Will you be caught up in the rapture or left-behind??

[ewq1938]

In my studies of the writings of Moses, I have found that he has great skill with regard to brevity, saying a lot with a few words.

Take a look at this section here for example.

12 Then the two men said to Lot, “Whom else do you have here? A son-in-law and your sons and daughters, and whomever you have in the city, bring them out of the place; 13 for we are about to destroy this place, because their outcry has become so great before the Lord that the Lord has sent us to destroy it.” 14 So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, and said, “Up, get out of this place, for the Lord is destroying the city.” But he appeared to his sons-in-law to be joking.​

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15 When morning dawned, the angels urged Lot, saying, “Up, take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away in the punishment of the city.” ​

Not only did Lot have two daughters living at home with him, according to verse 12, he also had a son-in-law living at home with him.

I see zero evidence of an additional two daughters. They lived in the city and at some point were with their father when it was time to leave.

​

23 The sun had risen over the earth when Lot came to Zoar. 24 Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah from the Lord out of heaven, 25 and He overthrew those cities, and all the surrounding area, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground. 26 But Lot’s wife, from behind him, looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.​

​

During the escape, Lot begged the Angels to allow him and his family to enter Zoar for protection. Moses tells us in verse 23 that Lot came to Zoar. Moses tells us in verse 26 that Lot's wife looked back "from behind him." What does he mean?

It means he was in front of her when they were walking away and she looked back. This means Lot did not see her look back since she was behind him.

Here is the picture I get. Lot and his family are headed for the mountains for protection. Lot realizes that in his old age and with his wife and daughters, he is afraid that they won't make it to the mountains in time. So lot asks the Angel if the town of Zoar would suffice. Moses tells us in verse 23 that Lot successfully arrived at Zoar at sunrise. In verse 26 Moses says that Lot's wife was "behind him" meaning that she was still in transit; she hadn't yet arrived in Zoar. She fell behind and therefore she was still in the blast zone (so to speak.) She stopped to look back, which is why she lagged behind Lot.

Does that make sense?

No. They left as a family group. It was normal for the man to lead but he wouldn't have been very far ahead of his wife or daughters. She also had to have been sinning when looking back, looking back in a sinful sense and mourning her daughetrs doesn't deserve when God did to her. Obviously she looked back in a sinful way that angered God.

 

[Timtofly]

the major purpose of the 70th week of Daniel is to prepare Israel as a nation to receive Jesus as Messiah.

If you accept this point, then why was not the 3.5 years as Messiah/Christ a part of that preparation?

The last half as Prince/King will end the 70th week. The only reason the week was not completed in the first century was that Israel, to whom the promise was given, was put on hold for the last 1993 years for the fulness of the Gentiles.

The reason it is Jacob's trouble is because the church and Holy Spirit are removed. Jesus as King is working directly in person with Israel just like He did as Messiah. It is trouble and tribulation because God is "cleaning house" and getting rid of the trash at the same time. This comfortable lifestyle in Adam's dead corruptible flesh is coming to an end, and it is not pretty. To the ungodly, righteousness is abhorrent.

Jesus was on earth preparing them as Messiah. He will, again be on earth as King with His angels at the Second Coming judging them, to prepare for the Day of the Lord.

 

[Timtofly]

I see zero evidence of an additional two daughters. They lived in the city and at some point were with their father when it was time to leave.

Lot had at least 4 daughters, and perhaps more. Two were not married and the rest were married. Lot lost his wife and married daughters and his sons in law. Lot said that the two daughters at home had not been given away in marriage.

"Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you."

Do you think Lot was going to go to his married daughter's houses and break up their marriages to offer them to the men of the city? It was not that he only had two daughters, about to get married. A son in law, means the contract was already accomplished, and his other daughters were already married.

"And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake."

