence of “ Willful Sins” ,due to an inexcusable ignorance about Heb10....

Jesus Plus Nothing ( my Doctrine) vs. Jesus Plus some other things ( Your Doctrine , which contains false, perverted Additions to Paul’s Gospel)

It’s obvious who Trusts Jesus the most....I say Jesus Plus Nothing —- you say Jesus, Plus MY part....kinda making yourself the “ Co- Savior”....

My Obedience is very good....the thing that drives my Obedience is a love for God .....If Love is not the Engine that drives your Obedience — a love you will not get until you REST in His Finished Work Of The Cross—- you are wasting your time .....you do them only because you think that if you “ don’t” do them, you will drop into Hell....they are “ Dead Works” .....ANY Obedience is better than none , but God is looking for Trust and Love.....Love God and the Obedience will come naturally....that is what I do....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Peter says we are to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of our sins. It's something we are told to do to have our sins forgiven. Is this adding to Jesus? Why, or why not?

“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins." Acts 2:38

​

Jesus told the Paralytic man that He healed....
“ I have seen your Faith— your sins are forgiven” Works for me.....