So we have Lot, his wife, and 2 unmarried daughters. That is 4 people. Abraham stopped at 10. Abraham was 6 people short. Did Abraham think that Lot had a family of 10, which would mean 3 more daughters, and their husbands? The angels asked about a son. But no son was mentioned. Or did Abraham think that not even Lot was righteous, so Abraham did not even ask for the single righteous, Lot's sake. Or even 5, Lot's immediate family of wife and daughters. When Lot was rescued, after Sodom and surrounding cities had been attacked, only women were mentioned. It seems that Lot only had a wife and daughters. How many, we are not told, but he had more than 1 son in law. He could have had 8 daughters. Surely his daughters would have not succumbed to the world? However, we see that even Lot's wife could not stand to leave Sodom behind. And obviously he could not convince his married daughter's nor their husbands to leave. For not ever having any sons, yet at that point, his legacy sure ended with 2 nations that were still thorns in the side of Israel, and led them into unrighteousness.

"I have heard the reproach of Moab, and the revilings of the children of Ammon, whereby they have reproached my people, and magnified themselves against their border. Therefore as I live, saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Surely Moab shall be as Sodom, and the children of Ammon as Gomorrah, even the breeding of nettles, and saltpits, and a perpetual desolation: the residue of my people shall spoil them, and the remnant of my people shall possess them. This shall they have for their pride, because they have reproached and magnified themselves against the people of the Lord of hosts."

"Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and my judgments, as did David his father."

 

[CadyandZoe]

I see zero evidence of an additional two daughters. They lived in the city and at some point were with their father when it was time to leave.

I gave you evidence. Perhaps you don't see it. What does the term "son-in-law" imply if not a daughter?

It means he was in front of her when they were walking away and she looked back. This means Lot did not see her look back since she was behind him.

Again, Moses writes that Lot made it to Zoar. Thus, the phrase "behind him" indicates that Lot's wife had not yet reached Zoar.

No. They left as a family group. It was normal for the man to lead but he wouldn't have been very far ahead of his wife or daughters. She also had to have been sinning when looking back, looking back in a sinful sense and mourning her daughetrs doesn't deserve when God did to her. Obviously she looked back in a sinful way that angered God.

Maybe what you say is true under normal circumstances when a family is out taking a gentle walk. Lot's wife wasn't acting sinfully at all. Rather, she was acting foolishly instead.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Again, Moses writes that Lot made it to Zoar. Thus, the phrase "behind him" indicates that Lot's wife had not yet reached Zoar.

Hello Cady,

I thought this commentary would fit with your general discourse with ewq.

But his wife looked back from behind him — Herein she disobeyed an express command. Probably she hankered after her house and goods in Sodom, and was loath to leave them. Christ intimates this to be her sin, Luke 17:31-32; she too much regarded her stuff.

When he says, remember Lot’s wife, those that seek to save their life lose it and those that give it up save it. She looked back and her treasures were where her heart was, in Sodom.

 

[The Light]

But you forget the harvests are not prescribed feasts of Israel.. Passover and Pentecost are, but not because of the barley and wheat.

The feasts of God show God's plan. There will be two harvests and Jesus will set up His kingdom on the earth.

Jesus left the earth visibly and physically, HIs return will be the same way. Calling them return and advent is disingenuous. advent and coming are the same. they are synonyms of one another.

The facts say Jesus will return to the clouds for a harvest at the 6th seal when He will send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth BEFORE the wrath of God. Here is that coming where Jesus remains in the clouds BEFORE the wrath of God

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

But you assume there can only be one time when the sun is darkened and the moon gives not her light!

No sir we can prove that is not so. However, I do assume that there is only one time that the stars fall from heaven. That time is when there is war in heaven. That happens before the wrath of God at the 6th seal.

You forget Joel calls the tribulation the Day of the Lord as do many OT prophecies.

No. Joel nor any other prophet call the tribulation the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is wrath not tribulation. The tribulation is OVER at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

If you can find a verse where Joel calls the tribulation, the Day of the Lord, I would like to see it.

The Day (or time) is terrible full of darkness and gloom and terror and called the time of Jacobs trouble. Jesus physical return is not a time of gloom and darkness but of restoration. the start of teh 70th week is the time of Jacobs trouble/The Day of the Lord.

The 70th week is NOT the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord begins after the 6th seal when the 1st trumpet sounds after the seventh seal is opened. The 70th week begins just prior to the 1st seal when a 7 year covenant is confirmed

the major purpose of the 70th week of Daniel is to prepare Israel as a nation to receive Jesus as Messiah.

Ex. 20:

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

Agreed. The 70th week is about the people of Daniel. This will not begin until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Studied under your Father. does that mean ytou are claiming like Paul and taught directly by God? Whom have you confirmed your teachings with as Paul did with the leadership of the church of his day.

Are you trying to tell me that God has taught you nothing? Everything you are learned is knowledge gained from others?

I have shown you that Jesus returns at the 6th seal for a harvest prior to the wrath of God. It is clearly marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. Jesus remains in the clouds at the 6th seal and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper as we see the great multitude in Revelation 7. I acknowledge that few understand this, and this is certainly not what is taught.

There are two raptures.......two harvests. The dead in Christ and the alive believers that remain are the barley and wheat harvest which is the grain harvest. Then God will open the eyes of part of Israel. That part is the seed of the woman. The woman is Israel, and her seed is the 12 tribes across the earth. The 144,000 are the first fruits of the second harvest. The second harvest will occur at the 6th seal. Only those of the nation of Israel, that flee to a place of protection and unbelievers will be on earth when the wrath of God is happening.

The fig tree has two harvests. Jacob had two brides.

 

[ewq1938]

I gave you evidence. Perhaps you don't see it. What does the term "son-in-law" imply if not a daughter?

But not 4 daughters. He only is written as having two.

Again, Moses writes that Lot made it to Zoar. Thus, the phrase "behind him" indicates that Lot's wife had not yet reached Zoar.

No, it only indicates that she was not in front of him. It doesn't specific distance. It would not be normal for a husband to be that far ahead of his family whom he is leading to safety.

Maybe what you say is true under normal circumstances when a family is out taking a gentle walk. Lot's wife wasn't acting sinfully at all. Rather, she was acting foolishly instead.

First you claimed she looked back in mourning, now she is acting foolishly? That's a step in the right direction but I think it lacks explaining why God would kill her and leave her children motherless and her husband a widow.

 

[CadyandZoe]

But not 4 daughters. He only is written as having two.

What I am suggesting is this. Moses has great skill in brevity and conciseness. When the angel says that Lot had two daughters and a son-in-law living at home, Moses is referring to two unmarried daughters and a married couple. The term son-in-law implies another daughter. And when Moses records that Lot went out to speak to other sons-in-law, he assumes the readers will understand that Lot's sons-in-law are living with his daughters.

No, it only indicates that she was not in front of him. It doesn't specific distance. It would not be normal for a husband to be that far ahead of his family whom he is leading to safety.

Granted. As I said earlier, what you say would be true under "normal" circumstances. But during a crisis situation, "normal" or "usual" is the first victim.

Let's put all the clues together: 1) Lot asks that the city of Zoar be spared so that he might escape to that city. The Angel agrees. 2) Moses says that Lot entered the city of Zoar. A place of safety. 3) Lot's wife is turned into a pillar of salt.

Given these three conditions, I conclude that Lot's wife didn't enter the city. If this is true, then the term "behind" refers to a place that Lot has already passed. She stopped to look back. She didn't proceed with her husband into Zoar, which is why she died.
.

First you claimed she looked back in mourning, now she is acting foolishly?

Yes, both are true at the same time. She wasn't foolish for mourning; she was foolish in that she hesitated rather than run.

That's a step in the right direction but I think it lacks explaining why God would kill her and leave her children motherless and her husband a widow.

Your answer depends on your standpoint. From a human standpoint, God didn't kill her, she killed herself.

Suppose a woman travels to the Grand Canyon and while she is standing on the edge of the canyon, she decides to take a "selfie." As she moves the camera around to get the best picture, she accidentally steps backward off the cliff. We don't usually say that God killed her; we say that she accidentally killed herself.

From a human perspective, Lot's wife killed herself. She was warned of the impending danger; and she was told that if she escaped to the city of Zoar, she would be safe there. But she hesitated too long and she became a victim of the destructive forces applied to Sodom. That being the case, her story became a cautionary tale, one that Jesus used to make his point.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If you accept this point, then why was not the 3.5 years as Messiah/Christ a part of that preparation?

Simply because it wasn't! The 69th week ended on what we call Palm Sunday, when Jesus entered Jerusalem on a colt. that was one week before His resurrection.

The facts say Jesus will return to the clouds for a harvest at the 6th seal when He will send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth BEFORE the wrath of God. Here is that coming where Jesus remains in the clouds BEFORE the wrath of God

Yes that is called the rapture, but nothing in Scripture demands it be at teh sixth seal. It could be as the 6th seal begins the 70th week of Daniel but it is not mandated by any verse, just peoples opinion.

No sir we can prove that is not so. However, I do assume that there is only one time that the stars fall from heaven. That time is when there is war in heaven. That happens before the wrath of God at the 6th seal.

So now you have the war in heaven where satan and his demons are cast out described in REv. 12 happening at Jesus return, and yet Rev. 12 says the jews flee to the desert for 3 1/2 years! If Jesus returns then why do they need to flee for 3 1/2 years. You are all over the map.

The 70th week is NOT the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord begins after the 6th seal when the 1st trumpet sounds after the seventh seal is opened. The 70th week begins just prior to the 1st seal when a 7 year covenant is confirmed

There is nothing in the first seal that shows the AC making a covenant with Israel. All it does show is the AC going to conquer. That is more in line with his rise to power as explained in Daniel . He conquers three kings and the other 7 give their allegiance to him. remember in order for the Ac to make a binding covenant with Israel, He h as to be in a position of power in order to enforce it if need be.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The feasts of God show God's plan. There will be two harvests and Jesus will set up His kingdom on the earth.

We will find out won't we.

The facts say Jesus will return to the clouds for a harvest at the 6th seal when He will send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth BEFORE the wrath of God. Here is that coming where Jesus remains in the clouds BEFORE the wrath of God

That is known as the rapture and has nothing to do with His 2nd coming! It is its own event not preceded by any biblical events. It could happen today or a thousand years from now!

Agreed. The 70th week is about the people of Daniel. This will not begin until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Well if you mean the full number of Gentiles entering the body of Christ? I agree. If you meannot until all gentiles get saved- then you are in error.

Are you trying to tell me that God has taught you nothing? Everything you are learned is knowledge gained from others?

I learn through th eHoly Spirit as He speaks through others. We are illuminated byt eh Spirit. but Ephesians 4 speaks very very very strongly for individual believers to be under the authority of Pastor/teachers for their maturity. If one is not under a pastor, they are rogue.

But once again where have you learned and to whom have you submitted your teachings to for validation as the Apostle Paul did?

There are two raptures.......two harvests. The dead in Christ and the alive believers that remain are the barley and wheat harvest which is the grain harvest. Then God will open the eyes of part of Israel. That part is the seed of the woman. The woman is Israel, and her seed is the 12 tribes across the earth. The 144,000 are the first fruits of the second harvest. The second harvest will occur at the 6th seal. Only those of the nation of Israel, that flee to a place of protection and unbelievers will be on earth when the wrath of God is happening.

YOu are pinning that all on demanding two harvests=two raptures. Taking a literal, then allegorizing it and then making doctrine from it is very dangerous my brother.

And no you have not shown me or anyone. You have declared so, but have yet to make your case that the wheat and barley harvests are allegorical for two raptures when the bible onl;y exsplicitly speaks of one. Your implication of two is based on very tenuous ground

 

[ewq1938]

Granted. As I said earlier, what you say would be true under "normal" circumstances. But during a crisis situation, "normal" or "usual" is the first victim.

I still don't see how or why Lot would arrive so much further ahead of his wife and daughters nor see any evidence for it. His wife was behind him, which is perfectly normal especially in this situation where they are scared etc.

Let's put all the clues together: 1) Lot asks that the city of Zoar be spared so that he might escape to that city. The Angel agrees. 2) Moses says that Lot entered the city of Zoar. A place of safety. 3) Lot's wife is turned into a pillar of salt.

Given these three conditions, I conclude that Lot's wife didn't enter the city. If this is true, then the term "behind" refers to a place that Lot has already passed. She stopped to look back. She didn't proceed with her husband into Zoar, which is why she died.

That's not why she died. It was the looking back that was why she died, not any failure to arrive somewhere with her husband.

.
Yes, both are true at the same time. She wasn't foolish for mourning; she was foolish in that she hesitated rather than run.

It isn't about lack of running either. It was only about her looking back and why she did, nothing else.

Your answer depends on your standpoint. From a human standpoint, God didn't kill her, she killed herself.

Looking back doesn't turn yourself into salt (death) God did that to punish her for looking back.

Gen 19:16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
Gen 19:17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.


Don't eat of that fruit, don't look behind thee...commands given and commands broken.

Suppose a woman travels to the Grand Canyon and while she is standing on the edge of the canyon, she decides to take a "selfie." As she moves the camera around to get the best picture, she accidentally steps backward off the cliff. We don't usually say that God killed her; we say that she accidentally killed herself.

Not related to Lot's wife death at all though. She didn't fall into a salt mine. God turned her into sale via a miracle only God can perform.

From a human perspective, Lot's wife killed herself. She was warned of the impending danger; and she was told that if she escaped to the city of Zoar, she would be safe there. But she hesitated too long and she became a victim of the destructive forces applied to Sodom.

Sorry, but not true at all. Fire destroyed Sodom not salt. She didn't kill herself but she did something wrong and God killed her because of that bad choice.

 

[07-07-07]

Food for thought: The first fruits of Israel, the 144,000 male virgins, will be caught up to God in the tribulation period; there will be many Saints in Israel at this time, but only the 144,000 are caught up (Raptured). Wouldn't it stand to reason that there will be a first fruits of the Church to be caught up at some point too, though the timing is unclear (Pre, mid, post)?

 

[07-07-07]

She looked back to mourn on her old life . The sorrow of the world worketh death .

I tend to believe this as well. I don't think a mere glance back caused Lot's wife to be turned into a pillar of salt.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Food for thought: The first fruits of Israel, the 144,000 male virgins, will be caught up to God in the tribulation period; there will be many Saints in Israel at this time, but only the 144,000 are caught up (Raptured). Wouldn't it stand to reason that there will be a first fruits of the Church to be caught up at some point too, though the timing is unclear (Pre, mid, post)?

Israel has already had first fruits. Pentecost is when the first fruits of Israel occurred. In every generation there has been and will be a remnant. these 144,000 are sealed! Sealing was for protection and service.

They may be raptured sometime in the mid trib period, but that is only an implication and not written. It is unwise to make an absolute declaration only on an iimplication.

 

[07-07-07]

Israel has already had first fruits. Pentecost is when the first fruits of Israel occurred. In every generation there has been and will be a remnant. these 144,000 are sealed! Sealing was for protection and service.

They may be raptured sometime in the mid trib period, but that is only an implication and not written. It is unwise to make an absolute declaration only on an iimplication.

The Scriptures refer to the 144,000 as the first fruits, and they are caught up (Raptured).

Revelation 14
[4] These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Scriptures refer to the 144,000 as the first fruits, and they are caught up (Raptured).

Revelation 14
[4] These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Which begs teh question--firstfruits of what?

Not of Jews being saved.
Not of Jews being raptured, for Jews will be part of the church when it is raptured.
Not teh first martyred, for chapter five shows others killed ahead of time.

Scripture does not answer as to the firstfruits unto God of what.

 

[07-07-07]

Which begs teh question--firstfruits of what?

Not of Jews being saved.
Not of Jews being raptured, for Jews will be part of the church when it is raptured.
Not teh first martyred, for chapter five shows others killed ahead of time.

Scripture does not answer as to the firstfruits unto God of what.

It's evident that they are the firstfruits of Israel, as there will be 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel.

 

[Timtofly]

Simply because it wasn't! The 69th week ended on what we call Palm Sunday, when Jesus entered Jerusalem on a colt. that was one week before His resurrection.

Yes that is called the rapture, but nothing in Scripture demands it be at teh sixth seal. It could be as the 6th seal begins the 70th week of Daniel but it is not mandated by any verse, just peoples opinion.

So now you have the war in heaven where satan and his demons are cast out described in REv. 12 happening at Jesus return, and yet Rev. 12 says the jews flee to the desert for 3 1/2 years! If Jesus returns then why do they need to flee for 3 1/2 years. You are all over the map.

There is nothing in the first seal that shows the AC making a covenant with Israel. All it does show is the AC going to conquer. That is more in line with his rise to power as explained in Daniel . He conquers three kings and the other 7 give their allegiance to him. remember in order for the Ac to make a binding covenant with Israel, He h as to be in a position of power in order to enforce it if need be.

The 69th week ended years before Jesus was born. Only Anna and Simeon were still alive from the generation that lived in the 69th week. Everyone else had no clue who the Messiah or Prince of the Jews even was. All had given up hope at some point, years before Jesus was born.

The 6th Seal is the Second Coming of Jesus to the Mount of Olives to finish the 70th week as the Prince to come.

No, the war in heaven is after the 5th Trumpet and first woe, because that is when those angels are loosed from the pit. By the time the 7th Trumpet is supposed to sound, those angels are attacking heaven itself.

There is no human AC. It is Satan who is handed the throne in Jerusalem in the midst of the week of days of the 7th Trumpet. There are 10 kings working with Satan. Can you tell which king is placed in a higher position than the others? None of them. They have no kingdom, and will never have one, because they are killed at Armageddon.

 

[Timtofly]

I tend to believe this as well. I don't think a mere glance back caused Lot's wife to be turned into a pillar of salt.

Seems obvious that if you are running as fast as you can, don't look behind you, you will stumble and fall.

She disobeyed God and looked back, she did not fall down, she turned into a piller of salt. The fire and brimstone that happened turned the whole area into salt.

 

[Timtofly]

Which begs teh question--firstfruits of what?

Not of Jews being saved.
Not of Jews being raptured, for Jews will be part of the church when it is raptured.
Not teh first martyred, for chapter five shows others killed ahead of time.

Scripture does not answer as to the firstfruits unto God of what.

Yes it does. The Millennium Kingdom. The church is not part of the earthly kingdom. Those gathered by Jesus as King after the Second Coming are who reign on earth. The church remains in Paradise until the New Jerusalem comes down in the NHNE.

The 144k are the firstfruits of the Second Coming and the Millennium Kingdom. The sheep and wheat are the remnants of Adam's dead corruptible flesh after the Second Coming. They are not the church.

The original disciples were the firstfruits of the NT church along with all those in Abraham's bosom. They have been enjoying Paradise since Resurrection Sunday. Multitudes by the tens of thousands have joined them over the last 1993 years. The church alive at the rapture are the last of the church gathered to Paradise. After that point it is all about the Millennium Kingdom.